rich_TMNT

I'm totally with you on the margin thing...it's completely unnecessary and looks funny. Why are they even there? It doesn't make sense.

@Bronty Here are links to the recent ComicLink auctions: Turtlemania GOLD (#7 of 10) Turtlemania SILVER (#8 of 100) Also, I made a post recently on my site to document the sale of these.

No plans at the moment other than getting them signed by more Mirage Studios artists in the near future. I have no plans to donate them...my collection is a great place for them. They are in my possession so there's no chance they could be used for counterfeiting.

Yeah, these negatives are really amazing. They've traveled far and have a great backstory.

Long story...too much to go into here. You can read all about them here.

I own the TMNT #1 Production Negatives that were used to make the 1st & 2nd printings so that's 90% of what it would take to make an exact replica (hypothetically of course). All that would be needed are the four cover images (interior & exterior).

It's unknown who made these counterfeits so we can't know how many were made. Lots of details about this counterfeit here if you're interested.

Or, PL accidentally signed "2014" instead of "2018" but that seems unlikely. Probably what you said makes the most sense but it makes it stand out as something that's not right about it.

How does something like this happen? I sure would like to know who it is that's battling it out for this book. I hope it's eventually known who wins it but I doubt we ever find that out.

Got my 2nd mortgage approved and sold my truck! I'm all ready for the final bidding battle...

Its origin (who created it) is actually not known. However, I acquired it from eBay from another collector.

@nriccijr These are being done by the same person that did the original Turtlemania books...Robert Wilson. He's doing a set of Gold, Silver, Regular, and then (supposedly) a brand new Black edition with new content. So far, only the Gold and Silver editions have been put up for sale. The Gold is limited to 50 copies (with only 10 hand-numbered copies), the Silver limited to 100 copies with all of them hand-numbered, the Regular is to be limited to 300 copies but I'm not sure if any of them will be numbered. All of the copies are signed by Robert (and stamped with the Anniversary Edition rubber stamp) regardless of whether they are also numbered. However, the roll-out and execution of these anniversary editions has been a complete mess. Robert seems like a nice guy (I've never met him but have communicated with him quite a bit). He doesn't seem to be very organized and his communication isn't the best. Plus, his auction listings leave much to be desired - they are poorly written and confusing (edited frequently with new or revised text) and almost all of his pictures are terrible...most are blurry with terrible color. You can't even tell that the Gold copies actually are yellow-ish paper in any of his listings. These really could have been cool collectibles but they've just been so mismanaged that they've kind of turned off a lot of collectors. Here are some examples of how things have gone to date: GOLD Anniversary Editions The first listing that went up on eBay was for a "Preview" copy of the Gold Anniversary Edition. It sold for $610 and the listing claimed 50 copies were to be sold soon. Next, he sold a batch of 20 signed Gold Anniversary Edition copies (all un-numbered) for $25 each. Then, he sold another batch of 20 signed Gold Anniversary Edition copies (again, all un-numbered) for $45 each. Then, he sold eight signed & numbered Gold Anniversary Edition copies (#2-6 and #8-10) for $99 each. Apparently #7 was given to a friend or colleague of his because someone else on eBay sold the #7 of 10 copy for $355 (that's the copy that you provided the link to above). The #1 of 10 copy he sold in an auction just for that copy; it was listed as $999 or best offer and best offer was accepted. Although it's claimed that only 50 copies of the Gold Anniversary edition exist, nearly all of the initial batch of the first 20 copies arrived with shipping damage due to poor packing and so replacement copies were sent out to most of those buyers. None of the buyers were asked to return their damaged copies so there have to be more than 50 copies out there...we just don't know how many more. People are flipping those damaged copies though...they appear on eBay and sell for about $100 when they get listed. SILVER Anniversary Editions The Silver edition sales started with just a single "Preview" copy as well which sold for $199. Now, 100 copies of the Silver Anniversary Edition are being sold in the auction link you provided. Each one of them is supposed to be signed and hand-numbered by him. These were initially being sold for $59.99 when the listing started but due to poor sales, he cut the price in half to $29.99. He's giving those that purchased copies at $59.99 each a 2 for 1 deal. Sales are still pretty slow on these so I'm betting he'll lower the price again. Many collectors have pretty much written these off as cash-grabs since the content is literally the same as the original Turtlemania books (they look identical) and the listing look so unprofessional. No one is sure of the legality of what he's doing since the books should be included under Nickelodeon's / Viacom's intellectual property given these are Turtles books. To me, that's actually the allure...the possibility that these are really illegally produced reprints. But, who knows. Maybe Robert somehow retains the ability to reproduce these. It's unclear to me when the Regular or the planned Black editions will go up for sale. When I ask him about that he never provides an answer. They just appear on eBay. Like I said, he seems like a cool guy and I'm guessing he has good intentions but his execution of these is really not great.

Now at $47K. Seriously, someone really wants this book. These books are rare but they used to just be something only a hard-core Turtles collector would want. Now it seems these have caught on outside of the Turtles collecting realm and being sought by rarity collectors (with deep pockets). Given the #10 copy recently sold for mid-$30K, I wonder if there's a single wealthy collector out there that is trying to buy up all the Golds. Although, given the bidding war, seems there are a couple of them out there.

Here are the details from the link since it's not working for you: A true counterfeit copy of TMNT #1 by Mirage Studios (a “Full Counterfeit”). This counterfeit would be nearly impossible to detect without knowing a LOT about the TMNT #1 books and without direct comparison against an authentic copy of TMNT #1. This counterfeit has interior newsprint pages and a cover that is near-identical to an authentic (i.e., with the “Gobbledygook” ad on the inside back cover, glossy cover stock). However, there are key areas that identify this as a counterfeit (or, at least different from an authentic TMNT #1 1st printing). Please refer to the pictures for visuals of these differences; NOTE that the counterfeit is always the raw / ungraded copy in the pictures where a CGC graded copy appears. Magazine size (7 5/16″ x 10 7/8″), glossy cover. The lighter red color, which appears almost as a dark pink when compared to an authentic copy of TMNT #1. The absence of the very tiny red or red/white cross-hatching in the dark shadows of the front and back cover artwork; on the background buildings, the Turtles’ bodies, and (most notably) in Shredder’s shadows. The counterfeit renders these dark areas completely black with no red or red/white cross-hatching. In certain areas of the front cover where the red color meets the black, there is a very slight separation between the red and black where you can see white. This is most clearly seen within the second “T” of “TURTLES,” around the sword blood within the “S” of “TURTLES,” and down along the entire right edge of the front cover artwork. While this same separation seems to exist on authentic copies of TMNT #1, the separation is much more exaggerated on the counterfeit. Across the middle of the back cover (from left to right) there are scratch marks in the fully black portion that then progress into smudging within the artwork. This likely was damage that occurred to the master image / negative used to produce this counterfeit cover, causing all copies of the counterfeits made using this method to have this issue. The front and back cover images and lettering are positioned just slightly higher than an authentic TMNT #1. This is very hard to see unless compared directly with an authentic TMNT #1. The Gobbledygook ad on the inside back cover is just slightly cut off on the right side. The upper right corner of the Gobbledygook #2 image is cut off. Both staples are positioned approx. 1/2″ higher than the staples in an authentic TMNT #1 (at least, when compared with my copy of TMNT #1). However, this would likely not be a reliable method of identification since stapling location is probably somewhat variable, even among two authentic copies of TMNT #1. Multiple different types of TMNT #1 counterfeits have been identified over the years. Most are fairly easy to spot since they typically are actually 2nd or 3rd printings that have had their printing designation on the inside front cover bleached out / erased. Those can be easily spotted by simply looking at the ad on the inside back cover and/or the address listed at the bottom of the inside front cover. I actually don’t even regard these as “true” counterfeits since they are really just “damaged” 2nd or 3rd printings. There is also another counterfeit version I’ve heard of that is supposed to have very white non-newsprint body pages but I’ve never seen a copy of that counterfeit before (and I’m not sure it even really exists since it would be super-easy to identify from the stark white pages alone). This specific counterfeit is the most highly sought-after counterfeit of TMNT #1 given that it is a truly identical reproduction in all aspects, including newsprint pages, no printing designation, the Dover, NH address, and the ad for “Gobbledygook” on the inside back cover. Here are the three different counterfeit classifications for TMNT #1: Full Counterfeit – cover and interior pages were reproductions. The entire book is a forgery / re-creation. Cover Counterfeit – cover is counterfeit and placed over body pages of 2nd or 3rd printing (usually 3rd printing). Only the cover is a forgery / re-creation. 2nd & 3rd Printing “Counterfeit” – 2nd or 3rd printing copies with their printing information on the inside front cover bleached out or erased. None of the book is a forgery / re-creation – it is a fully original 2nd or 3rd printing copy. These are just vandalized 2nd and 3rd printing copies and shouldn’t ever get labeled as counterfeit because they are counterfeit only when trying to be passed off as a 1st printing – but they aren’t reproductions. They are damaged original 2nd or 3rd printing copies.

@GM8 Thanks man. And, good questions. The cover is really the giveaway for the full counterfeits. The color and the cross-hatching specifically aren't correct and there's a smudge / scratching on the back cover of them all. But, the binding and trimming is meticulous...and the interior contents don't fully match any one of the first three printings. If you saw my article about these counterfeits in relation to The TMNT #1 Production Negatives, there are things that surely point to the interior pages having been "copied" from a 1st printing and then re-printed by a print shop. But, there's a possibility that the original TMNT #1 negatives were used as well. Nothing definitive. And, even when I thought I had all the facts, it seems that some printing anomalies exist in only certain copies of any given printing which makes it that much harder to do comparison. But, I think there's enough information about all the different printings now to be able to spot these from the cover and the internal pages when looked at as a whole and not just one or two indicators alone. People really wanted to fool unsuspecting buyers and they surely did that with these counterfeits.

Took six months but finally got this back from CGC. TMNT #1 Full Counterfeit. A masterfully done reproduction that could easily fool unsuspecting or uneducated buyers. A cool piece of TMNT history.

Finally got this piece of Turtles history back from CGC. TMNT #1 Full Counterfeit. Although not a legit copy of TMNT #1, it is so well done that it's actually quite impressive.

@Stronguy Thanks for providing the image of that page from your 2nd printing. This is definitely an interesting development. On the one hand, the 2nd printing Page 29 anomaly is now something that can't be used with certainty to identify the printings but since it obviously exists in some copies of the 2nd printing, it still could be an indicator a person could look for (just not a definitive thing). On the other hand, this anomaly being present in only some of the 2nd printing books is a clear indication that this was a printing anomaly caused by the press blanket and nothing present on the printing plate. The existence of your 2nd printing without the anomaly also validates my statement (below) from Part 19 of my TMNT Production Negatives series... "Since the 1st & 3rd printings don’t have these flaws (nor does the negative), the situation with Page 29 is nearly identical to that seen on Page 38 – a printing error caused by either the printing plate or the press blanket. Pretty much everything documented in Part 18 for the error on Page 38 holds true for Page 29. Either ALL copies of TMNT #1 2nd printing have this error at the bottom of Page 29 or only SOME copies have it; still just one way to find out." PM me if you'd be willing to provide me full page images from your 2nd printing of the following pages: 02, 03, 18, 22, 29 (full page), 33, 35, 37, 38. Also, if you have access to a raw 1st printing, I'd be very interested in seeing images of the same pages from that book. Again, thanks for posting this.

I know it! It's unbelievable. Every time I've had the opportunity to buy a Gold, the price has always been more than I could justify paying. But, now the price is just insanity...totally and completely out of my reach. Sadly, I've had to come to terms with the realization that this last remaining book I need is now truly outside of my ability to acquire. Only way I can get one now is to find the one remaining copy (#5) that has yet to surface...in some old dusty back-issue bin for $2. At least that's my dream. The Silver copy also on ComicLink is currently at $6,600 which is also quite insane.

I recently did a lot of comparisons between the first three printings of TMNT #1 in an effort to establish the provenance of The TMNT #1 Production Negatives. All the facts from this thread hold true when trying to distinguish between a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd printing of TMNT #1, much of which is compiled above by @maloney414). I wanted to update here to provide one more way to distinguish between the first three printings (although it requires access to - or images of - the internal pages of the books). During my research, I identified Page 29 as being THE critical page that establishes the provenance of the negatives. However, the bottom of Page 29 also can be used to distinguish between the three printings due to an anomaly I found that exists only in the 2nd printing - an imperfection in the middle of the Foot Soldier's back. While I only had access to two copies of a 2nd printing, this printing anomaly existed in both copies and I'm betting it exists in all copies. When you couple the printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back along with the missing line just to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand, this could easily identify a 2nd or 3rd printing trying to be passed off as a 1st printing. Here's a summary of how to spot this: 1st printing Page 29 - NO printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand 2nd printing Page 29 - printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand 3rd printing Page 29 - NO printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; NO missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand Although many copies of these three printings are slabbed and the internal pages inaccessible, I still thought it might be useful information for anyone that does have access to the internal pages. Just one more method that can be used for authentication. Of course, if anyone has (or finds) a 2nd printing that does NOT have this printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back, then that would render this method of identification somewhat useless. Definitely ping me if Page 29 of any copy (of any printing) of TMNT #1 is ever found to deviate from what I've documented here.

Definitely one of my favorite pages that you've acquired. Love how the Turtles were drawn in those first 12 issues.

@Nelsond0312 Change Is Constant collects 4 issues (TMNT #1-4 from IDW) and Shell Unleashed collects 12 issues (TMNT #1-12 from IDW).

Sweet page! Congrats on this. Definitely a prized piece. Thanks for sharing it.

Nice! Glad to see you were able to get them both. Crazy stuff, huh? And yes, just like @nriccijr, I also found some of the books at B&N without this comic in the back cover folder. Sucks that people would steal these but...people steal everything. And then try to sell them on eBay as something they are not. Good looking books.

@nriccijr Can't wait to see what it is. Congrats on the purchase! But, how dare you sell your Lawson hand-colored TMNT #73 to fund your purchase... it's a priceless collectible! Just kidding of course. Looking forward to the grail unveiling.