Detective 395 and Green Lantern 76

[BrianR]

I have been thinking shouldn't Detective 395 be on the same par as Green Lantern 76? Both came out the same year Detective 395 3 months earlier. Same creative team on both. From what I hear (may not be true) Detective numbers were on the decline and the title was in jepaordy. The O'Neil and Adams revamped Batman to a darker non campy style. Just like the Green Lantern (although GL was more social issues). Basicly both titles became a more serious mood. Both are extremely hard to find in high grade. TEC with it black cover is extremely tough. More GL sales than Tec as well on ebay and CLink.

 

Plus Batman is more popular, has several movies under his belt. Can we expect this issue to shoot up as well?

[joe_collector]

I have been thinking shouldn't Detective 395 be on the same par as Green Lantern 76?

 

Nope. Next question.

[BrianR]

I have been thinking shouldn't Detective 395 be on the same par as Green Lantern 76?

 

Nope. Next question.

Why not?

[joe_collector]

Because although you strangely discount it, the "social issues" angle of GL/GA was THE reason it got so much press and attention.

[BrianR]

Couldn't the darker tones of the Batman reflect the mood at the time just not as blantly as the GL story lines centering around them. I could try to bring the Original Star trek series, mirroring society without actually saying it, into the picture as well but that would be truly bringing out the geek factor.

[seank]

Because although you strangely discount it, the "social issues" angle of GL/GA was THE reason it got so much press and attention.

 

Once again, I agree with JC.

 

 

[Aman619]

things are as they are. 30 years ago a comic came out that grabbed the attention of everyone reading it. and began a series of issues still regarded as some of thebest crafted superhero tales ever. thats why GL76 is so hot. Plus shockingly there turn out to appear to be far fewer HG NM copies around.

 

Tec 395 was at best a quiet revolution... that is still only marginally gaining attention for Batman events that came after. But theres no big bang sea change evident in it.

[Aman619]

also, at the time, the national media picked up on GLs race relations subplot themes along with Sgt Rocks anti-war stance, further elevating GL76s status.

 

nobody bothered to write stories about how Batman got a new creative team bringing him back to the 40s style Batman. There werent any news days slow enough for that story! : )

[rza808]

I think for a Batman fan however that comic would be held in high regards. Overall I think the previous opinions were accurate. The Tecs changed Batman but didnt elevate comics as a whole it just elevated Batman. Granted in hindsight the Batman we love and see today would not exist if not for O'neil and Adams. I am a Neal Adams fan so both these books are a big deal to me.

[BrianR]

things are as they are. 30 years ago a comic came out that grabbed the attention of everyone reading it. and began a series of issues still regarded as some of thebest crafted superhero tales ever. thats why GL76 is so hot. Plus shockingly there turn out to appear to be far fewer HG NM copies around.

 

Tec 395 was at best a quiet revolution... that is still only marginally gaining attention for Batman events that came after. But theres no big bang sea change evident in it.

 

Do you mean nm in general or as compared to Tec 395.

The census for the TEC is

 

9.4 / 3

9.2 / 3

9.0 / 6

 

GL

 

9.6 / 1

9.4 / 7

9.2 / 25

9.0 / 31

 

This is probably due to the attention GL 76 is getting resulting in more subs, but I find more copies of GL out there than TEC and the higher price probably brings more to market.

 

I do think GL should have its top spot, but TEC should be up there close by as well.

[rza808]

Wow did not realize tec 395 was so tough that is intersting

[joe_collector]

Another thing that bothers me about this "big change" bizarro theory is that somehow TEC 395 heralded a massive shift from the campy Batman to the old-style darker version, but that change had been going on for years.

 

Check out the cover to TEC 394 vs. 395:

 

 

 

I realize all the fanboys love to use 20-20 hindsight and proclaim the O/Neill/Adams start as the "big bang", when in fact, it was not, and TEC 393 where the Batman Robin team split up, is far more important in my view.

[Monstro]

I have been thinking shouldn't Detective 395 be on the same par as Green Lantern 76? Both came out the same year Detective 395 3 months earlier. Same creative team on both. From what I hear (may not be true) Detective numbers were on the decline and the title was in jepaordy. The O'Neil and Adams revamped Batman to a darker non campy style. Just like the Green Lantern (although GL was more social issues). Basicly both titles became a more serious mood. Both are extremely hard to find in high grade. TEC with it black cover is extremely tough. More GL sales than Tec as well on ebay and CLink.

 

Plus Batman is more popular, has several movies under his belt. Can we expect this issue to shoot up as well?

 

if that we're the case wouldn't Superman 233 thru 242 be in the same boat. same team, O'Neil and Adams. they we're brought on by Julius Schwartz to revamp the title, make it more "relevent"

 

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

The more I look at this, TEC 393-394 seems to be the true seminal moment.

 

For example, in TEC 393, Robin leaves the team for school, which takes Batman back to his roots and introduces darker, more socially relevant themes immediately.

 

In TEC 394, the main Batman story involves a Native American who had been shot at, and blamed Bruce Wayne. After trying to scalp poor Bruce, Batman agrees to find the real killer and help atone for the injustices done to American indians, whereby the perp is driven off a cliff to his death.

 

In the Robin tale (continued in TEC 395), we see Robin at his first day in college, being thrust into a student protest, which quickly turns violent with the police. He also gets ARRESTED and now has a criminal record . Again, this SAME highly-relevant story is continued in TEC 395.

 

Does that sound like the "campy Batman" to you?

 

I bet that if Neal Adams had drawn those stories, TEC 395 wouldn't even be a footnote.

[BrianR]

I have been thinking shouldn't Detective 395 be on the same par as Green Lantern 76? Both came out the same year Detective 395 3 months earlier. Same creative team on both. From what I hear (may not be true) Detective numbers were on the decline and the title was in jepaordy. The O'Neil and Adams revamped Batman to a darker non campy style. Just like the Green Lantern (although GL was more social issues). Basicly both titles became a more serious mood. Both are extremely hard to find in high grade. TEC with it black cover is extremely tough. More GL sales than Tec as well on ebay and CLink.

 

Plus Batman is more popular, has several movies under his belt. Can we expect this issue to shoot up as well?

 

if that we're the case wouldn't Superman 233 thru 242 be in the same boat. same team, O'Neil and Adams. they we're brought on by Julius Schwartz to revamp the title, make it more "relevent"

 

 

 

 

Your right about that, this was a time for the key players to be revamped and should recognized as such. A HG copy of Sups 233 is on my want list for the reasons you mention.

[BrianR]

The more I look at this, TEC 493-494 seems to be the true seminal moment.

 

For example, in TEC 393, Robin leaves the team for school, which takes Batman back to his roots and introduces darker, more socially relevant themes immediately.

 

In TEC 394, the main Batman story involves a Native American who had been shot at, and blamed Bruce Wayne. After trying to scalp poor Bruce, Batman agrees to find the real killer and help atone for the injustices done to American indians, whereby the perp is driven off a cliff to his death.

 

In the Robin tale (continued in TEC 395), we see Robin at his first day in college, being thrust into a student protest, which quickly turns violent with the police. He also gets ARRESTED and now has a criminal record . Again, this SAME highly-relevant story is continued in TEC 395.

 

Does that sound like the "campy Batman" to you?

 

I bet that if Neal Adams had drawn those stories, TEC 395 wouldn't even be a footnote.

 

I might have to buy those. The 394 is on my list for the cove, but the 393 cover is awlful might have to give it a second look.

[Monstro]

I have been thinking shouldn't Detective 395 be on the same par as Green Lantern 76? Both came out the same year Detective 395 3 months earlier. Same creative team on both. From what I hear (may not be true) Detective numbers were on the decline and the title was in jepaordy. The O'Neil and Adams revamped Batman to a darker non campy style. Just like the Green Lantern (although GL was more social issues). Basicly both titles became a more serious mood. Both are extremely hard to find in high grade. TEC with it black cover is extremely tough. More GL sales than Tec as well on ebay and CLink.

 

Plus Batman is more popular, has several movies under his belt. Can we expect this issue to shoot up as well?

 

if that we're the case wouldn't Superman 233 thru 242 be in the same boat. same team, O'Neil and Adams. they we're brought on by Julius Schwartz to revamp the title, make it more "relevent"

 

 

 

 

Your right about that, this was a time for the key players to be revamped and should recognized as such. A HG copy of Sups 233 is on my want list for the reasons you mention.

 

 

mine as well. Greggy picked up a real nice copy in SD

[BrianR]

I am eyeing a copy right now if I could sell some stuff.

 

[seank]

I think the true credit for the Batman revamping should go to Giordano as editor and Denny O'Neil as writer. It was happening without Adams and would have happened with or without him. And while the Bronze Batman stories were a move to reflect a more mature (and Marvelized) view of Batman, they were utimately still superhero stories.

 

GL 76, on the other hand, was a perfect blending of three talents, O'Neil, Giordano, and Adams, that reflected social themes that were prevalent in America at the time. GL 76 isn't a superhero story, it's 1960s/1970s soft-science fiction which just happens to have a superhero as the protagonist. It's truly a superior work and worthy of the attention and accolades it gets.

 

(Slightly OT, but I've always held that Green Lantern works best when written as science fiction. When writers try to write his adventures more in the confines of the superhero genre, the stories and character suffer.)

[Aman619]

also, 394 was a 2 part story that continued in the Batman issue where he and Alfred close down the Batcave and move into a batchelor pad in downtown Gotham. So the change was evolutionary ove a few months,

 

Clearly, to me, given the reminder that Tec was already showing Indians rights issues and campus riots, the BIG notable content in GL76 were the panels where the old black guy chews out GL for always helping the orange skins, and blue skins, but not the black skins. THAT scene alone put GL76 on the cultural map because racial segragation was ALWAYS avoided up to that point in mainstream superhero comics.