Killing Joke insanity, part deux

[Artemaria]

It is interesting that two fairly rare KJ pages are for sale within a few months of each other. One possible explanation is that some people with some nice collectibles feel that this is about the peak of the market and a good time to cash out.

 

It is a tough call to say whether this page will go for more or less than the other.

 

 

 

Pros:

 

This is one of the most memorable pages in the book.

 

Last page.

 

Arguably, this is the page on which the "killing joke" is told and is fairly important to the story.

 

Nine panels means more Bolland art.

 

 

 

 

Cons:

 

Batman is not in every panel.

 

No fight scene.

 

Not much Joker.

 

Some panels are just background scenes.

 

More panels.

 

Poor condition (comparatively).

 

 

 

In sum: I'd say it goes for a notable percentage less than the other page, primarily on condition issues.

 

 

- A

 

 

 

 

[vodou]

All this talk about condition. Do any of you really think that somebody ponying up $25k-$35k to buy the art would have a problem tacking on an additional $500-$1k to have the page completely and professionally deacidified, conserved, whitened, etc? Any major city is FULL of museum conservators looking for some extra nights/weekend cash to perform museum quality clean-up for fair prices.

 

The only thing the present condition does is potentially scare down the final hammer artificially. Heritage should have advised the seller to get it cleaned up first, then simply disclosed in the auction description what was done. As long as the work was done by a pro and fully documented, the "eye appeal" would have far overcome any possible condition doubt. And the piece would be stabilized.

[Nexus]

Question for the group about this page: Are Batman and Joker hugging each other or is Batman strangling Joker? I always read it as the former, but when someone suggested the latter, the end took on a whole new meaning. And makes this page a whole lot cooler.

 

(I actually know the answer to this based on someone's review of Moore's -script. I'll reveal it later.)

 

To me, if the ending really is these two mortal enemies sharing an embrace, then I like the other page a whole lot better. If it's Batman throttling Joker...I still like that other page better! Just not as much.

 

The other page was perfectly balanced to me. Equal shots of Batman and Joker. And although it's Batman being the aggressor in the bottom panel, Joker is clearly preparing a defensive counterattack.

 

I still believe it to be one of the best pages in the whole book. I don't think this current page should be valued the same and I'll be very surprised if it finishes anywhere near the last one.

[tth2]

All this talk about condition. Do any of you really think that somebody ponying up $25k-$35k to buy the art would have a problem tacking on an additional $500-$1k to have the page completely and professionally deacidified, conserved, whitened, etc? Any major city is FULL of museum conservators looking for some extra nights/weekend cash to perform museum quality clean-up for fair prices.

 

The only thing the present condition does is potentially scare down the final hammer artificially. Heritage should have advised the seller to get it cleaned up first, then simply disclosed in the auction description what was done. As long as the work was done by a pro and fully documented, the "eye appeal" would have far overcome any possible condition doubt. And the piece would be stabilized.

Thanks for posting this, because I was wondering the same thing myself. Since this is original art and restoration does not carry the stigma that it does for comics, why would people care about the condition as long as it's not in danger of materially deteriorating between now and delivery?

[Solar]

All this talk about condition. Do any of you really think that somebody ponying up $25k-$35k to buy the art would have a problem tacking on an additional $500-$1k to have the page completely and professionally deacidified, conserved, whitened, etc? Any major city is FULL of museum conservators looking for some extra nights/weekend cash to perform museum quality clean-up for fair prices.

 

The only thing the present condition does is potentially scare down the final hammer artificially. Heritage should have advised the seller to get it cleaned up first, then simply disclosed in the auction description what was done. As long as the work was done by a pro and fully documented, the "eye appeal" would have far overcome any possible condition doubt. And the piece would be stabilized.

 

Agree 100%

[comix4fun]

All this talk about condition. Do any of you really think that somebody ponying up $25k-$35k to buy the art would have a problem tacking on an additional $500-$1k to have the page completely and professionally deacidified, conserved, whitened, etc? Any major city is FULL of museum conservators looking for some extra nights/weekend cash to perform museum quality clean-up for fair prices.

 

The only thing the present condition does is potentially scare down the final hammer artificially. Heritage should have advised the seller to get it cleaned up first, then simply disclosed in the auction description what was done. As long as the work was done by a pro and fully documented, the "eye appeal" would have far overcome any possible condition doubt. And the piece would be stabilized.

 

 

I don't know about you but I am not comfortable spending $2500 much less $25000 on the assumption, from a scan, that the damage we see is reversible, able to be fixed, or anything less than permanent.

 

You are right, I would have no problem spending $1000 or more to have a piece like this fixed and saved. I just don't know if anyone can look at a scan and assume the severity of the damage and if this is something that can be reversed.

 

If this were yellowing overall, or browning on the edges I would know what I am dealing with. That "shroud effect" visible from the back and outlining the inks on the front, frankly, scares the hell out of me.

 

Anyone spending $25-35k on a piece should be just as cautious, I would think.

 

C

[Kevin76]

I kinda agree here..I mean for 25-35K, you should hold out for another KJ page if you want one that bad, they come along... very slowly but they show up.

[comix4fun]

I kinda agree here..I mean for 25-35K, you should hold out for another KJ page if you want one that bad, they come along... very slowly but they show up.

 

 

I actually think what the last page sold for is the reason we are seeing this page.

 

That $35k winning bid shook the tree pretty hard...I would not be shocked if Heritage gets a couple more of these because of that past success.

 

C

[*paull*]

That's some serious money for a twenty year old piece of art. I can see why it's not hard to look at that KJ page on the wall and think about how it can be traded in for a house down payment.

[Artemaria]

That's some serious money for a twenty year old piece of art. I can see why it's not hard to look at that KJ page on the wall and think about how it can be traded in for a house down payment.

 

What kind of house can you get with a $30k down payment these days?

[tth2]

That's some serious money for a twenty year old piece of art. I can see why it's not hard to look at that KJ page on the wall and think about how it can be traded in for a house down payment.

 

What kind of house can you get with a $30k down payment these days?

The kind that have wheels?

[chromium]

That's some serious money for a twenty year old piece of art. I can see why it's not hard to look at that KJ page on the wall and think about how it can be traded in for a house down payment.

 

What kind of house can you get with a $30k down payment these days?

 

 

 

[*paull*]

That's some serious money for a twenty year old piece of art. I can see why it's not hard to look at that KJ page on the wall and think about how it can be traded in for a house down payment.

 

What kind of house can you get with a $30k down payment these days?

 

Have you seen the real estate market recently?

 

$30K is obviously a 10% down payment on a $300,000 house. Forget about NYC or SF for a moment.

[Sharkey]

That's some serious money for a twenty year old piece of art. I can see why it's not hard to look at that KJ page on the wall and think about how it can be traded in for a house down payment.

 

What kind of house can you get with a $30k down payment these days?

 

Have you seen the real estate market recently?

 

$30K is obviously a 10% down payment on a $300,000 house. Forget about NYC or SF for a moment.

 

(thumbs u

 

Most of my family and my wife's family live in Iowa. Her parents BOUGHT a house in a small rural town a few years ago for $25k. So depending where you live, it'll do more than pay the downpayment!

 

Of course they hear me talk about the prices of comic art and think I'm completely nuts. Which I probably am.

[tth2]

Most of my family and my wife's family live in Iowa. Her parents BOUGHT a house in a small rural town a few years ago for $25k. So depending where you live, it'll do more than pay the downpayment!

Sounds great, except for the living in a small rural town in Iowa part.

[Sharkey]

Most of my family and my wife's family live in Iowa. Her parents BOUGHT a house in a small rural town a few years ago for $25k. So depending where you live, it'll do more than pay the downpayment!

Sounds great, except for the living in a small rural town in Iowa part.

I yam what I yam...

[tth2]

Most of my family and my wife's family live in Iowa. Her parents BOUGHT a house in a small rural town a few years ago for $25k. So depending where you live, it'll do more than pay the downpayment!

Sounds great, except for the living in a small rural town in Iowa part.

I yam what I yam...

You live in the third biggest city in America.

 

Or maybe fourth. That darn Houston seems to always creep up out of nowhere.

[brandolsn]

It will be interesting to see if condition affects price, I doubt it.

 

Condition is a factor in any piece. The more expensive the piece the bigger the factor.

 

C

 

for sure - one of a kind or not, it's not the only great page in the book - if an available original is in bad shape, I'll wait for another example - haven't been in a position before where I loved a page so much regardless of condition.

[cbac]

Depending on how rare the piece is, makes me accept worse condition, but it definitely affects my view and potential valuation of the art.

[Nexus]

Sold for $31,070 (with vig):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=826&Lot_No=43065