The Albatross - Overpriced art you get stuck with

[Jesusjon]

As an OA collector, it's probably happened to you. You buy a piece of art that's way overpriced, then later go to sell it and find out you have -- an ALBATROSS of a piece! Common causes for overpricing?

 

A - It's modern art, and that's just what the rep/artist sells it for. (You think the page is cool, or an example of that artist's work on a budget as their prime pieces sell for waaaay more, etc.) Alex Ross fits firmly into this category, but let's face it, a lot of pages from modern books fall into this category.

 

B - It's art that has bounced around from dealer site to dealer site, or whose value has steadily increased based on trade value but not cash value.

 

C - You just get convinced, or convince yourself, that it's worth the price, and pull the trigger, finding out later you were wrong.

 

In the two years I've been collecting, I've had my fair share of albatrosses, I'll freely admit. It's a pretty sick feeling in your gut to know you're going to lose (sometimes a lot of) money on something you bought not so long ago. Worse yet, every fellow OA buddy I've had has had their fair share of albatrosses as well!

 

Anyhow, I try to dodge the albatrosses as best I can, but I still feel bad when I know someone just picked up a page for 1K, 2K etc. and it's true value is 20% of that. Then we spend time trying to mitigate the damage as best we can, and hope to pass on as much of our overspend as possible to someone else! And sometimes people then spend months if not YEARS trying to unload the piece!!

 

Sometimes I want to buy someone's albatross, but they have 8K into a piece that's really worth about 3K, and there's just no way on earth they can bring themselves to do the deal and lose 5K!! They can't stomach it and I don't blame them!!

 

"Why don't they throw that on Ebay with a low starting bid and no reserve and we''ll see what it's REALLY worth!"

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other hobbies. It does. It just sucks. For my brothers out there who have had the same experiences I salute you. May we all be albatross free.

 

J

[heartened]

I, for one, avoid modern art for this reason. Vintage art, by definition, is time-tested. The cream has already risen to the top. With modern art, we may not really know what the cream is. Some modern art is truly beautiful, and one would expect it to rise in value. But, there's no guarantee. Plus, I agree that reps are raising modern art prices to the same level as vintage art. There is no solid basis for this, other than greed. My advice: just say no.

 

My main piece of advice to folks overall is that they should get others' opinions before forking over serious dough. If you're new to the hobby, you can't expect to make no mistakes. All new collectors have buyer's remorse, which is what we're talking about here. I haven't had buyer's remorse since the very first year I started collecting OA, back in 1999. Ever since then, I've tempered my emotions when necessary, only letting them get the best of me when purchasing a piece that I know I'll never part with. Witness the Primer #2 cover I just acquired.

 

As a result, I have not had a so-called albatross for many years, and don't expect to. My guess is the guys who are having multiple albatrosses are the same guys who won't stop for directions when they're lost driving

 

Hari

 

[armydoc]

I foresee a lot of posts echoing what I'm about to say. If you buy art that you love and that gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling when you look at it, it won't matter if you paid too much. Only buy what you love. I haven't bought any art yet with the intent of reselling it (I am very new to this though). If years down the road I decide to, and I make more than what I paid, great. If not, oh well. I know I have grossly overpaid for a few pieces (especially because all I collect is modern in two limited areas). But every piece I own makes me happy. I have no idea what the future holds for this modern stuff (most of the seasoned boarders are pretty pessimistic), but I'm certain it'll all pay for itself in enjoyment over the next few decades.

 

I'm not trying to sound like a smart @$$, I know exactly what you're talking about. I just picked up my most prized Dark Tower page at $400 under what the other guy paid for it 6 months ago. Sometimes we benefit from this same phenomenon. (thumbs u

[Nexus]

A very relevant topic, especially for anyone who wants to get started in the hobby. My 2 cents advice for avoiding The Albatross:

 

1. Do your homework. Spend the $25 to subscribe to the Market Data feature on CAF (www.comicartfans.com). Have an idea of what something similar sold for (not traded for) on Ebay and/or Heritage. Sometimes there's little or no comparable data, so it's always a good idea to talk to other collectors as well.

 

2. Don't be impulsive. This one's a killer.

 

3. Buy and hold. If you end up wanting to part with something you just bought months ago, you probably didn't really want it all that badly in the first place (see #2).

 

4. Learn from your mistakes! Getting stuck with one Albatross is one thing, but multiple Albatrosses? Aiyiyi.

 

Having said all that, everyone will make a mistake or two. It's inevitable, given the emotional nature of the hobby. Don't beat yourself up too badly over it, consider it part of your "tuition". Everyone gets better at it as they go along.

[Jesusjon]

I totally agree to buy what you love. That's a good golden rule. But sometimes that piece that you love MORE is hovering out there and you need to sell something to pick it up. Then you go to sell and find...the albatross.

 

Hari mentions buyers remorse, but it sometimes doesn't start that way. You have a piece you paid $1000 for and you really really like it, even at $1000. But you need to raise $3000 for a new brass ring, reluctantly decide to part with the $1000 piece to find it's worth..$300!! THEN you have buyers remorse!! (It's hard to look at the piece the same way after -- ignorance is bliss)

 

So in addition to the golden rule of "Buy what you love!" there's Hari's rule as well -- "When in doubt, stop to ask directions."

 

And like I said, (and armydoc rightly points out) sometimes I want to buy someone's albatross. A lot of us often say about that $5000 albatross -- "There's a lot more to love at $2000!" and it's true. An overpriced piece still has a "right price" where it can be better enjoyed. Then it's no longer a problem child.

 

J

[john72tex]

I'm not trying to sound like a smart @$$, I know exactly what you're talking about. I just picked up my most prized Dark Tower page at $400 under what the other guy paid for it 6 months ago. Sometimes we benefit from this same phenomenon. (thumbs u

 

What did you get?

[armydoc]

I'm not trying to sound like a smart @$$, I know exactly what you're talking about. I just picked up my most prized Dark Tower page at $400 under what the other guy paid for it 6 months ago. Sometimes we benefit from this same phenomenon. (thumbs u

 

What did you get?

 

I got my issue 1 page 31 splash @ $800, Albert sold it for $1200 in Feb. Not too shabby. I love the page, so I really don't care what it's market value is (but it was nice to get it at discount).

[Artemaria]

Jon -

 

This is a great topic and once again, everyone has made great points.

 

To me this is a corollary to the other topics that pop up every so often in various forms, but the theme is the same. "Did I overpay," and/or "Is the market overpriced?" (one of the more clever variations on this theme was the recent thread "Do all boats rise with the tide").

 

In any event, while many of those other topics generally have alot of people saying buy what you love and over time most of the stuff will be worth more anyway, by starting this thread, Jon hit upon a simple but quite pertinent truth.

 

You don't know what it is worth until you try to get rid of it. So, you can live blissfully with the thought that a specific is worth what you paid for it or more, until you are told otherwise when you try to sell it.

 

Since I'm fairly new to this, and I haven't tried to sell anything, I don't really know if I have an albatross. (I would hope not, but I don't really see myself selling anything I have for quite some time, if ever, anyway.)

 

There's been some good advice parceled out on this thread which I won't repeat.

 

However, one thing I should note, there are a great many people in our hobby who will give you their honest opinion and will guide you in the right way if you seek out the help. Now they won't tell you how to get an Avengers #1 page for a dollar, but they will give you advice on buying, good dealers, etc. and generally some good thoughts on how to approach the hobby.

 

That is invaluable. If you are thinking of buying a piece, but have no idea what the value is, well then I would suggest you talk to a buddy who can give you some insights (and whose collecting interest lie elsewhere ;-). The pointer on eBay and Heritage market data is also an excellent one.

 

Also, while Jon is right to suspect that everyone probably will have an albatross or two if they try to sell, everyone also should keep in mind that they also have a couple of pieces (or more if you've been in this for a while) that have appreciated quite nicely. If it helps, focus on those knowing you can recoup whatever immediate loss you might have to take if you decide to sell those in the future.

 

Hope this helps someone in someway. And thanks to the people who have given me advice on the beginning of what I hope to be a long journey.

 

Best regards to all.

 

- A

[vodou]

Also, while Jon is right to suspect that everyone probably will have an albatross or two if they try to sell, everyone also should keep in mind that they also have a couple of pieces (or more if you've been in this for a while) that have appreciated quite nicely. If it helps, focus on those knowing you can recoup whatever immediate loss you might have to take if you decide to sell those in the future.

 

Back in the beginning I also felt strongly the same as the new guys here - I've no intention on selling, my collection will be a black hole, I can make a few $ or not selling - no biggie - I love the art, etc. What I found was that after 3 years, my tastes changed...a lot.

 

Let's face it, if you've a decent income your first year or two of art collecting is one awesome party of buying up everything you can afford (and some you can't). Then some time goes buy and you can reflect back on what you DIDN'T buy. You know the stuff that seemed a little too expensive or great-looking but off-target.

 

[ex. Who starts out buying Johnny Craig EC panel pages? Nobody. But they're so pretty in person, everybody should have one. Good ones are $750-$1500, which is a mid-to-high sum for many in this group for a single non-focus piece.]

 

Then you realize you'd like some of that but now THAT is even more expensive. So you start thinking about dumping some of the stuff that doesn't look so good anymore. [ex. the endless non-costume panel pages nearly all new collectors grab up in volume 'because they're too cheap to ignore'] Then you find out your true market value.

 

For every guy that agrees with me on this, there will be 2-3 more that will stand up and say that in 20 years of collecting they've never sold a piece...ok, whatever. Some of you will sell pieces...sooner than you think. Tastes do change and you will want stuff you can't afford out of your salary or OT or military bonuses or whatever. So you'll dip into your comics, eat ramen noodles for six months, sell your car, or something to get that better stuff. You may even sell some art...for less than you paid. Accept it and understand it's a learning experiece that helps you hone your "eye" the most direct method possible, by hitting you in the wallet. Just don't make a habit of losing $$$.

 

Again the pessimist am I. That's what comes of actually trying to corner the market on ALL* Captain America (1968) and (1996) series OA and later realizing how crappy owning 150 pages of Rick Levins art makes you feel. No joy there looking at page after page of terrible anatomy and psuedo-Image page layouts. Only to then feel even crappier selling those same pages for 25-50% of what you paid! To be fair I made out very well on the Johnny Romita, Gil Kane, Sal Buscema, John Buscema and especially the Gene Colan pages I was also picking up right alongside the Dwyers and Levins!

 

*At one point I actually had 20% of the splash pages, yep nearly 70. I was collecting art as if I was filling in holes in a comic run. Stupid. And not about ART at all.

[armydoc]

Also, while Jon is right to suspect that everyone probably will have an albatross or two if they try to sell, everyone also should keep in mind that they also have a couple of pieces (or more if you've been in this for a while) that have appreciated quite nicely. If it helps, focus on those knowing you can recoup whatever immediate loss you might have to take if you decide to sell those in the future.

 

Back in the beginning I also felt strongly the same as the new guys here - I've no intention on selling, my collection will be a black hole, I can make a few $ or not selling - no biggie - I love the art, etc. What I found was that after 3 years, my tastes changed...a lot.

 

Let's face it, if you've a decent income your first year or two of art collecting is one awesome party of buying up everything you can afford (and some you can't). Then some time goes buy and you can reflect back on what you DIDN'T buy. You know the stuff that seemed a little too expensive or great-looking but off-target.

 

[ex. Who starts out buying Johnny Craig EC panel pages? Nobody. But they're so pretty in person, everybody should have one. Good ones are $750-$1500, which is a mid-to-high sum for many in this group for a single non-focus piece.]

 

Then you realize you'd like some of that but now THAT is even more expensive. So you start thinking about dumping some of the stuff that doesn't look so good anymore. [ex. the endless non-costume panel pages nearly all new collectors grab up in volume 'because they're too cheap to ignore'] Then you find out your true market value.

 

For every guy that agrees with me on this, there will be 2-3 more that will stand up and say that in 20 years of collecting they've never sold a piece...ok, whatever. Some of you will sell pieces...sooner than you think. Tastes do change and you will want stuff you can't afford out of your salary or OT or military bonuses or whatever. So you'll dip into your comics, eat ramen noodles for six months, sell your car, or something to get that better stuff. You may even sell some art...for less than you paid. Accept it and understand it's a learning experiece that helps you hone your "eye" the most direct method possible, by hitting you in the wallet. Just don't make a habit of losing $$$.

 

Again the pessimist am I. That's what comes of actually trying to corner the market on ALL* Captain America (1968) and (1996) series OA and later realizing how crappy owning 150 pages of Rick Levins art makes you feel. No joy there looking at page after page of terrible anatomy and psuedo-Image page layouts. Only to then feel even crappier selling those same pages for 25-50% of what you paid! To be fair I made out very well on the Johnny Romita, Gil Kane, Sal Buscema, John Buscema and especially the Gene Colan pages I was also picking up right alongside the Dwyers and Levins!

 

*At one point I actually had 20% of the splash pages, yep nearly 70. I was collecting art as if I was filling in holes in a comic run. Stupid. And not about ART at all.

 

I see your points and understand. I listen and take in everything you guys that have been doing this a while say. I am definitely a newbie in all of this and I'm sure my tastes will change over the decades. All I can do is hope for the best.

[Mister Trent]

 

Panel pages, no.

 

Complete stories, yes.

 

Throughout something like a ten year period, as Russ Cochran was auctioning-off the EC artwork, most of Craig's (complete) story art sold close to/or at the minimum bid price of $400.

 

At one stage, I owned 5 complete Craig EC New Trend stories.

[clemso]

I've bought high on many an occasion, at the time they do feel like a Albertross but if you hang on long enough you might find it turned into a bargain. If you let go too soon.. well you might talking be on the other thread about letting it get away.

 

I along with many collectors used to think that the guy who bought the art to Jim Lee X-Men 1 was a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. But look woos laughing now.

 

Clem...

 

 

[Solar]

I along with many collectors used to think that the guy who bought the art to Jim Lee X-Men 1 was a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. But look woos laughing now.

Clem...

 

Seriously. He's probably tripled his money on that book in today's market.

 

It can pay off to hold on to "the albatross." I had a piece that I almost immediately regretted paying a large chunk of change to acquire turn into a 80% profit over the course of 2 years.

[Mister Trent]

I along with many collectors used to think that the guy who bought the art to Jim Lee X-Men 1 was a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. But look woos laughing now.

Clem...

 

Seriously. He's probably tripled his money on that book in today's market.

 

It can pay off to hold on to "the albatross." I had a piece that I almost immediately regretted paying a large chunk of change to acquire turn into a 80% profit over the course of 2 years.

 

Whatever happened to the idea of buying the art for the enjoyment factor . . . something you wanted to keep

[aardvark88]

Anybody know how many X-men v. 2 #1 Jim Lee OA covers Mr Woo got for his $40k? All a to e? A shrewd investment after 16 years?

[Solar]

I along with many collectors used to think that the guy who bought the art to Jim Lee X-Men 1 was a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. But look woos laughing now.

Clem...

 

Seriously. He's probably tripled his money on that book in today's market.

 

It can pay off to hold on to "the albatross." I had a piece that I almost immediately regretted paying a large chunk of change to acquire turn into a 80% profit over the course of 2 years.

 

Whatever happened to the idea of buying the art for the enjoyment factor . . . something you wanted to keep

 

Yeah, I do that too. Did you miss the part about immediately regretting the purchase? This was obviously not one of my keepers.

[Mighty Hal]

I think aelhra nailed it. Great post.

 

Sure, we all want to buy only the pieces that make our hearts sing. On occasion, we have to sell even those pieces -- most often, because we've found a new piece that makes our heart sing even louder.

 

But do remember that life gets in the way for those of us on a tight budget: Once upon a time, I had to sell two pieces of OA to cover a root canal bill. I really liked the artwork. But I really needed that root canal.

 

And don't forget the three harbingers of OA misfortune: Need, greed and speed. As a collector, you suddenly feel a need to have work by a particular artist (particularly if he's been recently hyped or has passed away); an item has just been posted on a dealer's site or on eBay -- 5 Day Auction! -- and you want to beat out the rest of the crowd...so Buy It Now! And you do, even if you don't love the piece you're buying.

 

Huge mistake.

 

Need, greed and speed drove me to buy an overpriced cover...once. I sold it two years later and happily took a small loss to be rid of it. THAT was my albatross. If I'd paid attention to Mister Trent -- only buy what you love -- I'd have been okay.

[Mister Trent]

I along with many collectors used to think that the guy who bought the art to Jim Lee X-Men 1 was a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. But look woos laughing now.

Clem...

 

Seriously. He's probably tripled his money on that book in today's market.

 

It can pay off to hold on to "the albatross." I had a piece that I almost immediately regretted paying a large chunk of change to acquire turn into a 80% profit over the course of 2 years.

 

Whatever happened to the idea of buying the art for the enjoyment factor . . . something you wanted to keep

 

Yeah, I do that too. Did you miss the part about immediately regretting the purchase? This was obviously not one of my keepers.

 

Sorry, yes, I did overlook that part!

 

I probably found it hard to relate to the idea of paying a large chunk of change for something you almost immediately regretted.

 

With me, if I'm going to pay a large chunk of change for an original, I'd prefer to like the art!

[Mister Trent]

Sure, we all want to buy only the pieces that make our hearts sing. On occasion, we have to sell even those pieces -- most often, because we've found a new piece that makes our heart sing even louder.

 

Yep, been there, done it, got the t-shirt . . .

 

But do remember that life gets in the way for those of us on a tight budget: Once upon a time, I had to sell two pieces of OA to cover a root canal bill. I really liked the artwork. But I really needed that root canal..

 

Understandable . . .

 

And don't forget the three harbingers of OA misfortune: Need, greed and speed. As a collector, you suddenly feel a need to have work by a particular artist (particularly if he's been recently hyped or has passed away); an item has just been posted on a dealer's site or on eBay -- 5 Day Auction! -- and you want to beat out the rest of the crowd...so Buy It Now! And you do, even if you don't love the piece you're buying.

 

Huge mistake.

 

Need, greed and speed drove me to buy an overpriced cover...once. I sold it two years later and happily took a small loss to be rid of it. THAT was my albatross. If I'd paid attention to Mister Trent -- only buy what you love -- I'd have been okay.

 

 

Mister Trent says . . .

 

Avoid the ALBATROSS . . . it'll only bring you bad luck.

 

Mister Trent recommends . . .

 

 

 

[vodou]

 

Panel pages, no.

 

Complete stories, yes.

 

Throughout something like a ten year period, as Russ Cochran was auctioning-off the EC artwork, most of Craig's (complete) story art sold close to/or at the minimum bid price of $400.

 

At one stage, I owned 5 complete Craig EC New Trend stories.

 

Terry, I was speaking to the newer collectors that weren't around in the 80s for the Cochran auctions. Complete Craig stories are price prohibitive (even if only 'mentally') for new collectors, as noted even single pages can be problematic. When a collector is all over James Jean or Howard Porter or Jim Lee or whomever, diverting cash towards a Craig page or story is tough.

 

What those stories were selling at 25 years ago is a moot point. That's not what they sell for now.

 

I'm curious how deep the Hampson/Bellamy/Dan Dare/etc. market is. Not knocking what you're into but you're the only one I'm aware of that's into the classic UK stuff. So do you have to really fight for this stuff or is it more a matter of waiting for it to pop up and just paying the price? Most Americans only know of the 2000 A.D. and Judge Dredd (and a bit know of the D.R. & Quinch and Halo Jones stories) stuff.