rich_TMNT

On 3/13/2024 at 6:54 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Thanks Rich.  I'll see you there.  I offered to bring my art collection but they said the insurance wasn't cool with it  

Cause he's already had to cover insurance for the TMNT #1 Negatives. LOL  I think the insurance underwriters might be a bit overwhelmed with PMC40. 

On 3/12/2024 at 4:08 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Can you post a link? 

CGC SIGNATURES SERIES FACILITATORS WILL BE ON HAND FOR PORTSMOUTH MINI-CON

Does anyone here have an ungraded TMNT #1 Counterfeit from the 80's that would be willing to provide me pictures of the interior pages (one in particular)? Even if you have one but it's been graded and slabbed, if you took pictures of all the interior pages before grading that would also work. If you don't have one, do you know of anyone with one that you can connect me with?

This would be an actual counterfeit copy and not one of the 2nd or 3rd printings that had the printing info bleached out. Just doing a bit of research and I'm not really wanting to crack my #1 counterfeit if I don't have to (and I didn't take a pic of this specific page for some reason). So, first trying to find one in the wild.

DM me if you have any info and/or pics. Thanks everyone!

On 2/28/2024 at 10:11 AM, shadroch said:

Do you have any idea about the numbers on variants 1 and 2? Would you consider these must-have books or just interesting after-thoughts?

I don't know the print quantities of these two but they were the two main covers for the book and so they were likely much higher print quantities than any of the limited editions. I remember seeing those two covers in back-issue bins for years and years after release so I don't think they are all that rare. Still cool though.

I personally think these books are must-have for TMNT comic collectors. They are a neat part of TMNT comics in the late 90's when TMNT was waning in popularity.

@shadroch The Creed and TMNT crossover is a unique one. That issue had the most variant covers for a TMNT book until IDW started publishing in 2011. But, the crossover itself came to existence from Trent Kaniuga asking Peter Laird for permission to put Turtles in his Creed property. Lightning didn't have an ongoing Turtles title or anything but Image was just starting TMNT Vol. III at this time so Peter must have been thinking it was good for business. Here's a neat bit of info. about this directly from Trent.

There are seven different variants for the Creed and TMNT crossover, with the Subscriber's Hybrid (Blue/Bronze) edition being the most rare version - although the Signed & Numbered edition with COA is pretty rare as well. The Subscriber's edition was limited to only 500 copies and was available only to those that held a subscription with Lightning Comics at the time. I'll list the variants here for you with print runs but you can see images here on my site.

1. Trent Kaniuga Edition - regular/main cover
2. Peter Laird Edition - regular/variant Laird cover
3. American Entertainment Exclusive - limited to 3,000 (with numbered COA)
4. Platinum Edition - limited to 2,000 (with numbered COA)
5. Gold Collector's Edition - limited to 1,200 (with numbered COA)
6. Signed & Numbered Edition - limited to 700 (with numbered COA)
7. Subscriber's Direct Hybrid (Blue/Bronze) Edition - limited to 500 (with COA)

On 2/4/2024 at 2:51 PM, Christian Jude said:

Hey Dan, I could swear I saw the inside pics of these books somewhere with the fake name and 211 of 500. Do you have those pics somewhere? 

I have a couple of the yellow counterfeits with the fake signature and numbering on the interior. You can see them here.

On 12/18/2023 at 7:04 PM, SpideyFein said:

This is awesome Rich!!!! I didn’t know about those subtle differences, especially with the counterfeit. Thanks for spreading the turtle goodness throughout the year!!! I hope you have a blessed holiday! 

This write-up has been on my "to-do" list for a while now. I had been saving all the data but it finally just seemed the time to get it done with the 40th anniversary coming up.

Hope you (and everyone else here) have a fantastic holiday season!

Like the proverbial bad penny...it's back. He's persistent, I'll give him that.

On 10/19/2023 at 6:28 PM, KCOComics said:

@rich_TMNT

Do counterfeits actually go for $6k?

The comicconnect auction pretty clearly identifies this as a counterfeit.  Is there a nuance to this particular counterfeit? 

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/901762

 

@KCOComics The original full counterfeits (like the one you linked to) are pretty valuable since they are part of Turtles comics lore - Overstreet warned of counterfeits in their pricing guide and their description of them matches these.  I sure would like to figure out where these counterfeits came from because they are VERY well-made. The cover of these counterfeits is really the piece that makes them fairly easy to identify - but the internal pages are actually really good.  I have quite a bit of info. about these counterfeits on my site.

The "counterfeits" that are just 2nd or 3rd printing copies with the printing designation erased or bleached out wouldn't be as valuable - since they are just damaged 2nd & 3rd printing copies.

The counterfeit this guy has been trying to pass off lately is a much newer counterfeit - one I haven't seen before. And it isn't nearly as well-made as the other and the internal page images are much too small for the pages.  And, of course, the price is missing from the back cover. 

On 10/18/2023 at 7:45 PM, flchris said:

It's back on with a starting bid of $1599: 🔥🔥 Rare teenage mutant ninja turtles 1 Counterfeit TMNT 1 🔥🔥 | eBay

A one-day auction. Interesting. Someone needs cash fast. 

On 10/12/2023 at 7:26 PM, flchris said:

CGC apparently grades counterfeits (labeled as counterfeit) from what I've seen on ebay (for example: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - COUNTERFEIT 2 - CGC 9.8 SS - POP 1 | eBay). 

They definitely do grade counterfeits. Here's my #1 Counterfeit - and my #2 Counterfeits (Copy #1 and Copy #2).

It makes me sad when I see SS graded counterfeits like the one you shared because it was likely submitted as authentic and the owner only found out it was counterfeit when they got it back. 

I do wish CGC would indicate "why" or "how" they determined these issues to be counterfeit (especially for issue #2). Many copies of the first few Turtles books had quality issues that required hand-trimming by Kevin & Peter (TMNT #1 2nd Printing & #2 1st Printing).  If evidence of hand-trimming on books is what CGC uses as an indication it's counterfeit (especially with #2), they may actually be incorrectly identifying authentic copies as counterfeit.  I haven't yet figured out exactly how to identify a TMNT #2 as a counterfeit but some day I'd like to do a comparison between them to see if anything stands out.

On 10/9/2023 at 9:23 AM, WolverineX said:

Great job!

 

I guess the question is what happens when the next counterfeit shows up with the correct year and price on the back cover?    It's probably only a matter of time now.  

I suppose it's just like authenticating any other #1 - look first for all the signs of authenticity and go from there. This is one of those books that's risky to buy raw - even if you know what you're looking for. Not even sure I'd trust a graded one I didn't submit myself given all the scammers out there - seeing inside the book is the key for me.

On 10/7/2023 at 7:42 PM, SpideyFein said:

Hi Rich, I would love to make this but it would be impossible to do with work mid-week. Thanks for doing it again though. Please post some pictures and maybe a quick video  if you can afterwards! I love the description btw! 

Yes, the mid-week date might make it a bit tricky for many. But it was the only date we could make work.  I'll definitely have pictures to share.  And, there might just be a neato documentary piece in the near future about the negatives if all goes according to plan.

I'll be exhibiting the TMNT #1 Negatives at Jetpack Comics on Nov. 1. If you haven't seen them in person yet, definitely try to make it. They are amazing pieces of TMNT history. 

https://jetpackcomics.com/2023/10/05/join-us-at-the-megastore-on-11-1-from-1-7-pm-for-a-unique-tmnt-event/

I told you so. Here's the book for sale again!  https://www.ebay.com/itm/364516693220 

At least it's now being sold as a "Counterfeit" but it's anything but "Rare."  Some poor person is going to get duped into buying a mostly worthless recent (modern) counterfeit that, if sold, will spawn more copies - if they don't already exist.

But, if you want this, buy with confidence!  This seller has a 96.6% positive rating from 27 separate feedback with an eBay account started just this year. Sounds super safe to me.  LOL  

On 10/1/2023 at 8:03 PM, stock_rotation said:

Where/when did this image get posted? It wasn't part of the first auction he listed (https://www.ebay.com/itm/305064431861). Did he relist and the 2nd auction got cancelled? I don't see it in his history.

The fake Twitter message was posted as part of the 2nd auction for this book - https://www.ebay.com/itm/305115910894

The auction description clearly references it, implying that this is somehow a unique printing unto itself, just now found 40 years later in a "flee market" but never previously documented or discovered by anyone. LOL

On 10/1/2023 at 1:10 PM, Cat said:

Can we please see where Kevin denies the convo? Just for completeness sake? 

It wasn't public - I confirmed this via emails with Kevin's team. Let me see if I can get them to post something in this thread to eliminate any doubts anyone might have. 

On 9/13/2023 at 8:09 PM, Turtle said:

While I'm not exactly sure what the I column references, I'll say that I do like that they gave Splinter an ethereal appearance like his campfire scene from the 90's movie.  Nice touch!

Could the I column be referencing the Turtles from Last Ronin - the ghost Turtles? It's maybe a long-shot since Splinter seems more ghost-like than the Turtles.  All I could think of.

On 8/14/2023 at 10:19 AM, econnorjoyce said:

can anyone identify this i think the blood on the sword means it is 1st or 2nd printing sorry very new to grading of comics, it has no info that says 2nd or 3rd printing on the inside cover

 

@econnorjoyce I can help you authenticate this if you are willing to provide images of a few internal pages.  Pages 2 & 3 (together), 18, 22, 29, 33, 35, 37, 38 

Thanks!

On 8/10/2023 at 8:04 PM, stock_rotation said:

Copy machines don't use ink. They disperse colored powder (toner) on the surface which is then heated quickly and fuses the toner to the paper. There is no absorption. I suspect the caveat about not being suitable for printing is for consumer-level inkjet printers, where that would actually be a problem. That size of cut-sheet newsprint is meant for consumers; offset printers would either use roll newsprint, or if they were configured for sheetfed, it would be a larger page size like 28" x 40". If you walked into your local printshop with a ream of that paper they'd pass on the job because setting up a press to properly run that paper would likely use up half the ream.

Digital copiers are how current counterfeits (or replicas, as the kids are calling them now) are being produced. Nobody's inking up a press to run 1 or 5 or 10 copies of a comic. The cost would be astronomical. But you can get a single copy of a 36-page color comic printed, stapled and cut to size at your local copy shop for under $20. Cheaper if you get more than one copy.

I can provide you with a technical explanation as to what likely happened. I won't bore everyone else with the details; I'll send you a PM.

Great info. You clearly know your printing biz stuff - hit me up. Would be great to talk shop with you.

On 8/10/2023 at 8:56 PM, stock_rotation said:

This particular copy is likely a scan of the 2009 FCBD release. That book would get you the cover (mostly), the inside front cover (mostly), and the entire insides. You could even get the critical inside back cover image from the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Ultimate Collection" Vol. 5 book. A little bit of basic photoshop work would get you over the finish line.

I was going through all the TMNT #1 reprints and I originally was leaning toward this issue being sourced from the 35th Anniversary reprint (Box Set of #1-4 + Raphael). That cover was the most like the original and was even oversized - showing the full wraparound front & back cover but I checked and there aren't any of the interior cover images plus Page 33 has Shredder's fist cut off so it couldn't have been that book. I think you may be right though that the FCBD issue from 2009 could be the source - especially since the page artwork on this is smaller in scale so it likely came from a smaller book.

What I just can't figure out is the missing price on the back cover. I haven't yet found any images of that back cover that are missing that price but I think if that is found on any of the TMNT #1 reprints, that's undoubtedly the source for this.  I can't imagine someone removing the price on the back after scanning it from one of the books that shows it. 

On 8/10/2023 at 7:16 AM, lostboys said:

Maybe its just a fake cover and the inside is real?

The cover (with exception of the missing price) actually looks pretty good for a non-authentic copy - colors are decent, cross-hatching seems there, and the blood on the sword seems accurate.  But the interior page art scaling doesn't at all match with a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd printing so the interiors are completely something else.