Killing Joke insanity, part deux

[spider9698]

The insanity continues.....

[comicartfan]

The insanity continues.....

 

And I don't see any end in sight...at least, not anytime soon !

[tth2]

The insanity continues.....

 

And I don't see any end in sight...at least, not anytime soon !

Wow, can you imagine what price it would have gone for if we didn`t have a rapidly deflating asset bubble as we speak!

 

Quick, someone call Hugh Grant and tell him to invest the proceeds from his Warhol into the even more rapidly appreciating field of comic OA!

[heartened]

Great page. Would have been higher if there weren't any condition/stat issues. Yes, these prices are insane, but it's all in the eye of the beholder (in other words, it depends on your income and the amount that's truly expendible). I think we have many more wealthy individuals in the hobby than we did, say, even 5 years ago.

 

[spider9698]

Hari

You are right. This auction was interesting from a few different fronts for me. I was watching it on HA live and was struck by the different numbers of bidders on high ticket items (not just OA but comics). What were thought to be aberrations (the first Heritage KJ page) were disproven with this auction (the second KJ page).

Not only does cream rise to the top, it overflows its container!

 

[spider9698]

I guess the one good thing that will come from this record run up in prices is that it will flush out more high-quality art for sale. Let's face it, once Heritage starts to get word out about the Peanuts sale, people will be digging out their Sundays and throwing them on ebay with BIN of $100K

 

[comix4fun]

I guess the one good thing that will come from this record run up in prices is that it will flush out more high-quality art for sale. Let's face it, once Heritage starts to get word out about the Peanuts sale, people will be digging out their Sundays and throwing them on ebay with BIN of $100K

 

 

Or they could just call the Schulz Museum directly and save themselves the listing fee.

 

C

[westform]

Chris; do you know for certain the museum is actually buying these at these levels? I know they print there own money, etc. But someone is bidding these up in conjunction with the estate. In my view, and from what I've heard the museum basically sets a floor price at what they will pay and then everyone else fights it out above that. Dan

[cheekyj2112]

I would have been surprised to see it go less than $26k even with the condition issue. And one I'd much rather have had than the more eye catching fight page sold in Heritage.

 

I'm just glad my girlfriend hadn't seen these prices when we putting together our flat deposit

 

 

If I had to start collecting today to put together my 80's want list I think I might give up before I started. I was looking at a acquintance's wish list which included Watchmen, Miracleman etc and wasn't quite sure how to break it to him that the entry points were about $5k+ apiece which made the list worth about $50k, assuming you could find the pieces in the first place.

 

I agree with Felix that it'll be interesting to see what the next nice Watchmen page goes for .

 

Joseph

[cheekyj2112]

Chris; do you know for certain the museum is actually buying these at these levels? I know they print there own money, etc. But someone is bidding these up in conjunction with the estate. In my view, and from what I've heard the museum basically sets a floor price at what they will pay and then everyone else fights it out above that. Dan

 

Dan

I think that's correct. I had dinner with one of the guys from the museum and he said that there was a ceiling beyond which they wouldn't usually go. They are well aware that pusuing all pieces at any cost, especially in a public auction, is simply going to fuel the spiralling prices and cost them more next time. They are partly looking for pieces from ceertain periods that illustrate themes or situations that they don't already own ie baseball, snowballing etc which might convince them to go a bit harder since they need them for exhibits.

So essentially if you want something badly enough you can outbid them, tho at $100k that's more desire to own something than I have

 

Joseph

[comix4fun]

Chris; do you know for certain the museum is actually buying these at these levels? I know they print there own money, etc. But someone is bidding these up in conjunction with the estate. In my view, and from what I've heard the museum basically sets a floor price at what they will pay and then everyone else fights it out above that. Dan

 

They do print their own money....Charles Shulz, even being deceased, was the 3rd highest money earner amongst dead celebs behind only Elvis and John Lennon with $35 million earned just in the last year. And that money continues to roll in every year. They can spend $2-4 million on OA every year and they won't be burning through the interest on their money much less their income.

 

Knowing more than one person that has sold to them directly, they have a mission to gather up anything and everything that was a published Shulz original. They put a premium on pieces from a certain era or with certain content, but they want it all. They have, more than once, paid over and above past auction level in direct sales with no counter bidder or competition.

 

They might talk about floor prices, but when pushed to it they seem to reach the ceiling without much nudging. Given their means and their desire to put the portfolio back together it makes sense.

 

C

 

EDIT: PS.....as Joe said they don't want to drive up their own market but they have done it on several occasions and I have heard the "ceiling" talk a few times, usually just before a piece is purchased at some new record....

 

Maybe $100k per sunday will cool them off.

[Jesusjon]

They are partly looking for pieces from ceertain periods that illustrate themes or situations that they don't already own ie baseball, snowballing etc

 

Holy smokes! I didn't know the Peanuts strips were so...dirty!! I may need to look into these again...

[spider9698]

Chris

I am sure the Museum's party line is: "Of course we have a ceiling limit!!" You can imagine the frenzy and the shilling that would go on if their comment was: "We refuse to be outbid on any Schultz piece."

 

It reminds me of the wild crazy days of the vintage animation art frenzy in the late 80's/early 90s. Russ Cochran was repping a few big time collectors (Spielberg, Michael Jackson) at the Christies and Sotheby's auctions. When the big pieces came up for sale, he would stand up, walk up to the auction podium and turn and face the crowd with his paddle up. An effective way of saying "f-you to whoever thinks they will outbid me." Well, I knew a few collectors who said, "He wants it so bad, let's make him pay" and drove up the bidding knowing full well that Russ was still winning the piece. It was not healthy for the market as a whole since pieces were selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Of course once the big dogs had their fill, there was a HUGE vacuum and prices came crashing down.

 

History can have a way of repeating itself.

 

 

[westform]

Yes, but will the museum, which in effect prints it's own money with the intent on buying everything ever tire???

 

Having said that, I've never seen a market where you lament, 'damn, I wish I had bought one 2 months ago....' Usually, you have to wait at least a year or two for prices to climb like they have to foment such regrets.

[Showponysydnee]

Chris

 

 

It reminds me of the wild crazy days of the vintage animation art frenzy in the late 80's/early 90s. Russ Cochran was repping a few big time collectors (Spielberg, Michael Jackson) at the Christies and Sotheby's auctions. When the big pieces came up for sale, he would stand up, walk up to the auction podium and turn and face the crowd with his paddle up. An effective way of saying "f-you to whoever thinks they will outbid me." Well, I knew a few collectors who said, "He wants it so bad, let's make him pay" and drove up the bidding knowing full well that Russ was still winning the piece. It was not healthy for the market as a whole since pieces were selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Of course once the big dogs had their fill, there was a HUGE vacuum and prices came crashing down.

 

"History can have a way of repeating itself".

 

The main difference is supply and demand. While many animation cells wound up in landfills, many pages of original art are still unaccounted for and the stories of actual destruction haven't cited specific pages which were destroyed. It takes 100's of cells to make up a memorable scene. There is ONLY ONE original art page. Comparing mediums, it is also it is easier to bridge the gap between pen and ink (or pencils) and what is considered acceptable fine art vs. hand drawn cell"s.

[Mighty Hal]

But what is the supply and demand of comic OA? Is it anything like the animation art frenzy of the 1980's, with a handful of Big Money guys showing interest?

 

And if the Big Money guys go away, will the 30K panel pages go with them?

[spider9698]

Although the vast majority of animation art was destroyed, Disney made a point of keeping an archive as well as having a program in which cels were sold through thier art program. In addition although each scene had hundreds of cels, there was only one painted production background per scene. The cream of the animation art market were these key cel and background setups. These were the items that went for $100K +++ because of perceived scarcity. However, once the big buyers had their fill the market dried up. When Canadian collector Herbert Black sold his collection in Sotheby's in 1992, he took a bath when there were no high rollers willing to buy the material.

 

[tth2]

It reminds me of the wild crazy days of the vintage animation art frenzy in the late 80's/early 90s. Russ Cochran was repping a few big time collectors (Spielberg, Michael Jackson) at the Christies and Sotheby's auctions. When the big pieces came up for sale, he would stand up, walk up to the auction podium and turn and face the crowd with his paddle up. An effective way of saying "f-you to whoever thinks they will outbid me." Well, I knew a few collectors who said, "He wants it so bad, let's make him pay" and drove up the bidding knowing full well that Russ was still winning the piece.

What the heck was he thinking? If I were his client, I would`ve let him pull this stunt ONCE before walking away from him forever. Unless, of course, I was also secretly selling in the auction.

[dem1138]

I will say that I saw some UNBELEVABLE art in a very short time at the NYC show so far this weekend (I think it was just fortuitous timing). I believe that some great art is being shaken out...only some of it already sold by the time I saw it so it seems that, as we are seeing, the A+/A stuff sells as quickly as it's offered.

 

Case in point - Dan, that TOS Kirby/Sinnott page took - what? Not even a day for you to find a buyer for?!?!

 

 

[Showponysydnee]

David,

 

Keep in mind that this show was competing (to some degree) with the Heritage Auction on Friday.

For those of us who were not able to attend this weekend's show in NYC, could you (or anyone else) please cite some examples of A/A+ OA that were at this show and if possible prices (Sold & unsold)?

Thank You