619 Discussion - ***Spoilers***

[dam60]

I know DAM! Another failed attempt at humor by yours truly! I knew I shoulda used the grinning graemlin. Dammit!

 

Chris

 

WARNING: all attempts at humor are always lost on me

[Illiterati-migration]

I am a closet 100 Bullets groupie

 

Me too!

 

Chris

 

Chris, re-read my post I said "closet" you're hard core!

 

Why be closeted? It's one of the best books out there! Don't fear the philistines and their "OOO! WOLVERINE!" line of thinking!

 

 

[highlite23]

- On my copy (the gatefold cover), the identity of the mastermind is revealed on the right hand side page, while the build up is on the left hand side page. Surely a pagination goof, since they meant to maintain the mystery through a page turn that winds up not being there!

 

This does stink, considering that the newstand edition is seperated by an ad page leaving the mystery with your next page turn. Oh well.

[Ares]

- On my copy (the gatefold cover), the identity of the mastermind is revealed on the right hand side page, while the build up is on the left hand side page. Surely a pagination goof, since they meant to maintain the mystery through a page turn that winds up not being there!

 

Right hand page?

On mine I see Bandaged Elliot and Riddler on cover and as it unfolds I see Joker's big head at the end!

Did I get a Newstand gatefold?

 

 

But the way it ended sucked... It was like they could not think of a way to end it and just said the hell with it lets make it Riddler.

 

And Elliots reasons to hate wayne Really Really Sucks.....

I still dont get how Riddler figured it all out!!

 

IM SO CONFUSED!!!

 

[Zonker]

Just to clarify-- it's not a spoiler on any of the covers-- it's at the point in the book where the Riddler is revealed. On my version (which I tried to identify by describing the cover), the page to the left is laid out so you are not supposed to know who is speaking, but the page to the right shows the Riddler, so there is absolutely no surprise.

 

But as the post previous to yours notes, apparently the Newstand edition has an ad page separating those two story pages, therefore preserving the surprise.

 

(sorry I don't have the book in front of me to call out page numbers).

[Ares]

Just to clarify-- it's not a spoiler on any of the covers-- it's at the point in the book where the Riddler is revealed. On my version (which I tried to identify by describing the cover), the page to the left is laid out so you are not supposed to know who is speaking, but the page to the right shows the Riddler, so there is absolutely no surprise.

 

But as the post previous to yours notes, apparently the Newstand edition has an ad page separating those two story pages, therefore preserving the surprise.

 

(sorry I don't have the book in front of me to call out page numbers).

 

OK I see what you were talking about.

I saw that right away and thought WTF?

I guess they had a brain freeze or something.... Stupid ending.

Loved the Villans cover!!

[Edian]

...I think Jason was placed in the pit and will be back in Lee/Loeb's next Batman arc in 6 months or so. I think DC just wanted to test the waters here and make sure fans wouldnt go berzerk if they brought him back.

I think that Jason must keep dead, killing him was that fans want, not a writter.

[Edian]

Loved the reason for the Joker enlisting in the plot (the Jason Todd "gag").

Joker knows that Jason was Robin? I remember when Batman say to the Joker: I wasn't sure that you kill Robin(or he say Jason?), but now you confirmed.

[Aman619]

I agree: Jason is dead for good. Or at least a long time yet to come. Jim Lee used him as a false lead to make the obvious surprise villain a surprise again. I thought it was a good move.... but all the plot threads in HUSH IMO will not become 'real' in continuity until Jim Lee comes back with everything right where he left it.

 

after that? who knows... I can see Bats/Cats referring to their dalliance like Supes and WW do today years after the smooch in the sky and other flirtations..

[Edian]

Although the Riddler told Bats that Elliot was the primary pusher in this, I think it's strange again you don't see Elliot's face in the bandages and you don't see him die. I wonder if the Riddler was even telling the truth about all of that. I guess we'll see when Lee and Loeb return for their second arc. I can guess that Elliot will indeed return.

That's true, we don't see the face of Elliot, instead of just telling: I told you once to give it back or i'd hurth you so bad --- could be more interesting that he remove the bandages from his face and that way we all can see his face...at least that the writer wants that we all think he was Elliot and he don't.

 

By the way Elliot it's a good figther and a really good shooter, too good for me.

 

[Aman619]

I also think that Selina will ultimately become Batman's Lois Lane down the road, not any of ther other girfriends he's spent a few issues with here and there.

[supapimp]

I also think that Selina will ultimately become Batman's Lois Lane down the road, not any of ther other girfriends he's spent a few issues with here and there.

 

one word for you...TALIA

[hobbes]

I can see Bats/Cats referring to their dalliance like Supes and WW do today years after the smooch in the sky and other flirtations..

 

 

I agree. It was cool to see the two of them together though. I especially enjoyed the fact that Robin and Selina had an obvious dislike for each other. I would have enjoyed watching Robin kick her . No writer would do that though....

 

Russ

[Aman619]

I think as they are presently written (and ranked) Catwoman would beat Robin cause hes a kid. But, then again, cant remeber if Robin beat Shiva at some point, which would make Robin th efavorite since Shiva licked Selina' cute butt in HUSH.

 

Also, on this point, I have to admit I was wrong about something I wrote earlier about the HUSH storyline being self contained and out of continuity.. In the newest Superman/Batman #3, Batman beats up Lady Shiva commenting that he enjoyed it because of the beating Shiva gave Selina. Thats a direct reference to the HUSH storyline -- - so Lee and Loeb's plots pieces are fatr game in the Batman continuity.

[Aman619]

one word for you...TALIA

 

youre right, shes definitely a contender. BUT, of the two, unless Talia gets a serious rewrite as a hero, not just a bad guys semi-wiling daughter moonlighting for Luthor, she would never be "DC acceptable" as Mrs Batman when the sad time comes and Grandpa Bruce settles down.

 

Its actually not too far off is it? I mean, for a loner he sure has assembled a big family around him, hasnt he? Alfred's already making jokes about it. Once Nightwing or Robin has a kid, and he adopts 2 or three more hero dependents to his "team" he oughtta be ready ( the writers at least) to take a step back and enjoy his success. He can always be pulled back in, Michael Corleone-style.

[seank]

I'd love to see a "Bat-implosion." Let's dump the new Batgirl and the Huntress. Send Nightwing off to the Titans or Bludsausage or whatever that town is. Get real with Barbara Gordon and dump the Oracle thing. It's a crutch for weak writing: "Hmm, I can't figure out a way for Batman to get that information. I'll have him call Oracle."

 

Let's have the Batwriters take a look at the 1970s Batmans. The early Denny O'Neil stuff, the Rogers/Englehart Detectives, the mid-late 70s David Reed stories. When Batman was truly a dark detective and story mattered. Then we can get away from this Hush-style garbage.

 

What I'd like to see is Batman with Alfred always and Robin occassionally. Let's keep Catwoman out of Batman comics for now also. I love the Catwoman series and I love what they've done with the character, but it now no longer fits the Batman comics. Keep her in her own corner of Gotham.

 

As for Batgirl. I want a Batgirl Year One series. Barbara Gordon is the one and only Batgirl. DC has often undone years of continuity and ignore one-shot books. They can easily undo or ignore Killing Joke.

 

As for girllfriends for Bruce Wayne, I vote for the return of Silver St. Cloud. Or Julie Madison.

[Foolkiller]

There already has been (or is it out currently) a Batgirl Year One mini series. As for rewriting continuity... I would be against undoing a siginificant moment in Bat history... but then again, if they resurrect Jason Todd... hell why not repair Barbara's spine too.

[seank]

Yes, there was a Batgirl Year One series. Which I loved. Making it an ongoing series would be a way to give Batgirl fans what they want without having to undo the Killing Joke. Kind of like Legends of the Dark Knight is for Batman.

[Aman619]

Sean, you are assking for a 180 degree course correction for the whole Batman line. I dont think its in the carsd very soon...but certainly a simplification will occur once sales die to the point that necessitates such a drastic change in direction. Im liking the stories generally, but it is getting a little crowded in the Batcave. There was actually a scene with 4 of them sirtting at a conference table in th ecave discussing how to go about a case. Thats a little too corporate for a non-team team.

[Aman619]

I reread the Riddler reveal pages and he states that Tommy was HUSH, but th eplan was Riddler's. And he guessed Batmans identity in a moment of clarity upon emerging from the Lazarus pit. It was the answer to the greatest riddle of them all.