DETECTIVE COMICS #27 found in attic

[Monstro]

wouldn't he then loose money?

[MrBedrock]

I have a book with the exact same kind of problem. If someone were to cut that off, would that be considered trimming? What if they just tore it off?

 

If you cut it off CGC does consider it trimming.

[Foolkiller]

Now I know something is up -- my post asking Todd to contact me was deleted when I said I believed the book was restored and that it has been shopped around...

 

This is very suspicious... I will obviously have to take other avenues to try and get the word out about the suspected trimming.

 

The problem is ALL the other books I suspect this guy has that were trimmed.

 

do you really think this guy Todd is that much of a fool? sounds like he's been in the business for a while.

 

Not directly answering your question, but there have been many art experts that have been fooled by forgeries that were properly presented and contextualized.

 

It's not a question of being a fool. Trimming is tough to detect with the naked eye... and it's a Tec 27. If he didn't have all the information, I can absolutely see him being fooled.

[Scheradon]

wouldn't he then loose money?

 

I doubt it, but who knows.

 

He never said what he paid for the book, but I'm sure he figured in a nice profit potential. He bough it raw and could probably sell it raw too at a better price than he paid for it.

 

The problem is, if he doesn't grade it and the person who buys it does...and it comes back restored, he's going to have a real headache. I'd grade it for that reason alone, not to mention, if it comes back clean, he'll make a killing.

 

With some potential news that it could be trimmed, I'm sure he's a little nervous to slab it and see his profit margin disappear and possibly go into the negative zone. But, what choice does he make here?

[Scheradon]

I have a book with the exact same kind of problem. If someone were to cut that off, would that be considered trimming? What if they just tore it off?

 

If you cut it off CGC does consider it trimming.

 

What if it just got bent back and forth so much that it "fell" off?

[Foolkiller]

wouldn't he then loose money?

 

I doubt it, but who knows.

 

He never said what he paid for the book, but I'm sure he figured in a nice profit potential. He bough it raw and could probably sell it raw too at a better price than he paid for it.

 

The problem is, if he doesn't grade it and the person who buys it does...and it comes back restored, he's going to have a real headache. I'd grade it for that reason alone, not to mention, if it comes back clean, he'll make a killing.

 

With some potential news that it could be trimmed, I'm sure he's a little nervous to slab it and see his profit margin disappear and possibly go into the negative zone. But, what choice does he make here?

 

If this is indeed the same book shopped and my memory is correct, I believe the original seller wanted $400k for the lot and $200k for just that one book alone... but if Todd paid very reasonably for the book, then the trimming is irrelevant, if it's there at all... it's just a question of Todd being aware of what the original seller had... and I want to verify that I'm talking about the same person.

 

But we're not talking an ASM 67 here... it's a Tec 27 and I'm sure Todd's a good guy, so it's important he know what's out there, then he can make up his own mind about the original seller.

[Mr. Zipper]

I have a book with the exact same kind of problem. If someone were to cut that off, would that be considered trimming? What if they just tore it off?

 

If you cut it off CGC does consider it trimming.

 

What if it just got bent back and forth so much that it "fell" off?

 

 

Right... where does one draw the line between "trimming" and "neatly torn?"

 

In a midgrade book like this, I suspect if the extra paper was neatly folded back, it may not impact the grade at all.

[Foolkiller]

Just got confirmation that another (full time) dealer has seen the book and thought it was trimmed as well... not 100% certain... but thought it was... also a few other "problems" with the book...

 

working on this again after my depo this afternoon.

[Mr. Zipper]

Interesting.

 

The outcropped tag of paper would be a clever ruse to divert someone away from the possibility of trimming.

[Scheradon]

I have a book with the exact same kind of problem. If someone were to cut that off, would that be considered trimming? What if they just tore it off?

 

If you cut it off CGC does consider it trimming.

 

What if it just got bent back and forth so much that it "fell" off?

 

 

Right... where does one draw the line between "trimming" and "neatly torn?"

 

In a midgrade book like this, I suspect if the extra paper was neatly folded back, it may not impact the grade at all.

 

That's what I did with my book. I just folded it back into the book, but I wanted to tear it off, cause IMO, it's extra paper that shouldn't really be there. I can imagine that many kids back in the day would have torn or cut off the extra paper. Heck, over time, I could see it getting bent back and forth enough to pretty much fall or come neatly off.

 

So, I'm half joking and half being serious with the question of where it falls.

[Scheradon]

Interesting.

 

The outcropped tag of paper would be a clever ruse to divert someone away from the possibility of trimming.

 

True, cause you'd think that'd be the first thing to go.

[Ze-man]

What a neat, possibly weird story..I sure hope Brian is wrong.. what a mess if he isn't though.

 

 

And regarding removing that extra paper.. I imagine if it were bent back and forth a little to the point it fell off it would just be downgraded if necessary.

 

One cannot obviously trim an entire edge by folding it back and forth (well you could but it sure would look gnarly) So my first thought would be that removing that extra paper by folding it back and forth till it fell off would not garner a trimmed notation.

 

Ze-

[TeddieMercede]

It certainly seems to be not beyond dealers to fall prey to the idea of a " good story " behind a finding of a special book like a Detective 27. Everyone wants to hear about searching the attic or the basement and getting a book like this one. You want it to be true so bad you may let your eyes deceive you as to what is actually going on with the book before you. Heres hoping what Brian is saying isnt the case with the book but Im guessing many times these types of stories are too good to be true.

[Foolkiller]

It certainly seems to be not beyond dealers to fall prey to the idea of a " good story " behind a finding of a special book like a Detective 27. Everyone wants to hear about searching the attic or the basement and getting a book like this one. You want it to be true so bad you may let your eyes deceive you as to what is actually going on with the book before you. Heres hoping what Brian is saying isnt the case with the book but Im guessing many times these types of stories are too good to be true.

 

Let me just say that I'm also hoping I'm wrong... but the book is too big not to be at least running down the information and figuring out the truth.

[Transplant]

How long do you think a seller like this has to make up his mind. A couple of hours? A couple of days/weeks? Especially if you believe the story told by the seller, then a dealer may have to act fast (same day) to buy the book. I always question why someone who is knowledgeable that the book is valuable is willing to sell it rather than auction it.

[Mephisto]

Cause then Uncle Sam might want a cut of the action.

[Point Five]

Let me just say that I'm also hoping I'm wrong... but the book is too big not to be at least running down the information and figuring out the truth.

 

Kudos in advance for pursuing this, Brian. I hope this doesn't end badly for the buyer.

[MrBedrock]

I have a book with the exact same kind of problem. If someone were to cut that off, would that be considered trimming? What if they just tore it off?

 

If you cut it off CGC does consider it trimming.

 

What if it just got bent back and forth so much that it "fell" off?

 

 

Right... where does one draw the line between "trimming" and "neatly torn?"

 

In a midgrade book like this, I suspect if the extra paper was neatly folded back, it may not impact the grade at all.

 

That's what I did with my book. I just folded it back into the book, but I wanted to tear it off, cause IMO, it's extra paper that shouldn't really be there. I can imagine that many kids back in the day would have torn or cut off the extra paper. Heck, over time, I could see it getting bent back and forth enough to pretty much fall or come neatly off.

 

So, I'm half joking and half being serious with the question of where it falls.

 

There is a Church Action Comics (77? or so) that was printed with the top back cover folded over so that when it was folded out there was about two inches of extra paper on each side of the corner. At some point in the past someone cut the extra paper off with scissors. Admittedly it wasn't a great job and the cut was fairly obvious, but there was enough paper left that all of the original paper was still there that would have been there if the book was cut right in the first place. (I hope that makes sense.) Anyway, it got a purple label and the dreaded "trimmed" note. And continued to do so after multiple resubs and debate.

[Scheradon]

I have a book with the exact same kind of problem. If someone were to cut that off, would that be considered trimming? What if they just tore it off?

 

If you cut it off CGC does consider it trimming.

 

What if it just got bent back and forth so much that it "fell" off?

 

 

Right... where does one draw the line between "trimming" and "neatly torn?"

 

In a midgrade book like this, I suspect if the extra paper was neatly folded back, it may not impact the grade at all.

 

That's what I did with my book. I just folded it back into the book, but I wanted to tear it off, cause IMO, it's extra paper that shouldn't really be there. I can imagine that many kids back in the day would have torn or cut off the extra paper. Heck, over time, I could see it getting bent back and forth enough to pretty much fall or come neatly off.

 

So, I'm half joking and half being serious with the question of where it falls.

 

There is a Church Action Comics (77? or so) that was printed with the top back cover folded over so that when it was folded out there was about two inches of extra paper on each side of the corner. At some point in the past someone cut the extra paper off with scissors. Admittedly it wasn't a great job and the cut was fairly obvious, but there was enough paper left that all of the original paper was still there that would have been there if the book was cut right in the first place. (I hope that makes sense.) Anyway, it got a purple label and the dreaded "trimmed" note. And continued to do so after multiple resubs and debate.

 

That's interesting. Makes me wonder why then, it's okay to remove a double cover.

 

That type of trimming wouldn't bother me a bit as long as it was just confined to the production error.

[MrBedrock]

I have a book with the exact same kind of problem. If someone were to cut that off, would that be considered trimming? What if they just tore it off?

 

If you cut it off CGC does consider it trimming.

 

What if it just got bent back and forth so much that it "fell" off?

 

 

Right... where does one draw the line between "trimming" and "neatly torn?"

 

In a midgrade book like this, I suspect if the extra paper was neatly folded back, it may not impact the grade at all.

 

That's what I did with my book. I just folded it back into the book, but I wanted to tear it off, cause IMO, it's extra paper that shouldn't really be there. I can imagine that many kids back in the day would have torn or cut off the extra paper. Heck, over time, I could see it getting bent back and forth enough to pretty much fall or come neatly off.

 

So, I'm half joking and half being serious with the question of where it falls.

 

There is a Church Action Comics (77? or so) that was printed with the top back cover folded over so that when it was folded out there was about two inches of extra paper on each side of the corner. At some point in the past someone cut the extra paper off with scissors. Admittedly it wasn't a great job and the cut was fairly obvious, but there was enough paper left that all of the original paper was still there that would have been there if the book was cut right in the first place. (I hope that makes sense.) Anyway, it got a purple label and the dreaded "trimmed" note. And continued to do so after multiple resubs and debate.

 

That's interesting. Makes me wonder why then, it's okay to remove a double cover.

 

That type of trimming wouldn't bother me a bit as long as it was just confined to the production error.

 

I agree. And in similar fields (particularly baseball cards) it appears to be okay to cut cards from uncut sheets and not get the restored designation. But for comics, it is restoration if you remove something that wasn't meant to be there in the first place. It's one of the things that makes our hobby unique.