rich_TMNT

I'm on the fence about sending this 2nd printing error copy in to CGC. I'd like to get it slabbed for protection / preservation but it's kind of cool to be able to open it up occasionally to see the upside-down interior pages. But, I have pics of that so I'll probably end up sending it here soon.

Thanks! I really do enjoy investigating and documenting - specifically Turtles and definitely TMNT #1. In regards to the other proof I looked at, it actually had more characteristics in common with the counterfeit #1 than it did with the 1st or 2nd printings. The counterfeit (and that proof) are missing most of the little anomalies outside the page artwork borders - which I believe were purposefully removed by whomever made the counterfeits in order to clean up the pages. The pages of the counterfeit actually look "cleaner" than do the authentic 1st & 2nd printing pages - and I think the counterfeiter figured it would look counterfeit if he didn't clean it up. But those little anomalies were a direct result of how the negatives were stripped and they exist in every copy of a 1st or 2nd printing. So, them not being present proves that proof couldn't have come from the same print run that produced the 1st & 2nd printings. It also can't be a 3rd printing proof because of the existence of things in that proof that DON'T actually exist in 3rd printings...namely from Page 29 where the line in the bottom right corner of the artwork is missing from only the 1st & 2nd printings. I'm nearly positive that the other proof I inspected was a proof from a counterfeit press run where the source used was photos or page scans of a 1st or 2nd printing that were cleaned up. The owner was understandably upset and did not agree with my assessment (or my offer) but, the pages don't lie. And yes, early Mirage is really heating up. I just think back to the days 30 years ago when I could walk into any comic book store and find TMNT Vol. I back issues everywhere (and for cheap). Now, my local shops want $30-50 for pretty much any issue of Vol. I they have (and they don't have many issues). Not to mention Turtlemania (white) - between 1988 and 2000 I must have seen somewhere around 250 copies of that thing buried in back-issue bins for $3 each (or less). That book was everywhere but NO ONE except Turtles collectors wanted it. Crazy.

Back in December last year, I found out about this proof and conversed with a comic shop owner who was friends with the owner of this proof. He sent me a few key interior page images that I requested. From my limited evaluation (just those few key interior pages), this printer's proof does seem to be the real thing. It's at least consistent in the few pages I was provided when compared to the interior pages of TMNT #1 1st & 2nd printings. What can't really be proven is whether this is a proof from the 1st printing run (May, 1984) or the 2nd printing run (June, 1984) since the page images of both printings are identical in size and have many of the same anomalies / characteristics. Both 1st & 2nd printings came from the same negatives and possibly even the same printing plates (given they were only printed a month apart). The dark lines across the bottoms of some pages appear in many copies of the 1st & 2nd printings but not all of them. It does seem that in some copies, they are less prominent. My hypothesis is that the dark lines dissipated in the copies from the mid-end of the print run and so copies with the most prominent lines at the bottom were from the beginning of the print runs and the lighter / non-existent lines were from the end of the print runs. If this hypothesis holds true, then the proof of any run would need to have the darkest / most prominent lines. This proof does have dark / prominent lines at the bottoms of the key pages I've seen. Ever since I acquired the TMNT #1 negatives, I've been searching for a printer's proof with pages that contain all the same anomalies / characteristics that only the original negatives could have created. A different proof I evaluated earlier last year had some of the correct characteristics but not all - and that makes it questionable. It's not definitively a deal-killer but proof copies would literally be the first to come off the press run and would be quickly evaluated for accuracy before the rest of the print run was completed. Proofs from a print run should match the entire print run almost exactly - that is, unless something was found incorrect in the proof and then changed for the print run after the proof was made. A proof that's different in any way from the pages of the actual print run can't really be called a proof from that print run (at least in my thinking). All to say, this is such a cool item and I'm very interested in watching what it goes for. Ultimately, I'd really like to be able to evaluate every page of this proof and compare against the negatives. I'm hoping once the auction goes live they'll have more interior page pictures, especially the key pages with unique identifying marks.

I'm curious about CGC grading the oversized comic books for the upcoming IDW series: TMNT: The Last Ronin (#1-5). The books are to be sized 7.5" x 11.5" which makes them essentially "magazines" and not "comics" according to the sizing guidance on the CGC site. Since the original TMNT #1-4 from Mirage Studios are sized about 7.5" x 11" and those are able to be graded by CGC as "magazines," am I correct in assuming that CGC would treat these Last Ronin issues the same as the Mirage oversized issues?

Interesting. I didn't know that. I never go into the post office anymore. I suppose the cost increase in person is because of using their labels and equipment? I just checked and buying/printing a label from home is $13.20 (Medium Flat Rate) and $18.30 (Large Flat Rate). Unless you don't have a home printer and/or tape, I can't imagine why you'd want to go into USPS to ship when they do free pickup at home through your normal mail carrier (although, it could be that service isn't available everywhere). If the package is too large for your mailbox, you can schedule the pickup online so they know to look for it (and you get email confirmation when they pick it up). Very convenient.

USPS Flat Rate boxes work well for bulk comic books. The Medium & Large Flat Rate boxes come in two different sizes, both of which accommodate a large number of comics (depending on how thick they are)....all for around $13 (Medium) or $19 (Large) anywhere in the USA. The Large Flat Rate boxes hold a ton of books.

@whetteon Digital Webbing Presents #24 has a few different covers but that TMNT one is the hardest to find (outside of the Museum Edition Variant). Definitely it's the coolest (of course!). I wish the print quantity were recorded on each issue like it is on this variant...that would make things so nice and clear. Great grade on this, too.

Although it's not a signed and numbered copy, it's a great find for a great price. Another cool piece of early Turtles history.

Cool book! The Turtlemania books all just have unique and odd history. I'd be lying if I felt we'd now found every last variant of these. Especially now that Robert is releasing "30th Anniversary Editions" that seem to be numerous in their variations.

@Icculus308win Very interesting! You posting about this now is a bit uncanny. Recently in my Turtles FB group a new member stated that he was thinking of selling some of his copies of Turtlemania Silver. He had no pictures (and still hasn't provided any) but he did state that none of his copies were numbered or signed. This, of course, made me wary of a scam and so I contacted Robert Wilson (the guy that created the Turtlemania books). Robert actually knew this guy and they had been partners in business back in the 1980's but they hadn't been in touch in about 30 years. Robert said it's likely that the "Silver" copies (grayish cover) without signature or numbering (assuming that's what this guy had) would have to be surplus copies (overprinted quantity from the same print run) set aside to be used as backup copies in case one of the 100 signed & numbered copies got damaged, ruined, etc. So, from the pictures here, it seems that what you have is one of the surplus copies of Turtlemania Silver edition that was not signed or numbered. According to Robert, it would be from the same print run as the signed & numbered books. It looks to be on the correct "grayish" paper stock and you had mentioned spine damage which is something that many of the Silver editions suffer from (both of mine included) due to the poor quality paper stock. The spines split quite often and the staples are many times rusted (staining the cover paper). However, your grade of 9.6 clearly indicates that it's not suffering from as much spine damage as typical Silver copies (although the staples look a bit inset). Usually there's a visible split in the spine. The reason yours may not have much spine damage is that it wasn't opened / handled as much as the 100 signed / numbered copies. I'd be interested to know the provenance of this copy (if you know it). It no longer surprises me to find out about all these different variants of Turtlemania books anymore. As with the Turtlemania hand-colored edition I acquired a few years back, seems Robert Wilson allowed a bunch of these "un-documented" variants, copies, etc. to exist. At least Robert is still available as a resource for inquiries about all these Turtlemania books. Otherwise, we'd be in the dark.

This came out really great! Nice set of books. I bought a bound version of TMNT #1-4 + Raphael years ago on eBay that looks very similar to this (just not as thick and, of course, oversized due to the larger issues). That was the first time I knew this could be done with comic books. Congrats on getting this project complete. Really a neat collection.

Yes, all versions of the original 1986 Turtlemania books (White, Silver, Gold) have identical interior pages. Aside from the color of the paper used for the three different covers (and ignoring the signatures/sketches, numbering present on the Silver & Gold ), the covers also have identical content on them. Earlier this year, the same person that made the original Turtlemania books (Robert Wilson) issued some Silver and Gold Anniversary Editions of Turtlemania. Those all have the same content as the original but with a few new pages of content added.

Wow! A bit ashamed to admit I didn't realize that piece was a Kirby original when I saw it in Turtle Soup...or I did and just forgot that detail. But I think the Eastman sig is great...good placement and actually brings the piece full-circle...Kirby-->Eastman-->Kirby. Beautiful man.

Such a cool page !! I don't collect the original artwork but this one is really great...one I'd nab for sure if funds allowed.

@jaybuck43 I am going. I'll be bringing the TMNT #1 Production Negatives for (hopeful) signatures by as many Mirage TMNT guys as possible (and to let TMNT fans get to see them in person). I'm banking this would be the only chance to have Peter Laird sign them (if he even attends) since I don't plan to travel with these negatives again. Also, the remaining 200 copies of my TMNT #95 BLANK will be at Granite as well. As for CGC, as @nriccijr stated, Comics & Ponies travel with Eastman to most shows and they do the CGC for all of the activity at Kevin's table. @Turtle I thought the exact same thing and the Con told me something similar to that as well. No clue what the additional value is for the TMNT VIP vs. VIP Pass + TMNT Meet / Greet combo. @nriccijr If Peter goes, I'm betting it won't be announced until just a week or two leading up to Granite Con. That seems to have been the M.O. for the last few times Peter appeared with Steve Lavigne. But, with Peter having announced that he's no longer signing stuff sent in to Mirage, he may be done with shows as well. Word on the street is that Granite is HEAVILY pushing to try and get Peter there...time will tell. I'm kind of leaning towards thinking that he won't show though...but, I hope I'm wrong.

Totally with you on this. The content of the two books (TMNT #1 vs. Turtlemania) is totally different with Turtlemania being literally nothing of substance quite honestly. TMNT #1 is the key book that started the entire franchise...and Turtlemania (and the "Con" where it debuted) wasn't even something Kevin liked (and still doesn't today). It's a gimmick book but the GOLD being limited to 10 copies IS what makes it valuable...not the content. Whereas, the content of TMNT #1 is everything and its historical significance is undeniable. And, although not limited to only 10 copies, just over 3,000 copies is still a very limited quantity. You know there had to have been a fairly high destruction / loss rate for that 1st printing so the availability has to be much less than 3,275 print quantity I would think (my opinion of course - no real fact behind that).

I'd say the introduction of Jennika the 5th Turtle is pretty major news...the last 4 weeks have been Turtles-mania and I'm betting that could have something to do with it.

This is incredible! Wonder if this will get to six figures. I suppose it's not that surprising though. This price jump is the same thing that happened to Turtlemania GOLD and SILVER as of late. GOLD has been about a $10-15K book for a few years and now it's suddenly nearly $60K. SILVER was $1-2K and now $8-9K. Turtles are hot now and my opinion is that these rare low-print quantity books have caught the eyes of collectors in general...not just Turtles collectors. And, these collectors have some deep pockets...much deeper than mine!

@GM8 The original listing has ended but he relisted it (which is still up as of me posting this). It's still the same price as before but he's edited the title and description to reflect what it actually is.

I am a bit surprised at him still thinking this is worth thousands of dollars.

@BlastaarYes, isn't that interesting. Given his prior responses to my questions, I bet if you asked him about that he'd probably respond with a "I meant in the $80 range - not the 1980's." Lol. And, even then, he'd have overpaid.

Plus, he dropped the price by thousands in the last day or so. I'm betting he'll continue to do so until it sells. I'm going to ping him to see if he'll show me a picture of the inside. If not, I'll call him out. UPDATE: I contacted the seller asking for the dimensions of the book and, if possible, interior images. In true scammer form, sis response was, "I'm sorry I'm not going to open the frame please read description" So, I responded asking just for the dimensions, which I stated didn't require him to do anything but put a ruler to the glass. His response, "I can provide dimensions of the frame but won't take the comic out of the frame." LOL This dude is so full of . Anyway, I told him I knew what this book was and that he's knowingly lying about it - especially now since I just informed him what the book was and he won't provide the book dimensions. So, he can't use the "I didn't know" card anymore. His response, "Thank you for your concerns and feedback I will look into it more thanks again have a great day." Look into it would be the best thing to do...open it and LOOK inside. UPDATE 2: Seller has now relisted to reflect what this book actually is. But he's still asking about $12,500 too much for it.

@valiantman I'm with you on this 100%. But, damage or not, it's not a first printing and, in fact, isn't ANY of the first three printings. Due to the framing dimensions, you can completely tell the dimensions of the book itself are modern comic book dimensions and NOT oversized as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd prints are - it's way too narrow. Plus, in looking at one of the pictures, you can see a glare coming off of the cover indicating it's a very glossy cover. While TMNT #1 wasn't necessarily matte, it wasn't that glossy. However, the TMNT #1 reprint (modern-sized) included in the Ultimate Visual History (2014 version) did have a glossy cover that is identical to the one seen in this auction. That reprint book was being sold online for hundreds of dollars and people were buying it for that...a book you could easily get for $25 from Barnes & Noble. I'm nearly positive that is actually what's in this frame...the free reprint book included with the 2014 Ultimate Visual History book. This is the inside of that book...and I wouldn't touch this book without seeing the inside front cover first (at minimum). I'm betting this guy either got scammed himself and is trying to flip it to unsuspecting buyers OR he knowingly bought this and put it in a frame to hide his devious shenanigans.

@GM8 Yeah, lots of red flags in the listing description. "...never was opened and should not be." "AS IS NO RETURNS SORRY." "...they told me once we frame it we recommend you don't take it out again...So I never did." "Please buy with confidence... I just never had the time to get it graded." With a TMNT #1, a little time means $$. Looks legit from pics but I wouldn't touch this for $18.5K without back cover and interior page pics.

You'd think they'd at least be able to do a high-res scan of the original covers.