sfilosa

I love Joe's work (see my CAF gallery). I collect Savage Sword of Conan covers (see my CAF gallery). Neither one of those pieces are in my collection (don't see my CAF gallery) Not everything someone draws, writes, composes, etc. is their best (it can't be). That's OK. Makes the best stuff even more special.

Since you’ve been chasing this for a while, I would now say make a strong offer. I still think if you’re anywhere close to what the person wants, he’ll either counter or say it wasn’t good enough, but you can always up your offer. The down side is it sounds like he is clearly looking for “above market”. I think some people don’t understand when they make an offer, it’s got to be higher than what you would really think it would sell in an auction. Remember, you’re trying to pry something out of somebody’s hands they didn’t want to just put it at auction. Good luck.

I'm going to slightly disagree with "make a strong offer". Going back to what I said before, the OP said, "I have been offered....". It doesn't sound like, "I asked someone if they would sell a piece, they said probably not, but if you want to make me an offer I can't refuse, well I might sell. My point is start at a "reasonable price", once again I would go with $15k and let the Seller say no. Either he counters or doesn't. If he doesn't counter, I would assume that if you offered a higher price, he would still acknowledge your offer. I had several sales where the first offer ended up being only 50% (or less) than what we ended up agreeing to. Lastly, and this is my opinion only, but I would not feel the need to jump on any Kirby art unless it was a "first appearance" page or just had so much nostalgia for the buyer. At the right price, sure, but there is lots of supply.

Assume your phasing "I have been offered.....", sounds like the person is willing to sell. Start at $15k and let him reject it. Say that both of you should benefit by not paying auction fees (which at Heritage could be 40%) and no sales tax (which HA charges). If you are anywhere in the ballpark, he will most likely counter. I myself would prefer to have a JIM page, and wouldn't put too much of a premium on Thor #126. Comic books, that matters more, but in OA, the quality of the page would mean a lot more. If it was the first issue with Hercules, sure, big premium, if not, just another issue (that's just my opinion). And without trying to be a stick in the mud, Kirby pages come along all the time. I wouldn't "overpay" for his art unless it was something special. Hercules is a third tier character (IMO) and I would much prefer to have a Loki scene.

My 6 year old grandson loves this cover.... not sure why

New addition to my Savage Sword of Conan cover collection.

Look under Miscellaneous. That is where they have a lot of art that they haven't described yet.

Immaterial how/when/why acquired. The how/when/why of how they are distributed will be very important. I've made this point before, but the amount of OA collectors that are active on these boards or who actually post their art work on CAF is very small. I say that because in general of the top 40-50 highest pieces sold in any Heritage Auction, maybe 5 at the most show up in someone's CAF gallery. I'm sure a few of those others go to dealers (8-10) for eventual resale in the future. That would mean around 70% of each HA top pieces are in collectors hands. Now, my guess is a lot of the other 70% is in collectors hands that have a CAF account, but we don't which collectors (or at least I don't). And if there is one thing I have learned on this board, is how diverse our collecting interest are. I swear that I think most of us are afraid to say which pieces we are interested in, but when people say what they won (or bid on and lost) almost all are pieces I wasn't interested in and wouldn't have a clue if they paid a good price or not. I say all this, because the collecting community appears to be much bigger than we think.

I don't doubt that some one might own 20 Ditko Spider-Man pages. My point was they weren't buying those for purely investments purposes over the past year or two. Some one might have 50 pages but have accumulated them over the past 10,20 or more years, and clearly bought them as a collector. I said Doctor Strange covers, not this splash page (which is surprising it went down that much). Heritage over the past year has sold the cover to #2-5, which would make me believe it was from the same consignor who has owned these for many years. None of those covers had ever been at HA before. The last one to sell went for $90k, the one before that $72k, then $48k, $52.8k. Doesn't seem like "supply" hurt the prices.

Interesting that you used the phrase "with significant holdings". That sounds more like a stock portfolio, not a collection, so I was pretty sure where your "chat" comment was going. Obviously, we could debate if prices are going to go up, down, all around, etc., but only time will tell. Unlike 95% of other collectibles, OA is not a commodity. Commodities (including slabbed comic books, stocks, sports cards, coins, etc.) are much easier for "novices" to invest in as they don't need anywhere near the "expert/experience" knowledge to participate. Go to a casino and you can play Texas Hold'em or you can play Roulette. I like both. One is a thinking persons game and one is just completely random. Any novice can play Roulette. Point, anytime novice can profit greatly (or lose greatly), expect higher highs and lower lows and wild fluctuations in price. Simple because the investment novice are only buying or selling based on greed and fear (hear that phrase in the stock market every day). Most OA collectors are not buying for greed or fear. We like prices to go up but also hate prices to go up (as there is still lots of OA we want to buy). And at the high end, even if someone was purely buying for investment, it would be tough for them to move the market down sharply as there would be little chance they own a huge "supply" of something very specific (e.g. 20 Steve Ditko Spider-Man pages). It would have been nearly impossible to accumulate that many over a fairly short period of time. A perfect example is that someone (it appears) had a number of Doctor Strange covers, especially the Frank Brunner early ones. While several have been sold over the past year, prices are only going up, not down, even though there is clearly more supply of these than there has been in many years. But that "supply" is on four or five, not tens or hundreds which can happen with a commodity. All that said, yes, prices can go down, even for OA, but it would seem more like that prices stagnant for a while for certain art that is more common/accessible. For very common art (newer pieces and the artist is still churning out pieces every month), sure I can see those going down when some investor types realize this art is not the next hot thing.

I own/owned a number of Vallejo pieces and the boards he draws on are usually pretty standard. I just think whoever framed this wanted to present it differently than most of us would. That piece was on eBay for years. Can't remember exactly but I think the Buy it Now price was in the $20-30k (or more range). Don't think it will get anywhere close to that. Wait....I'm bashing the price of other piece of art. I can hear the mob coming for me again.

I bought at Heritage a Jack Davis seven page EC horror story (with the splash having a really nice (non stat) picture of the host) for $26k last year. And some of Ingles complete stories have sold in the $20-30k over the past few years. Al Williamson's seven page sci-fi story (two parts) sold combined for $70k just recently. All of these seem like "bargains" to me compared to the price of a lot more newer art. The reason why is that Golden Age art doesn't carry that much nostalgia for most OA fans, and that is what has been driving prices up like crazy, not the "quality" of the art. I have no skin in the game, and SS6 art is A+, love Wood's work and for the right story, I will sell a lot of art I don't want to sell, to get a complete story.

Nowhere as unique as that story. I can find 50 covers very similar to that one, published before SS6. Once again, not knocking the art at all, just knocking the nostalgia for that cover. Man, I came to the wrong bar to chill!!!!

I think I might have made an enemy today!!! Let me rephrase, don't understand the appeal at $300k. It was past my comic reading time when you did that, so I have no nostalgia to that cover. Just like noobies who would watch the original Star Wars or Raider of the Lost Ark, and they have no idea how ground breaking those movies were for the time.

It is a great cover, but as someone who bought original back issues in the 70's (as a kid), and bought the collections and reprints in 80's and 90's (to read to my wife and kids, alright I'm a little off), this cover was not one that I said, "must have issue". Is the art phenomenal, yes, but there were many other covers that were "appealing" and even by todays standards would be considered "shocking". How is this cover any different than Suspense #3 by L.B.Cole published in 1944. Or lots of other covers from the 40's (Timely or Continental). While I don't love the art of the cover, Shock SuspenStories #12 is way more shocking and unique. Literally a heroin addict going through withdrawals on the cover (and unfortunately, still timely). That would have shock the s*** out of me if I was a 10 year old kid picking that issue up on the news stands. Once again, SS6 is great art, but nowhere near as unique as it is being hyped up to be (IMO)

So, looking at HA results, how many covers have sold for over $300k, that weren't: * Frazetta (most of those are paintings except for a Famous Funnies with Buck Rogers) *Robert Crumb (don't even ask me why, as I don't understand the appeal) *Spider-Man or Batman, * Classic cover Green Lantern #76 ((Adams-remember #77 didn't even break $100k just recently) * Classic cover X-Men #268 (Jim Lee, and truthfully I don't understand the appeal of this one either) The answer is none. And while this is considered a classic cover, and all it will take is two bidders that really want it, regardless of costs, it doesn't really fit into the category as in, "I remember seeing that on the newsstand and it blew my mind". Anyone who bought this on the newsstand is 75 years or older and more likely to be selling art than buying. The most EC cover sold by Heritage was $90k, Wally Wood Weird Science #22 less than 3 years ago, pretty darn cool cover. All that said, I made my points why I think $300k is high, but I've seen a lot of prices shock me in the past, and this one wouldn't necessarily shock me.

You might be right, I might be crazy (I've been listening to a lot of Billy Joel lately). Last Wood's EC cover sold for $46k. Chamber of Chills #11 cover sold for $176k (not Wood) and that was supposed to be an iconic image (outside of the comic world). That said, the answer will be known in about two months. Even at half of $300k, I wasn't getting it, so I'm good with any price.

Thought it was time for a new topic so. Has your collecting "style" changed over time. I look at collecting original "comic" art as having three styles. I'm sure most of us have bought art thinking about all three styles but more interesting is what style are you in most of the time and has that changed over time. Three styles: * Collecting for investment - As in I bought this art because I think over time it will go up more than another piece that I also might be interested in. * Collecting for the "art" itself - As in I love the way this artist draws (might be all of his art or a specific period) but the art catches your eye. Most people who want "commissions" would probably fit into this category. Yes, there are themes that you like, but you really like a particular artist who draws the character more than just the character them self. *Collecting for the "context" of the art - As in, you collect all things Spider-Man, or this time period of Avenger issues because you grew up reading those. Or you want pages that are "historically" significant. Doesn't mean you don't like the art, but the nostalgia of the piece far out ways the visual appeal. For me, I do think of investment but not first. If I did, I wouldn't buy as many paintings, as they are at best, average investments compared to a lot of other art I could have spent my hard earned dollars on. That said, when I got back into collecting about five years ago, I would say my collecting habits would have been much more for the art itself. That's still true, but I now bid (still haven't won much, if any) based on context. In the latest Heritage Auction, most of my bids were for pieces where the context was the main focus. While I do see plenty of pieces that I think the artist did an excellent job (or was a good representation of their style), if the piece is a second or third tier characters from a non-descripted title/time period, I just pass. So, has your collecting style changed over time.

I will take the under at $300k. While it is a great cover, Wood's is really known for his Sci-Fi work. Romitaman has a really nice Weird Science #22 Wood's cover for $130k. Not sure why this one would necessarily go for almost two and a half times as much. I still think a lot of EC stuff is undervalued simply because it doesn't "fit" into too many collections. I own a Jack Davis complete story and would love to own more EC art. That said, I really have no interest in just owning one page. The whole thing that makes EC so interesting is the stories. Yes a cover would be awesome and some splash pages would be nice. But part of the problem with the splash pages is a lot of times the "host" picture is just a stat, which pretty much makes the splash pages not worth more than a panel page (since they sometimes are panels and not a splash also).

So you are saying that we should value OA only on it's artistic quality? Obviously, almost anyone who collects Comic Book OA is valuing the content as much if not more than the actual artistic quality. Spider-Man/X-Men art sells for much more in general than a non Marvel brand even when its the same artist. Maybe I should have been more clear in my wording of "quality". I'm not using it only to mean how the art looks, but the quality "content" of the page. Herb Trimpe Hulk pages without Wolverine usually sells well below five figures. But the first appearance sold for over $600k. Quality (or lack of) the actual artwork didn't matter.

Quality can be "artistic" or "nostalgic" . One can argue that Steve Ditko's Amazing Spider-Man art work is not as detailed/refined as many more modern artist, but the content is "quality off the charts". The first appearance of a character can be drawn by a less than top notch artist, but that page is going to sell much better than almost any other page, regardless of the artist.

I know we all think (as I do) that prices are going crazy. That said, you made a comment regarding no boundaries, and implied that quality didn't matter. By know means am I disagreeing with you, but could you point out a few example (preferably in the Silver/Bronze/80's range) of pieces you thought the pricing was way off based on quality. I think we all get surprised on some new art that goes through the roof, but I'm more interest in hearing from you (or anyone else), what they thought was extremely expensive for a piece that was "not quality".

Assume no seller commission?

With Heritage, if you have to pay the 20% seller fee and the Buyer has to pay the 20% fee, that’s a lot of money taken away from the consignor. Any they charge sales tax, unlike a private sale or trade. Even if you use art to to pay for your winnings, they still charge sales tax. Of course dealers are tax exempt so they have an advantage in that respect.

I thought it was going to go for around that amount. Remember another page just went recently in $40K+ range. I need one page for my collection. I was the underbidder (I think). It was a good page (lots of Swampy) but I really would rather have a bigger Swamp Thing and a few less panels. Maybe next time. I also wanted the Ross Andru Amazing Spider-Man page. I liked the fact that Goblin was in it so I was willing to pay pretty high. But $26k when half the page is Flash being thrown out the window seemed like too much. And Cockrum X-Men pages just seem to be increasing a couple grand a month. I really believe there has to be a slow down coming on fairly soon unless..... there are just a few collectors out there scooping up a lot of this art. The challenge as a collector is that any good artist, drawing one of the more popular characters seems like $20k and up (which is just crazy). I do expect to see more and more quality as prices rises. We will see if supply starts to bring the prices down (just slightly) on some of these types of pieces.