redfoxdutchman

1 minute ago, RKgant said:

The question is "is the turnaround time for you what was posted when you sent in your sub, or is your personal turnaround time what is currently posted?" If that makes sense...

The turnaround time is supposed to be when it is delivered at the facility, not checked in. "Previously, there was some confusion about when turnaround times started. Turnaround times now start from the day your package is delivered to our facility, NOT when your submission is entered into our system." So if your bulk package was received on April 5th at 60 business days you should have your order shipped back on June 29th.  

13 minutes ago, Benjamin Brown said:

If CSG wanted to provided better service while growing/maintaining a clientele of submitters they should probably pump the breaks on submissions #s. 

What's the end game guys? Wait until TATs have eclipsed 365 days? Raise prices every few months indefinitely? 

Not only are they not pumping the breaks on submission #'s, they are adding new bulk submitters on a regular basis. 

The end game is to end up just like PSA/BGS. They are doing a great job getting there!

18 minutes ago, Tito Padilla said:

I just hope CSG honors your turn around times when the cards were sent. I sent a bulk order when turnaround times was 80 days. They have not been marked in their system yet (i know this takes about a month or so), but i dont want to wait an additional 200 days now. Hopefully they will still honor the 80 days that it was at that time. 

CSG won't honor the turnaround times, this made me almost spit out my coffee from laughing! CGC Pokemon cards are still grading bulk from December and January when the turnaround time was 38 business days I think. You will wait and there is nothing you can do. CSG just keeps on piling up grading submissions and gets further behind every day. "Turnaround times are estimates only and are NOT guaranteed." They will honor nothing.

At this point CSG is completely overwhelmed and won't admit it. If they actually cared about turnaround times they would stop all submissions and catch up. They are about three weeks on the week of March 29th deliveries, which is before PSA closed. If you submitted your cards in bulk when they said 60 days, it will take a year. These grading companies have no accountability and they don't care. If you want a grading company that is actually trying to uphold their turnaround times then use SGC. CSG is a complete joke. How could they have not been prepared for this? The only way that us customers can stop this nonsense is to complain. Post to their twitter, complain at BBB, and make CSG accountable for their misleading behavior. They went on youtube interviews saying how many graders they hired and how they were prepared to meet turnaround times. We all know now that this was rubbish. 

55 minutes ago, Pachuli420 said:

I sent my cards in to csg, and the receipt says estimated delivery is may 7.  I just want to make sure they got there. Any suggestions. Guess I'm going to try to track it from the posy office

On CSG's main page they have a Confirm Package Delivery where you can put in your tracking number to see if it was delivered to their facility. They won't mark it officially as received for months. They have spent two weeks opening packages for the Week March 29th to April 4th. 

The reason is most people are not collectors and are flippers. Many of the flippers have no clue what they are doing and will send in anything. If someone thinks they can make $2 off a $8 submission they will send it in. eBay is littered with CSG slabs having garbage inside. It will just get worse.

I do send in lower condition cards for my vintage PC, but I try to keep the grade to the decade. For instance 90 cards must be a 9, 80s cards as an 8, 70s cards as a 7, etc... Sometimes I stretch this rule for big-time rookies and HOF players.

4 hours ago, RKgant said:

For a possibly more unbiased account of the difference in PSA cards vs SGC cards, I would direct you towards this https://www.sportscardinvestor.com/2020/05/14/sgc-vs-psa-a-study-weighing-your-options-as-a-collector/

The analysis here shows a big difference in realized prices. PSA>SCG by a long shot.

What I cannot determine is "why?". When looking at the pop report on both PSA and SCG, consistently PSA grades a higher % of the cards a 10, with consistently fewer in the 5-7 range (I can share the data if you like). So the question is "Do people that on average have better cards send them to PSA, or is PSA more lenient on giving a 10?" If it is the latter, why aren't people buying SCG 9 and 9.5 at a discount, then resubmitting them to PSA to try for a 10? There is something happening in the market that I do not understand.

I think I can answer your question a few ways. Even if SGC grades harder, submitting to PSA is risky and unless you want to pay $300 you won't be able to right now. Plus if they do open up bulk would you want to wait over a year to possibly get a PSA 10. Plus there is some evidence now that PSA is population controlling the PSA 10's and giving less of them recently.

I think the most important thing to do before submitting a card is to read how the companies grade. PSA 10's allow for a printing imperfection on the card and SGC 10's and CSG 10's do not. If you have a print defect like a fish-eye or a print line I would send to PSA every time. However, people complain about grades when they should be reading the grading standards, using a magnifying loupe and proper light to evaluate their cards, and doing research on how the card you are grading actually sells in different slabs. I have a 1975 George Brett at SGC right now. I am guessing it is a SGC 6 or 7. If you look at the prices of SGC 7's for George Brett rookies they sell for the same as PSA 7's, sometimes higher. There is not one right answer here. Each grading company has its own strengths and you can exploit them for your benefit.

9 hours ago, dictoresno said:

Superiorfitsleeves just came out with CSG graded card sleeves I believe. word on the street is their PSA graded sleeves fit CSG slabs just fine too.

Superiorfitsleeves are amazing! Use them for top loaders, one touches, and all graded cards. Highly recommend them.

They already have your money. Why should they fulfill your order when they can make more money? CSG puts regular flippers to shame. 

Why do we have to play within the rules while CSG constantly changes the rules? Taking months to "receive" packages and changing bulk turnaround times by 3 X's in the last month. 

Responses by CSG stopped on forums, they give generic answers on Twitter, and the have been silent about increases in turnaround time and checking in packages. Silence is very telling, CSG is sinking and they still want our money upfront in membership fees. They really need someone to say something. They said they would quickly catch up on receiving packages. 

5 minutes ago, Brandon Melnick said:

I also have seen many bad grades in psa cases, but not on the % level of SGC. 

NO, SGC CASES DAMAGE CARDS. THE LITERAL ACT OF ENCASING A CARD IN AN SGC CASE IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AS THE CASES ARE KNOWN TO DAMAGE EDGES OF CARDS. I 'm not speaking about human error. But a horrible holder design. Very widely documented and photographed. And seemingly a higher than normal # of SGC cards getting reholdder submitted come back ungraded and as altered...

Well I am over 50/50 of no damage and will continue to use them since I collect vintage. I have seen two or three examples of the damage because of sharp edges left on the black casing, but I haven't seen any on my holders and I checked through magnification. I have a bulk order through CSG and it is just reminding me of PSA right now where my cards seem like they will never get back to me. Every card I have had graded by every company so far has been pretty fair and consistent. I have a few cards that I feel should have been higher or lower, but not more than a grade. 

1 minute ago, Brandon Melnick said:

Rubbish, I have seen many horrendously bad grades in sgc holders. 8.5's with no good corners and surface issues... all bad. Furthermore, SGC SLABS ARE KNOWN TO DAMAGE CARDS!!! LOOK IT UP. NEVER USE SGC.... And the market has responded. They will be out of business soon if they persist at $75 per card.  Sad, because I think their grading scale makes the most sense. To bad they suck at utilizing it...

I have seen many horrific grades in PSA, CSG, and BGS slabs. There are a few cases of SGC slab issues, but I have never encountered any in my 50 slabs I own and have graded. The only damaged card I have ever received back from a grading company so far was PSA. Does that mean all PSA slabs damage cards? SGC is doing extremely well and won't be out of business. They grade 4000 cards a day and make huge profits. Show me some examples of these 8.5's. I will show you some pathetic CSG slabs if you can show me SGC one's.

1 hour ago, MDBLAW said:

And that was my point RK. That by downgrading me at least one full point, they cost me several hundred dollars over what my card should have graded at. When I get it back from CSG, which is supposed to be tomorrow according to their tracking, I will take a picture of it and post it. Then you guys can give me some input as to what you think it should’ve graded at. I appreciate and value your opinions.

Make sure to take pictures straight on front and back and also a few at an angle. Many surface issues can't be seen unless you have proper lighting and at a perfect angle. 

One thing to also consider is CSG seems to grade MUCH harsher on centering than other grading companies. A PSA 10 can have up to 60/40 centering and a CSG must have 55/45 centering to be a 9 and 60/40 will get a 8 or 8.5. You might want to see CSG grading standards, it may help you understand how they grade. I typically choose grading companies that suit my card the best. For instance if my card has strong corners and weak centering, I will choose PSA. PSA wants every corner to be perfect for a high grade. If I have a card that has weaker corners, but great centering I would choose SGC. Each company looks for different things. With CSG they really emphasize centering and surface condition. Picking a grading company for your individual card is more important than just using one company if you want the best ROI.

1 hour ago, RKgant said:

And...OK.... so the "SGC 10 goes for a PSA 7" bit was out of line. The SGC 10s are actually going for PSA 9 prices.... that still a 50% drop for one grade.

SGC 10's sell for between PSA 9 and PSA 10's now. If you actually have been paying attention recently, Sports Card Investor and other people have been pumping SGC. Their prices are rising and rightfully so. SGC 9.5's are starting to sell for just as much and over PSA 9's the last few days as well. Here is a Topps Kobe Bryant PSA 9 and a SGC 9.5. They basically sold for the same price within a day and both on auction.

1996 Topps #138 Kobe Bryant RC Rookie Card PSA 9 HOF Mint Lakers | eBay

1996-97 Topps #138 Kobe Bryant Lakers RC Rookie HOF SGC 9.5 " NICELY CENTERED " | eBay

1 hour ago, RKgant said:

Lets use facts with proof...

Ronald Acuna SGC 10 sold for $289 https://www.ebay.com/itm/144018658101?hash=item21882e5335:g:e4kAAOSwLEBghAzf

A PSA 10 goes for $800

The Luca went for $159 https://www.ebay.com/itm/233961924121?hash=item367937a619:g:FesAAOSwHRRgcQk~

PSA goes for $272 https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/basketball-cards/2018-panini-hoops/luka-doncic/summary/2662841

I can cherry pick data as well. Here is a Luka SGC that sold for $275 2018-19 Hoops #268 Luka Doncic Rookie Card SGC 10 Mavericks 💎💎 | eBay

Where did a Serpia refractor PSA 10 go for $800? The last three sales in May were $510, $465, $475. The last two Serpia PSA 9's sold for $249 and $160. So a SGC 10 is more expensive than a PSA 9 in almost every single case. Yes you can find outliers, I can even find cases where a SGC 10 outlsold a PSA 10, but it is not common. 

8 minutes ago, ItismeH said:

I disagree, since PSA had monumental submissions and an equivalent backlog, there are still diehards who are still waiting to grade with them when they reopen... that says a lot so I believe CSG can and will be a trusted grader as well despite the backlog and all that comes along with it. 

PSA has diehards and people on the registry. CSG can't afford to have the same backlogs. They don't have the same ROI and customers that used them for decades that will be patient with them. Sure there are a few CGC fanboys that will cut them slack, but that is not the majority if submitters. The majority of people who submitted with CSG did it because it was cheap and they thought they would get back their cards in a relatively quick turnaround time. I can already see the frustration on forums and twitter. People did not expect a 1 year turnaround time when they submitted at the stated 60 days bulk. 

18 minutes ago, MDBLAW said:

Thanks Red, I don’t enjoy arguing with anyone about a topic as childish as card collecting or card grading. Let none of us forget that we are engaging in a kids hobby and although there can be considerable amounts of money at stake, companies like CSG are just trying to offer a service to all of us. The coming months will tell the tale of exactly who rises to the top of the card grading hierarchy. I’m betting on CSG because I believe they’re doing things in a professional and meticulous manner. Still, they have some kinks to work out of their system.

There is room for PSA, SGC, BGS, and CSG in collecting and all do a great job IMO. You just have to be aware of their grading scales and each company tries their hardest to stay within those standards. I don't trust HGA because they don't have a rubric that shows you how they grade. The issue I have with CSG is that they tend to be very lenient with cards graded below CSG 8, but as a consumer I know that going into a purchase. Their rubric allows wear on corners much more than other grading companies, but as long as they are consistent it doesn't bother me.

The problem I have with CSG at the moment is they are not being fully transparent about how many cards they have in backlog. I personally know people that submitted over a thousand cards for bulk. People are already getting upset and they haven't even gotten into the April 1st submissions when PSA closed. CSG took on too many cards and are not prepared for this. This happened to SGC last year on a smaller scale and people are still holding a grudge against them. Unless CSG stops submissions and catches up, they will never become a trusted grader. I want them to succeed, but it may be already too late. People won't accept 1 year turnaround times for bulk when they though it was 60 days when they submitted.

On 5/3/2021 at 12:30 PM, iKARDS LLC said:

I know I'm some what new to this, but why aren't grading companies running operations 7 days a week or at least with extended hours? 

Most are and they still can't keep up with demand.

11 minutes ago, MDBLAW said:

RK, if you’re responding to my post, I’m wondering what you read. My post said that I sent in a not previously graded card to CSG and was disappointed with the 7.5 grade that was given to it. I was expecting and rightly so an 8.5 to 9.5 grade. That’s all I said. Nothing about SGC, PSA or BCG. 

RK was responding to me after I called them out on their absolutely ridiculous claim that a SGC 10 was the same as a PSA 7. I would not listen to someone like this for grading advice if they don't even know current market values. If you are new to the grading scene I will tell you that sometimes you will be disappointed. Surface issues can bring down a cards grade and sometimes they are hard to spot unless you have proper lighting. A surface dent, scratches on the card, and other issues are sometimes not apparent with normal observations. Did you get subgrades on your card? If so it will give you insight for the grade. Even an experienced graded like myself gets 7's on modern cards if I missed something. There is also a possibility your card got damaged during transit or being handled by the grader. I have had cards come back with a dinged corner and it wasn't there before I sent it in. A grader could have dropped the card and there goes a few grades.

22 minutes ago, RKgant said:

So wait a minute... you are telling us that you had a PSA 10 and then you sent it into SGC for a re-grade? This does not seem to make sense.

Listen, no offense.  All I know is what the market prices are. SGC 10 is worth around PSA 7. If there is an arbitrage there, then more power to you if you buy SGC cards at a discount and then re-grade them at PSA, subsequently flipping them for more value. 

I grade with all the major companies and I think they all do a good job. SGC 10's are not worth PSA 7's. Please give examples of this. I will give you real examples below to show you that you need to research before making assertions. 2018 Hoops Luka Doncic #268 sells a lot. In a PSA 10 it goes for about $300 to $350 typically. PSA 9's go for $120 to $130. SGC 10's go for $180 to $220. So SGC 10's do sell for more than PSA 9's typically. Please prove me wrong and don't use one fluke example. I picked a card that hsell frequently. In fact SGC 9.5's sell for the same price as a PSA 9 for that Luka. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

Edit: Want a baseball example? Ronald Acuna 2018 Topps Chrome #193. PSA 10's are about $300, PSA 9's are $120, SGC 10's are $180 to $200. Do I need to go on? Find examples where a PSA 7 and SGC 10 are the same. 

Looks like bulk is 133 working days, which is well over 6 months. Add to that the 2 months it will take to just check in your package and it will probably be 8 months. I think it will probably be longer than that IMO. Probably looking at a year at this point.

Poorly centered 1970's cards should not be graded IMO, even if they are mint otherwise. You can try to trick people with PSA by having the OC qualifier, but the card would absolutely get destroyed by CSG with the centering subgrade. 1970's basketball cards sell quite well raw now on eBay, especially with crisp edges and corners. Just take good scans of the cards. I would grade certain off-centered cards like the 1972 Dr. J, 1975 Moses Malone, or other iconic 1970's cards. 

This is why CSG backlogs are building up quickly. Every card does not need to be graded. Raw prices are real good for vintage and you might lose money grading off-centered cards. The reason why 1970's football and basketball go for good prices graded 7 and above is that those cards are rare! Most cards are off-centered, are poorly cut, and have horrible print defects.