Shill? You tell me....

[awe4one]

He doesn't just have the key issues....he has all the issues from about 1970 onward. He focuses on the key issues because that's where the money's at and frankly didn't get much action when he listed other runs separate from ASM and X-Men.

 

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

It seems to me that by shilling so hard, he is distracting you from the fact that he seems to have unlimited copys of tese books. That,to me, should be the real story and cause for concern.

 

Certainly he's got a monster hoarde of 1970's comics, and by the "key issue" numbers, it's gotta be mini-MH2 levels for sure. He probably bought a store/warehouse and there was a roomful of "return" comics there, as he doesn't seem all that knwlodgeable about the books themselves.

 

I also wonder how much cash he's rung in, as he's sold tons of single lots over the years, most being key issues like X-Men 94, ASM 121, 122, 129. I did some quick math last night and this guy has raked some serious moola.

 

And yes, I won't gloat about the obvious hoarding and oversupply implications. It's been stated that two of his X-Men 94 books came back at CGC 9.6, and absolute tons at CGC 9.2-9.4, so that pretty well kills the usual "there no way these hoardes are still in HG" argument.

[awe4one]

He probably bought a store/warehouse and there was a roomful of "return" comics there, as he doesn't seem all that knwledgeable about the books themselves.

 

I would say "he didn't seem all that knowledgeable...". He certainly has become hip to their value based on the sudden rise in his BINs across the board.

 

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

I would say "he didn't seem all that knowledgeable...". He certainly has become hip to their value based on the sudden rise in his BINs across the board.

 

Sure, he's gotten more info on the valuation, but I meant in terms of the comic books and content. He probably has a few boxes of Hulk 181's that he hasn't even looked for yet.

[awe4one]

He probably has a few boxes of Hulk 181's that he hasn't even looked for yet.

 

I don't know......

 

I mentioned a couple of posts ago that he had "all" comics from 1970 on. I think "most all" would apply.

 

I've been tracking this guy's auctions from the beginning and it's curious by what he hasn't offered. He ran complete runs from ASM #97 to about #168 or so but other than his very first auctions, #101 was missing (I know he just offered one but

I bet that's a one off copy he found). His early X-Men runs were missing #95 and 101-103. Also, he evidently recently found his Hulk stacks but #180-182 were also missing and the run wasn't complete. If he had them I'm sure he would have offered them.

 

I could be wrong though.....he's surprised me before. I was willing to bet his X-Men hoard was done about 20 copies ago......and counting.

 

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

Also, he evidently recently found his Hulk stacks but #180-182 were also missing and the run wasn't complete. If he had them I'm sure he would have offered them.

 

I don't know about that, as I've seen others who fall into large collections place some aside and send them to CGC very slowly. You may see a certain run online and ask yourself why X issue isn't there, and then months later some issues trickle out in CGC form.

 

It's a pretty consistent pattern, as most people realize once the stash is identified, prices usually plummet.

 

I could be wrong though.....he's surprised me before. I was willing to bet his X-Men hoard was done about 20 copies ago......and counting.

 

It's the Neverending EBay Story. It boggles the mind how many copies he has and gives you just the tiniest inkling of what Chuck must have found in the MH2 collection. Thousands of individual, unread Key issues is something that it's tough to get your mind around.

[BronzeBruce13]

a short note to all:

 

in an effort to enjoy my time spent here at the forum and also not overload it with too many worthless disagreements, I'm "trying" to avoid unproductive discussions that go nowhere and devolve into BS. In cases where it appears that my prior opinions or statements have been twisted or misrepresented, I may post a link, exerpt, etc. I suspect this comment: so that pretty well kills the usual "there no way these hoards are still in HG" argument is likely directed at/attributed to me and I don't think its consistent with my remarks. If that quote was not directed at me, then I missed who said it and would like to see who did...

 

My views about possible condition of lots/hoards

 

an excerpt...

 

... I just don't think "too many" collectors were ultra-carefully handling/protecting/storing their books to the degree necessary to get a high percentage of 9.6/9.8 from a lot. As I understand... grading/condition awareness was not quite as strict going back as it is now and even the use of boards, etc. was not as commonplace either. ...

 

...Anyway, I can accept a steady 9.2 to 9.4 influx, some 9.6, and occasional higher grades emerging from these lots when/if they surface, but until I see differently... that's my impression "now". I'm not suggesting all lots were treated roughly either, there are obviously careful collectors and subsequently HG gems out there, but I have my doubts that there are as many "stashes" that will produce 9.6/9.8 quality books as some indicate.

[joe_collector]

I have many examples of where you and your cohorts laughed at the prospect of "newstand returns" having many HG issues and referred to the MH2 as a pile of VFs.

 

Please deny the above, please.

 

Otherwise, be a good little speculator and go stack your CGC comics.

[BronzeBruce13]

I don't know exactly what "others" said and I don't care what quotes you've saved from them, but I don't believe I laughed/mocked an opposing view. I offer an opinion but I don't have a closed mind... and am not afraid to consider an idea or information that makes more sense than my take at that moment... or seems more likely to be true. Good points/information influence my thinking and my opinon will change "if" I'm convinced of something.

 

Kindly don't lump my specific remarks into an overall consensus with others of similar views, that's a bit convoluted. You'd make a great politician with your ability to maneuver in a discussion.

 

...nice try with the "spec" comment. I'm not biting.

[awe4one]

in an effort to enjoy my time spent here at the forum and also not overload it with too many worthless disagreements, I'm "trying" to avoid unproductive discussions that go nowhere and devolve into BS. In cases where it appears that my prior opinions or statements have been twisted or misrepresented, I may post a link, exerpt, etc. I suspect this comment: so that pretty well kills the usual "there no way these hoards are still in HG" argument is likely directed at/attributed to me and I don't think its consistent with my remarks.

 

You know Bruce....I wasn't even thinking about you when JC made the remarks, and I even made the remark myself, because frankly you're not the only one to share that sentiment. Or even be as forceful making that argument than others. Now I can see this discussion, which up to this point had been civil, digressing like all the other like threads......

 

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

You know Bruce....I wasn't even thinking about you when JC made the remarks, and I even made the remark myself, because frankly you're not the only one to share that sentiment.

 

That's what I find most amusing. I make generic statements, and suddenly Bruce is taking it personally, like I punched him in the face.

 

It's important to note (as you did) that there are more people on the forums than just me and Bruce.

[awe4one]

I don't know about that, as I've seen others who fall into large collections place some aside and send them to CGC very slowly. You may see a certain run online and ask yourself why X issue isn't there, and then months later some issues trickle out in CGC form.

 

I seriously doubt he's submitting to CGC. If that was the case, he'd stop offering nice copies on eBay.

 

He really didn't know what he had or even where to sell them when he started. I was the one that got him to stop posting his auctions in the book section and move them to comics (there could be others but I doubt it). CGC is too much trouble for him based on our discussions and he's happy to get $400 for his #94 and let others do the flipping and submissions......

 

 

Jim

[BronzeBruce13]

It wont degrade because of me... promise. Vince can have the last word.

Point was... that was NOT my view and I believe it was directed at me. I made a "civil" clarification in my estimation. There's a difference between "HG" in general and 9.6/9.8.

 

 

Anyway, let's carry on with the discussion... sorry for the interruption.

 

Was it you that verified (2) 9.6 XM 94's from this seller? If so, was one a fortunate purchase of yours? How do you know? XM 94 is probably one of the most unexpected books to turn up in quantity. Even Vince didn't think it would.

 

Another question I have about these bulk discoveries, warehouse finds... How exactly did the return process of unsold books work? Were all the returns basically sent back to "one central source" then stored somewhere? Meaning... if a significant find is discovered, is that basically the majority of the unsold books of that issue all in one place...or were returns collected by multiple sites and distributed to different storage facilities, etc.?

 

When you compare the "confirmed/suspected finds" does it reveal that one find has certain issues in bulk and the other different ones (even if they both may have the same issue, like a 90/10% split) etc.? For instance, for as much as we "really know" about what/how much of what was really in the MH2 find... does a comparison to other warehouse finds/suspected hoards reveal anything?

[joe_collector]

Meaning... if a significant find is discovered, is that basically the majority of the unsold books of that issue all in one place...or were returns collected by multiple sites and distributed to different storage facilities, etc.?

 

I can answer this one:

 

In the 1970's at least, comic book returns were quite liberal, and the distros and retail stores could get away with murder. I know because a friend of mine's dad ran a corner store, and he had boxes of magazines, comics, etc. stored away that he got credit for.

 

Back then, trust and honor were valued a lot more than they are today. The owner didn't sell them, but was too busy to toss them out.

 

Now the distributors still got a lot of the books back, and in that case, they would be centralized somewhat, but you can still find old stores with tons of 70's issues in them. I know of a few around here alone.

[awe4one]

Was it you that verified (2) 9.6 XM 94's from this seller? If so, was one a fortunate purchase of yours? How do you know? XM 94 is probably one of the most unexpected books to turn up in quantity. Even Vince didn't think it would.

 

Yes I made the comment but didn't say both 9.6s were #94. One was #94 and the other was GS #1. I do not own the copies but the same person does (but I do own some very nice copies from the seller ). He is a frequent buyer from this seller and has been buying from him from the beginning like me. He also has gotten two 9.4s #94s and one 9.2 GS #1. He may have gotten others graded as I haven't asked him about them in a couple months. He hangs around this Forum from time to time and I'll let him "out" himself if he pleases.

 

I've also tracked other dealers that have bought from this seller and noticed them CGC graded as high as 9.4 and resold.

 

This shouldn't be news (at least it's surprising to me) hat no one other than Vince and myself have been looking at the seller. He's been selling for well over a year on eBay and hasn't made it a secret what he has. To be surprised now seems odd in a Forum that has members that scour eBay regularly. I even brought him up about a year ago during one of these "hoarding" threads and no one seemed to notice. I didn't mind......more for me.......

 

 

Jim

 

[BronzeBruce13]

Jim... I found "Gem Hunting" to be VERY trying and don't do it very much.

 

With the exception of... (3) Hulk 180's 9.6/9.4/9.4...(1) 181 9.4... ASM 300 9.8... (1) DD 131 9.4... (4) DD 168's 9.4's... (1) MTU 1 9.2... (2) PPSS 27 & 28 9.6... I have not had much success for the effort. I go straight for the CGC copies for the most part. I have respect (and a little envy) for those that can play that game and not get frustrated.

 

So... raw sources can go right under my radar if I'm not actively searching for the item on eBay and just perusing CGC offerings.

[awe4one]

I can't say I "gem hunt" and most all my eBay winnings are raw. But once I received my first package from this seller, I can literally say my mouth dropped. Very, VERY, nice copies that had never been opened before (the printing holes on the bottom of pages were still together). Anyone who has tracked this seller will notice that the same people (mostly dealers), including me (not a dealer), win his auctions. There's a reason for this.....

 

The general distain for eBay grading may have something to do with others not buying from him.....

 

Also, his grading has become very soft over the last three months. His VFs used to be NM-/NMs. Now I've noticed that his VFs are either VF- or, usually worse. Again, his greed may be getting the better of him as evidenced by his rampant shilling.

 

I will say this though....he has alot of copies that are inked and I had to buy multiple lots of the same issues to get unbroken runs of uninked copies. But boy.....I've got me a nice Bronze selection now........

 

 

Jim

 

 

[joe_collector]

Also, his grading has become very soft over the last three months. His VFs used to be NM-/NMs. Now I've noticed that his VFs are either VF- or, usually worse. Again, his greed may be getting the better of him as evidenced by his rampant shilling.

 

I agree totally. That dual-listing of X-Men 94/GS X-Men 1 (that I missed due to that scammer Canuck ) was probably his last really nice lot that was graded well. I've seen some pretty scummy issues listed of late, all with VF+ or VF/NM on them.

 

Basically, from the shilling and overgrading, I'm done looking at his auctions. I can buy VF CGC copies of many issues for less than his (cough) VF/NM copies are going for now.

[awe4one]

Basically, from the shilling and overgrading, I'm done looking at his auctions. I can buy VF CGC copies of many issues for less than his (cough) VF/NM copies are going for now.

 

I feel the same way...plus I already have copies (multiple in most cases) of what he's offering and a rather large supply of those that he hasn't. I'm not willing to pay his ever increasing prices for copies that aren't as nice as advertised anymore.

 

Ahhh....the good old days.....

 

 

Jim

[shadroch]

Meaning... if a significant find is discovered, is that basically the majority of the unsold books of that issue all in one place...or were returns collected by multiple sites and distributed to different storage facilities, etc.?

 

I can answer this one:

 

In the 1970's at least, comic book returns were quite liberal, and the distros and retail stores could get away with murder. I know because a friend of mine's dad ran a corner store, and he had boxes of magazines, comics, etc. stored away that he got credit for.

 

Back then, trust and honor were valued a lot more than they are today. The owner didn't sell them, but was too busy to toss them out.

 

Now the distributors still got a lot of the books back, and in that case, they would be centralized somewhat, but you can still find old stores with tons of 70's issues in them. I know of a few around here alone.

 

 

That is all true but only a partial answer.

In some cases, the books were never distributed. In the case of the MH2 collection, the ooks arrived at the distributors on pallets,went out the side door to a storage unit about 100 yards away and were stored there for several years. When Chuck bought them, there were many pallets that still had the original bindings on them.

These were not returns per say, but stolen property that had been reported destroyed.

I would agree that a Returned book-one that ws sent out,sat around a 7-11 for a week or two and then brought back by a driver would not be in HG, but not all returned boos were treated equally.

There was no central return warehouse,only several hundred(?) distributor warehouses.