Silver Age Comics and Cream Pages

[spookley]

If there was a silver age comic on your want list at the grade you want with no other defects except cream or cream/off-white pages----

1. would you not touch it with a 10 foot pole

2. be willing to pay a percentage lower than GPA average

3. have no problems with it

Your thoughts?

Sorry I don't know how to do a poll feature

 

[arexcrooke]

I would consider it, especially at a discount to GPA.

C/OW doesnt bother me a lot. It really doesnt. I would prefer to hae ow/w or white but I have had and most likely will have c/ow books again.

[steelcity]

I had a SA DC CGC old label cream paged book and sold it because of that. The buyer called me after he cracked it open and I went round to look. The pages looked off-white or certainly the palest cream. On the strength of that, I bought two more old label cream SA DC paged books!

[catrick339]

Wouldn't bother me a bit. After factoring in all the dogears, spine rolls and small tears on most of my collection, cream pages would actually be a step UP.

 

Old schooler here, I'd much rather have a dozen or so classic GA and SA comics to read than one high grade slabbed book upon which only the covers can be viewed.

 

Don't get me wrong, I never turn my nose up at a high grade book if it comes into my grasp, but I won't pay a premium for one when the same dough will buy me more stories. In fact, if you check the CGC census, that 9.6 Rifleman 10 (Giant Log Issue) belongs to me! Sent that one in along with three other books at the spring Pittsburgh show.

 

That was the prettiest book out of a collection I bought in the spring, dozens of high grade Four Colors, a gorgeous run of Looney Tunes, some scattered funny stuff including an Abbot and Costello 1 in nice grade, and VF/NM runs of Tomb of Dracula and Godzilla. TOD went immediately to a dealer at generous discount to help defray the cost of the collection, the Godzillas are still sitting in the basement Crypt Of Comics along with most of the Four Colors and all the high grade Looney Tunes. Eventually they'll come back out, after I finish reading them...

[Inaflash]

I would probably pass it up with C/OW pages and certainly with Cream pages. It is one of those pet peeves of mine. I like fresh off-white to white pages and have passed on many books because of page quality.

[MutantKeys]

OW is the lowest I will go.

[CAP Freak]

I wouldn't mind as I don't collect HG

[rodan57]

It's undoubtably fine for raw readers or copies that don't need to be resold at any great future profit.

 

But I wouldn't buy a CGC book with it on the label as it reduced the books liquidity and potential value.

 

I believe that paper quality (along with QP) will be a more important factor in the future. White paper is just a lot less farther down the line towards brown and brittle.

 

My 12¢

Dennis

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

Though I agree that the PQ ranking has a direct correllation to desirability (and consequently value/price), I personally will take C-OW, at the right price, for 3 reasons:

 

1) They're cheaper & receive less competition when bidding.

 

2) Time-line/preservation: Discussions with some of the archival pros here say that PQ degeneration is slow under ideal conditions (which I adhere to) and could take "decades" to make a difference.

 

3) Especially if the slabs I buy are old labels, I'll re-sub & more times than not get a bump to OW or better!

 

I guess a good follow-up query would be,

"Which would you prefer- a 9.4 C-OW or a 9.2 OW-W? How far does the PQ gap have to be to make a difference?"

 

Rick

[steelcity]

It seems that the word "cream" on a CGC label is, to some, as negative as finding the label is purple! Rather than generalize it is perhaps more sensible to judge each book individually. For the older books there will probably be buyers not put off by a lessening of page quality if the pages are not brittle. I just did a search on Heritage for sales containing the word "cream" and was presented with the first 1000 results so there clearly is some market there.

 

[comic_lot]

I guess a good follow-up query would be,

"Which would you prefer- a 9.4 C-OW or a 9.2 OW-W? How far does the PQ gap have to be to make a difference?"

 

Rick

 

I would definitely take the 9.2 with OW-W over the 9.4 C-OW, especially for a Silver Age book. I try and avoid cream pages if at all possible.

[Aces]

If there was a silver age comic on your want list at the grade you want with no other defects except cream or cream/off-white pages----

1. would you not touch it with a 10 foot pole

2. be willing to pay a percentage lower than GPA average

3. have no problems with it

Your thoughts?

Sorry I don't know how to do a poll feature

 

Does the C/OW leak through to the cover?

If it doesn't then it's barely C/OW and if it's an old label it may even get a boost to OW on a re-sub.

Tanning and full cream would be a no-no unless I was getting a crazy deal.

 

[Mac Man]

If there was a silver age comic on your want list at the grade you want with no other defects except cream or cream/off-white pages----

1. would you not touch it with a 10 foot pole

2. be willing to pay a percentage lower than GPA average

3. have no problems with it

Your thoughts?

Sorry I don't know how to do a poll feature

 

No problem with it other than the fact if the color of the pages was the only defect, I probably couldn't afford it. Low grade is all I collect from SA (unless someone's tossing mid grade out dirt cheap).

[tth2]

It really depends on the rarity of the book in NM and whether it's old label or new label. I really don't like a book that's "cream" only, even old label. The only "cream" book I've owned has been the 9.4 JLA #2, which I sold because it was one of the two most overgraded CGC books I've had the misfortune to own. PQ wasn't the decisive factor, but it certainly made my decision to sell easier.

 

I'll take "C-OW" if it's a book that's really tough in NM and I'm not confident of my ability to find another equally nice copy, particularly if it's old label. Quite a few of my early Turoks have C-OW pages, for instance.

[Sal]

i think the whole PQ thing is overblown, personally, as it concerns the dreaded "Cream to Off-White" pages grade. if CGC hadn't put PQ on the labels to begin with, 90% of people would not care one iota. it's like staple quality; if CGC had a line that read "dull staples," or "shiny staples" or whatever, people would start talking about SQ as a "factor" influencing their decision to buy or not, regardless of the overall eye appeal of the book.

 

it's the single most subjective call in comics, principally because there's never been a standard that's stuck. the OWL rating is a joke. plus, you have to factor what the original newsprint looked like when the book was new. white pages on one book doesn't necessarily mean that the pages will look identical to another book with a white pages description. some books will always have dull looking pages, but if that's the best it can get, i suppose it will get a WHITE PAGES label, and people will pay a premium for that slight shift above an equivalently nice book that happened to garner an OW/W level of PQ...

 

i really don't understand it as it pertains to "slab collectors." if you don't crack the book out ever, who really cares? if the eye appeal is excellent, and the book's going to stay in the slab in perpetuity, turning down a CROW book solely because of the CROW distinction seems kind of stupid in my opinion.

 

all that being said, please continue to turn down opportunities to buy otherwise exceptional books because CGC said the PQ was CROW. even better, hold the price of the book down while you're at it (thumbs u

[october]

i think the whole PQ thing is overblown, personally, as it concerns the dreaded "Cream to Off-White" pages grade. if CGC hadn't put PQ on the labels to begin with, 90% of people would not care one iota. it's like staple quality; if CGC had a line that read "dull staples," or "shiny staples" or whatever, people would start talking about SQ as a "factor" influencing their decision to buy or not, regardless of the overall eye appeal of the book.

 

it's the single most subjective call in comics, principally because there's never been a standard that's stuck. the OWL rating is a joke. plus, you have to factor what the original newsprint looked like when the book was new. white pages on one book doesn't necessarily mean that the pages will look identical to another book with a white pages description. some books will always have dull looking pages, but if that's the best it can get, i suppose it will get a WHITE PAGES label, and people will pay a premium for that slight shift above an equivalently nice book that happened to garner an OW/W level of PQ...

 

i really don't understand it as it pertains to "slab collectors." if you don't crack the book out ever, who really cares? if the eye appeal is excellent, and the book's going to stay in the slab in perpetuity, turning down a CROW book solely because of the CROW distinction seems kind of stupid in my opinion.

 

all that being said, please continue to turn down opportunities to buy otherwise exceptional books because CGC said the PQ was CROW. even better, hold the price of the book down while you're at it (thumbs u

 

That's probably the best post I have ever read out of you.

 

I know that's not saying much, but still:

[Aman619]

I dont seek out cream/OW books. And Id choose a White or OW/W given a choice. Who wouldnt? But, like Tim, if the book is scarce enuff in grade, you go with whats out there. Ive bought cr/OW books, and Id do it again.

[arexcrooke]

i think the whole PQ thing is overblown, personally, as it concerns the dreaded "Cream to Off-White" pages grade. if CGC hadn't put PQ on the labels to begin with, 90% of people would not care one iota. it's like staple quality; if CGC had a line that read "dull staples," or "shiny staples" or whatever, people would start talking about SQ as a "factor" influencing their decision to buy or not, regardless of the overall eye appeal of the book.

 

it's the single most subjective call in comics, principally because there's never been a standard that's stuck. the OWL rating is a joke. plus, you have to factor what the original newsprint looked like when the book was new. white pages on one book doesn't necessarily mean that the pages will look identical to another book with a white pages description. some books will always have dull looking pages, but if that's the best it can get, i suppose it will get a WHITE PAGES label, and people will pay a premium for that slight shift above an equivalently nice book that happened to garner an OW/W level of PQ...

 

i really don't understand it as it pertains to "slab collectors." if you don't crack the book out ever, who really cares? if the eye appeal is excellent, and the book's going to stay in the slab in perpetuity, turning down a CROW book solely because of the CROW distinction seems kind of stupid in my opinion.

 

all that being said, please continue to turn down opportunities to buy otherwise exceptional books because CGC said the PQ was CROW. even better, hold the price of the book down while you're at it (thumbs u

 

That's probably the best post I have ever read out of you.

 

I know that's not saying much, but still:

Now, try riding 12+ hours to and from Baltimore

At least we had Chrisco to keep us entertained

[adamstrange]

t's the single most subjective call in comics, principally because there's never been a standard that's stuck

 

Do you think it easier to combine a multitude of factors into a single numeric grade than it is easier to assign some value to page qualify?

 

If we assembled 20 experienced dealers/collectors together we could achieve consensus pretty quickly on page quality as it's fairly close to a factual determination. But getting those same 20 to define which particular defects (e.g. stains, creases, NCBs, mis-wraps, trimming) cause a book to receive a specific grade would be a more difficult proposition.

 

Robert Rotor (Pacific Comic Exchange) used 10 designations for page quality and was quite good at it from what I could tell. I think I could teach someone faster to judge page quality than I could comic grading but it helps to have examples at the extreme ends of the range. It's also necessary to perform the check in consistent light to avoid having that skew the results. To that end I use a light that emulates sunlight very closely -- and this is something I passed on to Borock in the early days of CGC as it seemed to me they could be more consistent.

 

Initially CGC had no plans to put PQ on the label but the feedback from a number of high-grade collectors encouraged them to include it. I'm personally quite happy that they have PQ on the label as I'm fairly picky about it and not just because I de-slab my purchases. White pages are a sign of comic book health and for a piece of ephemera that's quite ephemeral I prefer comics that will last as long as possible. Would I turn down Cr-Ow in all circumstances? No, because CGC still isn't all that consistent as I can tell from side by side comparison after de-slabbing.

[tth2]

i think the whole PQ thing is overblown, personally, as it concerns the dreaded "Cream to Off-White" pages grade. if CGC hadn't put PQ on the labels to begin with, 90% of people would not care one iota.

This might be one of the first posts in a while where you and I were really poles apart. I think you've got it reversed. Collectors did care about PQ and told CGC that important information was missing from the label, and CGC duly complied by listing PQ. The market has since spoken and confirmed that PQ on the label does matter to many collectors. It's definitely less important than the big grade number, but still important.

 

i really don't understand it as it pertains to "slab collectors." if you don't crack the book out ever, who really cares? if the eye appeal is excellent, and the book's going to stay in the slab in perpetuity, turning down a CROW book solely because of the CROW distinction seems kind of stupid in my opinion.

So your collecting philosophy is out of sight out of mind? Just because I can't see the pages doesn't mean PQ isn't important to me. I was into white pages well before CGC came into existence, and they mattered into me even though I rarely broke my books out of their mylars to look at the interior pages. As Adam has also pointed out, PQ can also be an indication of the health of the book, although of course CGC may not always get it right.

 

In fact, the fact that I can't see and check the PQ myself without breaking the slab means it's even more important to have CGC give its opinion of the PQ. Otherwise, how would I know I'm not buying some book with a nice condition cover but mouldering brown dust underneath?