Matt Nelson to set up at Baltimore

[Foolkiller]

Borock has told me and others point blank (and I believe has stated on the boards as well) that when pressing is done properly it cannot be detected. If you mean a botch job, yes, they can detect it. If he wasn't on vacation, I'd call him on his cell right now.

 

The thing is, the collecting community shouldn't depend on CGC solely for defining "restoration". To put it bluntly, the entire business of CGC hinges on their unrestored blue label. Pressing cannot be detected with a high degree of certainty, so CGC has chosen to not consider it restoration, and for them to do otherwise would destroy the "integrity" of the unrestored blue label.

 

This is an entirely different discussion and I agree with you Bob. The problem is that it's pretty much already happened.

 

In fact, that this very debate rages infinitely on these boards is a sure sign that it hasn't pretty much already happened.

 

Something else I've noticed - the tendency is far greater for Golden Age specialists to not be concerned with pressing, whereas Silver and Bronze collectors seem more likely to consider it important. This makes sense for their respective high grade segments. Due to the extreme rarity of many Golden Age books in high grade, a little pressing here or, in many cases, a little tear seal and spine reinforcement there is not that big of a deal, since after all there may be only 1-3 copies of a particular issue available in any form of high grade. Silver, on the other hand, is relatively abundant in high grade, and there are several collectors who consider it far more special to own a NM or NM+ copy of an early Silver Age book in unrestored, unmanipulated shape than to own a copy that had to be pressed to look pristine.

 

Bob -- not to get off topic -- but how many of the Janewicz (sp?) books do you think may have been pressed?

[Foolkiller]

Borock has told me and others point blank (and I believe has stated on the boards as well) that when pressing is done properly it cannot be detected. If you mean a botch job, yes, they can detect it. If he wasn't on vacation, I'd call him on his cell right now.

 

The thing is, the collecting community shouldn't depend on CGC solely for defining "restoration". To put it bluntly, the entire business of CGC hinges on their unrestored blue label. Pressing cannot be detected with a high degree of certainty, so CGC has chosen to not consider it restoration, and for them to do otherwise would destroy the "integrity" of the unrestored blue label.

 

This is an entirely different discussion and I agree with you Bob. The problem is that it's pretty much already happened.

 

In fact, that this very debate rages infinitely on these boards is a sure sign that it hasn't pretty much already happened.

 

Something else I've noticed - the tendency is far greater for Golden Age specialists to not be concerned with pressing, whereas Silver and Bronze collectors seem more likely to consider it important. This makes sense for their respective high grade segments. Due to the extreme rarity of many Golden Age books in high grade, a little pressing here or, in some cases, a little tear seal and spine reinforcement there is not that big of a deal, since after all there may be only 1-3 copies of a particular issue available in any form of high grade. Silver, on the other hand, is relatively abundant in high grade, and there are several collectors who consider it far more special to own a NM or NM+ copy of an early Silver Age book in unrestored, unmanipulated shape than to own a copy that had to be pressed to look pristine.

 

Also, I think your analysis regard GA/SA is dead on.

[namisgr]

Bob -- not to get off topic -- but how many of the Janewicz (sp?) books do you think may have been pressed?

 

You'd have to ask Heritage. Only clues I have that are relevant are that (1) Dallas-based Heritage does not disclose whether books they auction have been pressed; (2) books auctioned by Heritage are known to have been pressed into higher grades, sometimes many levels higher; (3) presser-extraordinaire Matt Nelson lives nearby; (4) the higher the CGC numerical grade, the higher the auction price, auctioneer fees, and amount of future business.

[arexcrooke]

However, this doesn't change the argument as to whether it is/isn't restoration, and it certainly doesn't alter my position that, if you know it's been pressed, you should disclose.

 

And if you did the work yourself before throwing it up on eBay, you should definitely disclose

Without a shadow of a doubt correct Guv :thumbsup:

Now, when are you making it over to WFU? soon i hope

 

Looks like Michele is heading over in March/April, but I'm unlikely to make an appearance.

[The Black Hand ®]

Borock has told me and others point blank (and I believe has stated on the boards as well) that when pressing is done properly it cannot be detected. If you mean a botch job, yes, they can detect it. If he wasn't on vacation, I'd call him on his cell right now.

 

The thing is, the collecting community shouldn't depend on CGC solely for defining "restoration". To put it bluntly, the entire business of CGC hinges on their unrestored blue label. Pressing cannot be detected with a high degree of certainty, so CGC has chosen to not consider it restoration, and for them to do otherwise would destroy the "integrity" of the unrestored blue label.

 

 

 

It seems like we've allowed the fox to define security measures for the henhouse.I can usually tell a full press job, some are better than others and pressing is a useful tool...but it should be disclosed if known, to not do so if one knows for sure, just doesn't seem right to me. That's all I'm saying.

 

Also, just because one organisation wants to define what the rules are as they see them, doesn't mean we have to snap to attention.

[showcase4]

Golly Willickers!

...a thread started about Matt Nelson having a booth at the Baltimore Comic Con led to a debate as to whether pressing is restoration or not..........completely unpredictable!!!

 

Steve

[bhhooks22]

You don't have to "snap to attention" about anything,..but in today's environment ,you better ask the seller if the book's been pressed,if that is a concern with you! And then again, he is not "legally" bound to tell you so ......

[DrWatson]

If I ever get arrested, I'm calling both Brian and MrBedrock. (thumbs u

 

On tonight's evidence, one will have you out in the morning, and the other will have you petitioning the Governor. (thumbs u

Funny post, Nick.

 

Normally, I would have a witty retort, but I have worked all day and I am tired.

[arexcrooke]

[DrWatson]

Golly Willickers!

...a thread started about Matt Nelson having a booth at the Baltimore Comic Con led to a debate as to whether pressing is restoration or not..........completely unpredictable!!!

 

Steve

 

Tell me about it. That Arex is nothing but a paddle.

[showcase4]

paddle.

 

:signfunny:

 

( He said paddle )

[arexcrooke]

Golly Willickers!

...a thread started about Matt Nelson having a booth at the Baltimore Comic Con led to a debate as to whether pressing is restoration or not..........completely unpredictable!!!

 

Steve

 

Tell me about. That Arex is nothing but a paddle.

Ah , im using that one! Damn i like it!

Now answer my pm

[DrWatson]

Golly Willickers!

...a thread started about Matt Nelson having a booth at the Baltimore Comic Con led to a debate as to whether pressing is restoration or not..........completely unpredictable!!!

 

Steve

 

Tell me about. That Arex is nothing but a paddle.

Ah , im using that one! Damn i like it!

Now answer my pm

Check you message box.

[arexcrooke]

[bhhooks22]

Man!...you like that?...try...Pooperscooper!..

[arexcrooke]

ehh, heard that one a lot.

never heard paddler before though

[Dale Roberts]

It is really a shame that this wonderful hobby has come to this. That all anybody wants is a .2 bump on a case instead of just a nice book.

 

There is no shame in people wanting a nice book. Whether a book is unpressed and nice, or pressed and nice in a higher graded holder, it is still a nice book. If a collector prefers the higher grade, that is cool. If a collector prefers an unpressed book, that is cool too. No shame in either approach. The only shame is that there are those whose arguments seem to give the impression that a pressed book has a taint on it, is devalued and/or somehow corrupted.

 

If I personally feel that it is devalued, or is tainted, then it has been.

 

Because the placement of a value on something is all down to the buyer, not the seller, and if I feel that it is worth less, it is worth less.

 

Which is why lack of disclosure is deceptive and underhand. Knowing full well that there are buyers who do not want to buy a pressed book, or who want to pay less for a pressed book, you should make that information available to all so that decisions can be made in full possession of those facts.

 

To me, not proactively disclosing is as underhand as...oh, I don't know...shilling your own auctions. (thumbs u

 

This is a ridiculous notion. As far as I know I have never sold you a book. If that is the case, does that mean I have never sold a book and I have no market. No. Each individual is a minute piece of the market and if you don't buy it, but I can sell it to 1000 other people, then the price is not affected at all.

[DrWatson]

ehh, heard that one a lot.

never heard paddler before though

You're kidding me. We live two hours apart and you have never heard the term, paddle? Are you sure you're from North Carolina?

[DrWatson]

It is really a shame that this wonderful hobby has come to this. That all anybody wants is a .2 bump on a case instead of just a nice book.

 

There is no shame in people wanting a nice book. Whether a book is unpressed and nice, or pressed and nice in a higher graded holder, it is still a nice book. If a collector prefers the higher grade, that is cool. If a collector prefers an unpressed book, that is cool too. No shame in either approach. The only shame is that there are those whose arguments seem to give the impression that a pressed book has a taint on it, is devalued and/or somehow corrupted.

 

If I personally feel that it is devalued, or is tainted, then it has been.

 

Because the placement of a value on something is all down to the buyer, not the seller, and if I feel that it is worth less, it is worth less.

 

Which is why lack of disclosure is deceptive and underhand. Knowing full well that there are buyers who do not want to buy a pressed book, or who want to pay less for a pressed book, you should make that information available to all so that decisions can be made in full possession of those facts.

 

To me, not proactively disclosing is as underhand as...oh, I don't know...shilling your own auctions. (thumbs u

 

This is a ridiculous notion. As far as I know I have never sold you a book. If that is the case, does that mean I have never sold a book and I have no market. No. Each individual is a minute piece of the market and if you don't buy it, but I can sell it to 1000 other people, then the price is not affected at all.

Dale,

Nick was not referring to you when he mentioned shilling. It was a not so veiled reference to the fact that he believes that Matt has shilled his auctions on eBay. It wasn't your reputation he was seeking to tarnish.

[Flaming_Telepath]

It is really a shame that this wonderful hobby has come to this. That all anybody wants is a .2 bump on a case instead of just a nice book.

 

There is no shame in people wanting a nice book. Whether a book is unpressed and nice, or pressed and nice in a higher graded holder, it is still a nice book. If a collector prefers the higher grade, that is cool. If a collector prefers an unpressed book, that is cool too. No shame in either approach. The only shame is that there are those whose arguments seem to give the impression that a pressed book has a taint on it, is devalued and/or somehow corrupted.

 

If I personally feel that it is devalued, or is tainted, then it has been.

 

Because the placement of a value on something is all down to the buyer, not the seller, and if I feel that it is worth less, it is worth less.

 

Which is why lack of disclosure is deceptive and underhand. Knowing full well that there are buyers who do not want to buy a pressed book, or who want to pay less for a pressed book, you should make that information available to all so that decisions can be made in full possession of those facts.

 

To me, not proactively disclosing is as underhand as...oh, I don't know...shilling your own auctions. (thumbs u

 

This is a ridiculous notion. As far as I know I have never sold you a book. If that is the case, does that mean I have never sold a book and I have no market. No. Each individual is a minute piece of the market and if you don't buy it, but I can sell it to 1000 other people, then the price is not affected at all.

 

Actually, you've sold me six books in total, over three transactions. (thumbs u

 

And you're missing the point...whether something is devalued, or tainted, is subjective. In some cultures, marrying a woman who has previously 'known a man' is a no-no. However, many other men from other cultures might have no problem with it.

 

There is no right or wrong.

 

The only thing here that is objective is whether the book has been pressed or not. Reveal that material fact, and then the buyer can make their own subjective decision whether to buy, or whether to offer lower, or whether to walk away.

 

And I'll try to avoid the use of the infammatory 'ridiculous' here...