Batman#1 - "glue at staple" - help!!

[The Black Hand ®]

I'm not sure what the issue is, beyond the original question (would CGC consider it resto? answer: yes). They've shown a scan, they've disclosed the glue, they've priced it accordingly. If it turns out there's color touch or a tear seal or something like that, then sure, the buyer would have a right to a refund. But I don't see why they should be obligated to refund money if the book comes back from CGC with a purple label that says "glue on spine". And if it didn't have the glue in the first place it would be priced higher, I imagine, reflecting the difference in value between unrestored and slightly restored.

 

If this weren't Metro it wouldn't have created such a polarized discussion, I suspect.

 

I view this thread more as an education for someone new at collecting. He's getting a lot of points of view on some really touchy and complicated collecting issues, including restoration. I remember calling a large dealer once asking if they were interested in buying a lightly resored book. They laughed and told me it was "a very common book and that being restored gave it the kiss of death". A few months later they had a copy of that book with even more restoration and I called and asked if they would come down on the price".Oh no" they said, " This is a tough and extremely undervalued book that we can't budge on". These same people once told me a book I bought was repaired and not restored. The point I'm trying to make is you always need to know what you're doing when you buy a high dollar item and you need to be aware of the resale potential, even if as a new collector you think that you will carry that book to your grave. Large dealers don't cgc certain books because it would have a negative impact on price. That means something to me. And someone new at collecting might not know that and might be able to negotiate better if he did, or know enough to wait for a better oppurtunity.

[Shield]

I'm not sure what the issue is, beyond the original question (would CGC consider it resto? answer: yes). They've shown a scan, they've disclosed the glue, they've priced it accordingly. If it turns out there's color touch or a tear seal or something like that, then sure, the buyer would have a right to a refund. But I don't see why they should be obligated to refund money if the book comes back from CGC with a purple label that says "glue on spine". And if it didn't have the glue in the first place it would be priced higher, I imagine, reflecting the difference in value between unrestored and slightly restored.

 

If this weren't Metro it wouldn't have created such a polarized discussion, I suspect.

 

I view this thread more as an education for someone new at collecting. He's getting a lot of points of view on some really touchy and complicated collecting issues, including restoration. I remember calling a large dealer once asking if they were interested in buying a lightly resored book. They laughed and told me it was "a very common book and that being restored gave it the kiss of death". A few months later they had a copy of that book with even more restoration and I called and asked if they would come down on the price".Oh no" they said, " This is a tough and extremely undervalued book that we can't budge on". These same people once told me a book I bought was repaired and not restored. The point I'm trying to make is you always need to know what you're doing when you buy a high dollar item and you need to be aware of the resale potential, even if as a new collector you think that you will carry that book to your grave. Large dealers don't cgc certain books because it would have a negative impact on price. That means something to me. And someone new at collecting might not know that and might be able to negotiate better if he did, or know enough to wait for a better oppurtunity.

 

That's you Vince, Mr. "Oppurtunity".

[1koko]

Just been through the thread and there is one thing missing from this discussion and that is a discussion about the price.

 

If Metro have disclosed all the work done on the book and the assumption here is it is just the glue the question is simply whether that price reflects the disclosure.

 

So if the glue makes the book a PLOD is the price consistent with a slight resto price?

 

If price reflects disclosure and you are happy with the condition and look of the book buy it. If not or you want to wait to see if a better book per buck appears don't buy it.

 

Well said George (thumbs u

 

Thanks,

 

by the way have a couple more pre-Hero Tecs on the way

 

oh George you didn't have to get me anything for my birthday

 

They aren't on your list 19 and 20

[Socratic Wonder]

Just been through the thread and there is one thing missing from this discussion and that is a discussion about the price.

 

If Metro have disclosed all the work done on the book and the assumption here is it is just the glue the question is simply whether that price reflects the disclosure.

 

So if the glue makes the book a PLOD is the price consistent with a slight resto price?

 

If price reflects disclosure and you are happy with the condition and look of the book buy it. If not or you want to wait to see if a better book per buck appears don't buy it.

 

Well said George (thumbs u

 

Thanks,

 

by the way have a couple more pre-Hero Tecs on the way

 

oh George you didn't have to get me anything for my birthday

 

They aren't on your list 19 and 20

 

 

OH never mind then

 

Did you pick up that windy ciy copy of #20 from Metro?

 

[1koko]

yes

[Socratic Wonder]

yes

 

 

 

[The Black Hand ®]

I'm not sure what the issue is, beyond the original question (would CGC consider it resto? answer: yes). They've shown a scan, they've disclosed the glue, they've priced it accordingly. If it turns out there's color touch or a tear seal or something like that, then sure, the buyer would have a right to a refund. But I don't see why they should be obligated to refund money if the book comes back from CGC with a purple label that says "glue on spine". And if it didn't have the glue in the first place it would be priced higher, I imagine, reflecting the difference in value between unrestored and slightly restored.

 

If this weren't Metro it wouldn't have created such a polarized discussion, I suspect.

 

I view this thread more as an education for someone new at collecting. He's getting a lot of points of view on some really touchy and complicated collecting issues, including restoration. I remember calling a large dealer once asking if they were interested in buying a lightly resored book. They laughed and told me it was "a very common book and that being restored gave it the kiss of death". A few months later they had a copy of that book with even more restoration and I called and asked if they would come down on the price".Oh no" they said, " This is a tough and extremely undervalued book that we can't budge on". These same people once told me a book I bought was repaired and not restored. The point I'm trying to make is you always need to know what you're doing when you buy a high dollar item and you need to be aware of the resale potential, even if as a new collector you think that you will carry that book to your grave. Large dealers don't cgc certain books because it would have a negative impact on price. That means something to me. And someone new at collecting might not know that and might be able to negotiate better if he did, or know enough to wait for a better oppurtunity.

 

That's you Vince, Mr. "Oppurtunity".

 

 

Is this friendly banter time, Shawn? I think people here might not know that Shawn and I go way back. In fact, we went to different schools together.

[TupennyConan]

Well, Metro always makes for a fun thread.

 

Now, to really spice things up, what if he buys it and sends it to Matt for glue-removal, hmmmmmm?

 

Metro & Matt in the same thread!!! YES!!!

[KingOfRulers]

...Then to Ewert for trimming!

[DrWatson]

Well, Metro always makes for a fun thread.

 

Now, to really spice things up, what if he buys it and sends it to Matt for glue-removal, hmmmmmm?

 

Metro & Matt in the same thread!!! YES!!!

...Then to Ewert for trimming!

A recipe sure to turn any thread into one unholy cluster .

[grimstar-migration]

If you believe that the Metro return policy is "if you're not happy with the book, just return it", it must be because you forgot to take your meds today.

[The Black Hand ®]

If you believe that the Metro return policy is "if you're not happy with the book, just return it", it must be because you forgot to take your meds today.

 

I'm not a big metro fan, but I returned a book once and never had any problems doing it.

[grimstar-migration]

Any book that a reputable dealer is selling as an unrestored book, even if they note

minor glue at staple, should come with a full return policy if it receives PLOD from CGC.

 

Many collectors rely on the dealers to know if the book is restored or not.

 

If Metro is selling a book without designating it as restored, regardless of disclosure, and they refuse to allow it to be returned if it does turn out to be a restored book, then, IMHO, they have breached their moral obligation to the buyer.

If new collectors believe they are being taken advantage by one of the giants of our industry, how can we expect to expand our membership base?

 

Does anyone on this thread truly believe that Metro doesn't know what the CGC label will ultimately be after careful review of the glue?

 

Personally, I stopped buying raw books from Metro long ago.

 

Nuff said.

[TupennyConan]

If you just entered the hobby and are in the market for a Batman #1, unrestored, & are considering one with a Metro price tag, to keep & not resell, maybe to slab but maybe not, does that make you a hobbyist, collector, speculator or investor?

 

[blazingbob]

CGC's label states that a book with "very minor" color touch or glue may be assigned a marked and color coded universal label, however the description of the restoration will be noted on the label.

 

Define "very minor" in CGC grading standards and then translate that into measureable ruler terms.

 

Depending on the definition of "very minor" the book could come back Blue or come back purple.

 

 

 

 

[Filter81]

To me, the phrasing of "Someone has put glue at the staple. Otherwise, it is unrestored." sounds more ambiguous than necessary. Why not just say "its been slightly restored due to some glue at the staple"?

 

Personally, when I first started on eBay I purchased a raw book described as "slight dot of color touch, otherwise unrestored" and when I purchased it I was expecting a blue label back (with label notes) from CGC. There are blue label CGC books out there that say slight amount of color touch, or very small amount of glue and it can be very confusing for someone who's new to the hobby.

 

Obviously at the end of the day it is the buyer's responsibility to do his homework and know what he is buying (as was done in this case), but surely after decades as the self-proclaimed biggest dealer in the hobby, Metropolis could come up with a less ambiguous way of saying the book is restored? (Maybe come up with a description for a restored book that doesn't actually use the word "unrestored" to describe the book?) (This is all based on the assumption that this book would garner a purple label from CGC if sent in, which is the impression I got after reading Fishler's response? If this would be a blue label book with notes, obviously it was described correctly.)

 

As far as whether this was simply a poor choice of wording or written that way intentionally or what, I'm certainly in no position to say. As 1koko suggested, the price the book was offered to the buyer at might provide some insight here.

 

Was the book offered to the buyer at around what a restored VG Bat 1 would sell for? ($6000ish) or was it offered for more like what an unrestored Bat 1 VG would sell for? $12kish)?

[showcase4]

CGC's label states that a book with "very minor" color touch or glue may be assigned a marked and color coded universal label, however the description of the restoration will be noted on the label.

 

Define "very minor" in CGC grading standards and then translate that into measureable ruler terms.

 

Depending on the definition of "very minor" the book could come back Blue or come back purple.

 

 

Exactly why all the guess work would be taken out if CGC reserved books with ANY resto to be Purple, and UNRESTORED to be Blue. I don't know how much company I have on this; some would say 'extreme' view, but it seems like things would be a whole lot simpler if the blue label with glue/color touch game wasn't being played. You can't be a little pregnant

[The Black Hand ®]

CGC's label states that a book with "very minor" color touch or glue may be assigned a marked and color coded universal label, however the description of the restoration will be noted on the label.

 

Define "very minor" in CGC grading standards and then translate that into measureable ruler terms.

 

Depending on the definition of "very minor" the book could come back Blue or come back purple.

 

 

Exactly why all the guess work would be taken out if CGC reserved books with ANY resto to be Purple, and UNRESTORED to be Blue. I don't know how much company I have on this; some would say 'extreme' view, but it seems like things would be a whole lot simpler if the blue label with glue/color touch game wasn't being played. You can't be a little pregnant

 

Without a doubt this is the way cgc should do it, otherwise the potential for abuse or favoritism, even if unfounded, could come into play.

[ciorac]

To me, the phrasing of "Someone has put glue at the staple. Otherwise, it is unrestored." sounds more ambiguous than necessary. Why not just say "its been slightly restored due to some glue at the staple"?

 

Personally, when I first started on eBay I purchased a raw book described as "slight dot of color touch, otherwise unrestored" and when I purchased it I was expecting a blue label back (with label notes) from CGC. There are blue label CGC books out there that say slight amount of color touch, or very small amount of glue and it can be very confusing for someone who's new to the hobby.

 

Obviously at the end of the day it is the buyer's responsibility to do his homework and know what he is buying (as was done in this case), but surely after decades as the self-proclaimed biggest dealer in the hobby, Metropolis could come up with a less ambiguous way of saying the book is restored? (Maybe come up with a description for a restored book that doesn't actually use the word "unrestored" to describe the book?) (This is all based on the assumption that this book would garner a purple label from CGC if sent in, which is the impression I got after reading Fishler's response? If this would be a blue label book with notes, obviously it was described correctly.)

 

As far as whether this was simply a poor choice of wording or written that way intentionally or what, I'm certainly in no position to say. As 1koko suggested, the price the book was offered to the buyer at might provide some insight here.

 

Was the book offered to the buyer at around what a restored VG Bat 1 would sell for? ($6000ish) or was it offered for more like what an unrestored Bat 1 VG would sell for? $12kish)?

 

If you have an unrestored Batman 1 in VG(with nice pages) for 12kish............

[Dad&Son-migration]

CGC's label states that a book with "very minor" color touch or glue may be assigned a marked and color coded universal label, however the description of the restoration will be noted on the label.

 

Define "very minor" in CGC grading standards and then translate that into measureable ruler terms.

 

Depending on the definition of "very minor" the book could come back Blue or come back purple.

 

 

 

This is perfectly said !!!! (thumbs u

 

It's a matter of learning and adapting to those standards. People have to learn to roll with what CGC deems restored or not...