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Weakening art sales rattle Sotheby's, Christie's

Started by mjacobs8,

32 posts in this topic

Shootydog

Shootydog

Posted
Posted

Seems to me the article starts with an alarmist premise and by the end refutes that very statement. Is everything upside down in the Art world? Nope, everything is fine, nothing to see here.

 

Im not even certain there can be a corollary drawn between what is inarguably the highest form of art collection and our hobby. These unique pieces from some of the greatest artists of the ages (regardless of medium) command staggering prices and are loved by all people. Noone, once viewing one of these great pieces, is able to deny the mastery and awe that one senses. If anyone doubts that I would implore them to visit a museum and they will see at least one piece that gives them a feeling that transcends anything ever experience from a piece of comic art.

 

Once the prices for OA comic art reach these pinnacles of universal recognition I see no possible way to effectively compare the two.

 

IMHO, of course.

 

ps. Thanks for starting this topic. I would so dearly love to own one of these wonderful pieces of art history but it would never happen. I couldnt afford a paint flake fallen from one of these pieces. :applause:

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Doctor Svord

Doctor Svord

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Im not even certain there can be a corollary drawn between what is inarguably the highest form of art collection and our hobby. These unique pieces from some of the greatest artists of the ages (regardless of medium) command staggering prices and are loved by all people. Noone, once viewing one of these great pieces, is able to deny the mastery and awe that one senses. If anyone doubts that I would implore them to visit a museum and they will see at least one piece that gives them a feeling that transcends anything ever experience from a piece of comic art.

 

Bravo. Well put Shootydog. I couldn't agree more.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Whoa! :o

 

Sotheby's was particularly rattled by the lackluster evening: its share price plunged the next day by 38 percent.

 

The company on friday reported that, mainly due to a 14.6 million dollar loss on guarantees for this week's auction, it recorded a third quarter loss of 20.9 million dollars.

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Shootydog

Shootydog

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Does Sotheby's now own the paintings that didn't meet their guarantee?

 

I wouldnt think so. Arent most of those pieces put up as consignment? Its my guess that they reported these guarantees as expected revenue and then failed to meet that guarantee. Thus, the bottom line being affected.

 

Ill have to ask my wife. She digs this business stuff.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Does Sotheby's now own the paintings that didn't meet their guarantee?

 

They do now. lol

 

Often, the company "guarantees" a painting, meaning if it does not sell for a certain price, Sotheby's will buy it.

 

The company said these guarantees cost $14.6 million because of the unsold paintings at the auction on Wednesday.

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Thegoldenage

Thegoldenage

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Weakening art sales rattle Sotheby's, Christie's

 

Your thoughts on how this might relate to our hobby.

 

My thoughts? I am not at all surprised this happened. The art market has been going gangbusters for several years, with record after record being set. Couple that with unrelenting hype, and a correction was long overdue.

 

As it relates to the comic book hobby? I think it is a cautionary tale. ANY hobby, from vintage art to classic cars goes through ups and downs. The comic book hobby has had it share over the years for sure, and a down market will happen again.

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Shootydog

Shootydog

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Does Sotheby's now own the paintings that didn't meet their guarantee?

 

They do now. lol

 

Often, the company "guarantees" a painting, meaning if it does not sell for a certain price, Sotheby's will buy it.

 

The company said these guarantees cost $14.6 million because of the unsold paintings at the auction on Wednesday.

 

Ohhhh.....too bad for them. doh!

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Could they not resell the paintings at a later date to recoup the loss?

 

Of course, but it can hammer your bottom line, and most likely, incurs some added debt. It's bad news all around, as Sotheby's is in the business of SELLING items, not buying them.

 

But that's the only way to get may high-level pieces to auction, and Sotheby's just crosses their fingers that they sell.

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Aman619

Aman619

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If they now own the paintings, theyd show up as assets now on their books. So the quarterly loss would be only their cash position. The companys value would have increased by the total of the guarantees. And, if they thought the pieces were were worth more than the guarantees (arent the guarantees a minimum value of each piece to attract the consignments from going elsewhere?), Id think they still think that, and feel they bought them cheaply in the long run.

 

Unless people think art prices will finally collapse rather than ebb and flow like they have for centuries...?

 

and if they only laid out the cash to the consignors, then they would be loans on the books, and not affect the bottom line, except their cash position. But they wouldnt count toward losses, and still be assets to be paid back..

 

Lets hear from an accountant!!

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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and if they only laid out the cash to the consignors, then they would be loans on the books, and not affect the bottom line, except their cash position. But they wouldnt count toward losses, and still be assets to be paid back.

 

Yeah, the Sotheby's position sounds like a lot of BS, attributing their loss to the guarantees. They probably lost a ton all quarter and are trying to foist it off on this auction.

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batman_fan

batman_fan

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The next round of auctions will be telling whether this is a general trend or not. I believe the guarantees are much higher so the exposure even more if items don't meet reserve. I also think a lot of the fine art buyers are actually investors that hope to see a nice return on their investment over time. Some may hold back a while to see where prices go.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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Im not even certain there can be a corollary drawn between what is inarguably the highest form of art collection and our hobby. These unique pieces from some of the greatest artists of the ages (regardless of medium) command staggering prices and are loved by all people. Noone, once viewing one of these great pieces, is able to deny the mastery and awe that one senses. If anyone doubts that I would implore them to visit a museum and they will see at least one piece that gives them a feeling that transcends anything ever experience from a piece of comic art.

 

Uhhhh...if you read some of the posts that have been made in the OA Forum, you'd think Kirby, Adams, Romita and Ditko were the greatest artists of the last 150 years. doh!

 

In any case, while they are not 100% correlated or comparable, I do think you can compare the markets for comic books and comic art with fine art. Let's face it - the price of art, collectibles, stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities, etc. have all had a huge run-up the last 6 years, due largely to the ocean of liquidity and availability of cheap credit. It's no coincidence that collectibles prices have been going up at the same time EVERYTHING ELSE has been going up. Negative real interest rates prevailed for years, people had criminally easy access to cheap credit and home equity loans, bubbles in other markets and certain industries plumped up many peoples' wealth and income, etc. - these factors and more all conspired to inflate prices of everything from comic books to condos (until the past year) to stocks to metals to fine artwork.

 

Clearly, some trends have now reversed. The credit bubble is now a credit crunch. The housing bubble is now a housing recession. The 5-year bull market in stocks has been showing cracks in the firmament (if the bull isn't dead already, I think it will be before our next president takes office, IMHO). The psychology of the fine art market has gone from greed to fear almost overnight. There is still a lot of money out there and some markets remain unscathed or even healthy, but mass psychology is beginning to turn and air is steadily leaking out from the greater credit/liquidity bubble that has fueled all the bull markets in the past 6 years.

 

Just as a rising tide has lifted all boats, we'll see who has been swimming naked (figuratively speaking) when the tide goes out. :ohm

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