DITKO's FIRST PUBLISHED COMICS Dated May 1953

[rjpb]

I'll leave it to more knowledgable fans as to whether the CI work is actually Ditko or not - but whatever his contribution may have been - it doesn't look enough like Ditko to interest anyone beyond the most hard-core collector of his work. I wouldn't look for a big uptick in demand for this book.

[Sal]

there's a signature of "J. Moskowitz" on the green lamp at the right hand side on the splash page. not sure if this adds anything to the discussion, just thought i would mention it

[Moondog]

there's a signature of "J. Moskowitz" on the green lamp at the right hand side on the splash page. not sure if this adds anything to the discussion, just thought i would mention it

 

Wow! I thought it said Tiffany's!

[selegue]

I'll leave it to more knowledgable fans as to whether the CI work is actually Ditko or not - but whatever his contribution may have been - it doesn't look enough like Ditko to interest anyone beyond the most hard-core collector of his work. I wouldn't look for a big uptick in demand for this book.

 

*check list*

 

I have a copy of this scarce Über-key! Looking foward to its value going through the roof. PM me your hundred-dollar offers (if I can find it before the bubble bursts).

 

I agree that the secondary characters (especially the green ladies) resemble Ditko's work, but sometimes I see figures reminiscent of Ditko in Meskin, Purcell and others. Hey, maybe Eric Stanton worked on Classics Illustrated!

 

Jack (world's worst art spotter)

 

 

 

[Robert Beerbohm]

Hey Guys,

 

There is no doubt there are at least two other creators involved with this story besides Ditko

 

This issue for me is Ditko worked in this book also - his first pro published work

 

This is back in the days when "Many Hands" could be said as art credits for many many pre code comic "book" magazines.

 

For example, Joe Maneely and John Severin in the mid to late 50s had a studio together. For this time span, i always thought i was seeing John Severin inside many stories signed by Maneely

 

Then that fabulous interview with John Severin was in The Comics Journal a few years back - and there was John S waxing nostalgic about how he and Joe M would pass pages back and forth - vindication on spotting Severin inside many a Maneely

 

C! #107 is very common - it will never rise in value compared to Daring Love or Black Magic 27 28 Fantastic Fears 5 etc - those comic magazines are much scarcer. Most of us collect for the art of it - it ain't about the money

 

And i brought this to the GOLD section cuz i am a hard-core Ditko fan - since 1963 (age 11) when i first learned who he was - this was when my brother & I decided to buy a Spiderman #1 off the news stand as a brand new book - we missed #2 on the rack, but were able to get #3 on as they came out

 

- and began collecting his work i recognized to be him. I still remember being blown away when i learned he worked for Charlton also, in addition to Marvel.

[Aman619]

what did you and yer brother have for lunch that day?

 

[rodan57]

When one is making claims like this, it is FAR more important to try and DISPROVE the claim by naming all the differences in the work in question and the artist's style that was current at the time. We need to see side-by-side examples of where they might be differences that would disprove the theory as much as we need (literally) side-by-side examples of what are the similarities. We also need to account for what other artists at the time may have had similarities in style to the work at play, especially since a great deal of the hypothesis stated here relies on examples like "On the page 7 i post, the ladies in green up front surely look like Ditko to me" which, if you broke them down feature-by-physical feature and placed them side-by-side the Ditko faces even in the examples you provide in Black Magic, there'd be enough differences to thwart the theory in question.

 

You also then say, “I would say Ditko was at least doing layouts on some of the pages of this Classics story,” which now changes the emphasis from people’s feature to how the page is being laid out. What are the specific examples of layouts in the CI book that match Ditko’s? And how many layouts in the CI book DON’T match Ditko’s? There are so many differences even in the Black Magic pages in how Ditko structures his mis-en-scene within each panel to make a case that he didn’t even come close to touching the layouts. Lay it out panel by panel and talk to the differences and similarities.

 

You also said, "Keep in mind Ditko was still a student at the art school Jerry Robinson and Mort Meskin were teaching at the time these art story jobs came available." Do you have specific dates for when Ditko was at the school, and when Meskin was there too? If so, what's the source? When did Ditko join the school and when did he "graduate"/leave?

 

If “we” are going to be considered the “keepers of the gate” when it comes to adding/rewrite historical data in the comic-book field, we owe it to the generations coming next to ensure we are using sound principles and practices of art identification.

Sincerely,

Blake Bell

http://www.ditko.comics.org/

 

I agree with Blake, here.

 

I think these pages were the subject of an earlier series of posts on early Ditko. I remember politely questioning the works because I couldn't see Ditko in the figures, layouts or inks. But someone replied, if I remember correctly, by saying that if one compares this work with other early Ditko, the resemblance would be clear.

 

Well, the art from late '53 is clearly Ditko and does not, to my eye, resemble the early '53 work. I really think that someone needs to find some of his art school work or early submission pieces in order to support claims that this earlier, clearly more primitive work is indeed his. His talent in late '53, seems to be quite fully and distinctly shaped.

 

Dennis

[ciorac]

what did you and yer brother have for lunch that day?

 

[Robert Beerbohm]

this is what i welcome: some say Ditko, some say not - the art debates are always interesting to take in such wide varied perspectives on the same evidence staring at all of us.

 

- and wouldn't be nice if Ditko hisself was to sit down with his earlier work and share with us that which is not possible to nail down when he simply says his "work speaks for itself"

 

well, it does not, quite frankly, unfortunately, and this is such a question i would love to put to Mr Ditko, Artist, to nail down the appearances of his career - such an index i have been involved with working on for like 40 years now. but who's counting.

 

- and there will most likely be some enigmas remaining when this 80 year old gent finally passes on to that artist alley in the cosmos - i guess that is what he wants, he does himself and all of us who have been Ditko fans for so many decades such a disservice, enjoying his work as his outlook on life altered and took on what to me is just this side of surreal.

 

Me, i have never seen a previous public e-conversation on this earliest known published work of Ditko's - if there is one out there in cyber-land on CI #107, i missed it, and would love to see that chat as well - my personal mission is research and if it can be proven to me this is not Ditko, i believe that when proof becomes apparent.

 

Me, i have looked at and been pondering this CI #107 for some years now - studied the panels ya da ya da

 

- only now going "public" discourse on it. This is not like i was idly looking thru this Classic Illustrated and saw some stray panels and jumped on this message board to say "eureka" or some such

 

i keep saying there are at LEAST two other dudes art in this here funny book

 

Ditko art work appears on some of the pages simple simon

 

OTHER areas look to be Ditko layouts, methinks - that part is a bit grayer and would involve some cutting & pasting, but right now i am writing,

 

but

 

some parts of this are definitely Ditko

 

there is no way to say other wise - at least in my humble opine

 

one can easily state Daring Love #1 (Oct 1953) is the "first" full complete solo story by Ditko - published in a professional comics magazine

 

Black Magic #27 (Nov 1953) (formerly earliest known Ditko published story, heck, i was the guy who informed Overstreet PG this needed to be listed at the time some 25 years ago, so to me, my "art creds" stack up with anyone out there in this here funny book land) pictured above in this thread (Thanks Watcher, got any more please) - let's get more early Ditko posted here - i do not feel like making up the scans of early Ditko here - others feel free to post em if you got em - i do enough other scanning as i continue to work on my 1800s comics research as well as well as run my internet comics business. It is all good.

 

one can still say Fantastic Fears #5 (Jan 1954) (formerly earliest known Ditko published story) is the first story Ditko sold and got paid on (I assume, as what constitutes a sale?) , if that is what happened

 

- i want to believe my (our) late and much missed friend Bruce Hamilton who called me on the phone in 1969 looking for early Charlton Ditko art. He had heard i had picked some up as i had gone Ditko crazy and was also frantically scoring all the Charlton comics magazines i could get my hands on combing the hay stack for Ditko covers and stories - so were my two local friends Steve Johnson and Deryl Skelton, and Ditko themes run thru every issue of our fanzine Fanzation 1-5 (1969-70) -

 

Bruce told me then on the phone in 1969 that he had been writing Charlton comic book stories and the first one he had written was drawn by Steve Ditko - and he was on the hunt trying to track down and recover a piece of his youth. When he finally found his prize, which turned out to be Fantastic Fears #5, many of us fandom rejoiced in the cosmic connection along with Bruce.

 

one can say Captain 3-D #1 (Dec 1953) is Steve's first sold work from the famed Simon & Kirby bull pen - inking - so the story has been told in the past, though BM 27 predates its published cover date by a month, but those are fine hairs to fall prey to

 

and months before any of this, Ditko had a hand along with a couple other art school students in a comic book issued by Classics Illustrated. My understanding is there is a 10 issue run right there where 107 falls into place somewhere in that run. These issues were done by the students of the art school Ditko was attending at the time.

 

- every one else, go find a copy of this very common CI issue - i only have 3 issues for sale right now, so it isn't a matter of some one (like me) trying to corner the market on this book and then make such a bombshell, as it were

 

Blake, i will go to my grave thinking and saying this is Ditko's earliest published work. But it is just lines on paper, and i am not upset or anything like that, and i trust you are not either.

 

I simply have been discussing various aspects of comics history here for a few years now and thought i would add this chest nut to the mix of "Many Hands" figuring this out. If this can be debunked, then more power to who does accomplish that

 

i have been looking at comic books for 50 years now - a serious collector for 44 years, a dealer across the country in this fantastic art form for 42, have bought and sold virtually every Ditko appearance possible - which also means i have looked at every Ditko story published including enjoying his 1970s and early 80s work in all those obscure Charltons. We communicated with Ditko back in 1969 for our fanzine. He had a letter in #3, which i sent you a scan of via Randy Scott at MSU

 

Heck, i might as well post it here also:

 

 

Fredric Wertham had a subscription to my fanzine FANZATION - he actually called me up on the phone and ordered a subscription when #2 came out, making sure i was going to be publishing more issues - Wertham referenced this zine 9 times in his book that i found.

 

and this Ditko letter is quoted in his last book THE WORLD OF FANZINES (1974) under the concept of comic book fans having a lot of inner creativity. Unfortunately, he does not credit Steve with having written it, he merely quotes much of this letter though as Steve Ditko being a comics fan.

 

which he was

 

the stories Ditko's little brother Pat told of Ditko trudging across town to score each week's Spirit section are priceless. His Batman halloween costume in 1940 - the rest of the stories which i am sure will be in your book,

 

but all the above aside, please, let an older guy write about his memories a bit, indulge me as it were, it being the end of the year and i just became a first time grand father Oct 25 to a beautiful baby girl Rochelle, my youngest daughter, named Giana. I now see more years behind me than in front. And i still think art ID discussions to be great fun

 

Blake, i think your book might end up having a hole in it before it is published. Do you have any of his art school art for your book?

 

The Black Magic story would have had the editorial hand of heavier inker Jack Kirby and that stable of artists S&K kept funded with steady work. Even if not overt, but no way to avoid at least strong sub-conscious influences.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robert Beerbohm]

what did you and yer brother have for lunch that day?

 

 

 

[TheWatcher]

I'll scan Captain 3-D tomorrow, Bob (thumbs u

[Robert Beerbohm]

Thanks, Watcher - only if you are having fun sharing - that is what all these comics investigatory threads are all about - solving the puzzle, it truly takes a village

 

i say, lay em all out for every one to examine

 

every known early Ditko book - some of my early scans live on zip discs, big boner on my part - i find i am seeking new scans to implant in my 250 gig exterior hard drive

 

- this is the perfect forum for such detective work cuz we get the best of two worlds going here, words right with the pictures - the fanzines of old are e-zines of today

 

There is not enough Ditko in CI #107 to de-throne Daring Love #1 being first first solo story - twas not my intent. I do not have one of those right now - can some one post that story here? would love to compare it

 

This a great forum, i have learned a lot here, thanks guys, and i hope i have been able to impart some comics lore others have found interesting as well

 

Happy Holidaze

 

 

 

[szelim]

there's a signature of "J. Moskowitz" on the green lamp at the right hand side on the splash page. not sure if this adds anything to the discussion, just thought i would mention it

That's actually an "S" for Seymour Moskowitz.

 

It would very much be a longshot, but if Moskowitz is still around, perhaps he might have some recollection of whether Ditko was involved with CI 107?

[Robert Beerbohm]

Good idea - does any one know if Seymour is still alive?

 

Here is an index of Ditko's earliest "real" comic book work (Thanks Blake) which is Ditko's output for a little over his first year. Then he gets a base case of TB and does not work for some time, coming back initially to Atlas, then a ton of Charlton soon there after

 

Me, i am looking forward to Blake's book, and we all will want to buy one (signed, of course) when it comes out - it will be a good bio-history of a master of this art form

 

1953

DARING LOVE [Gilmore]

1 Sep "Paper Romance" [6 pages] - 1st published Ditko work.

 

BLACK MAGIC [Prize] Volume 4

3 Nov "A Hole In His Head" [6 pages] - 2nd published, but third drawn.

 

CAPTAIN 3-D [Harvey]

1 Dec Ditko does partial inks with Mort Meskin and at least four other

artists. NOTE : Many copies surfaced in 1979.

 

STRANGE FANTASY [Ajax-Farrell]

9 Dec "Hair Yee-eeee" [6 pages] Only some panels by Ditko.

 

TOTALS= 12 + pages

 

1954

BLACK MAGIC [Prize] Volume 4

4 Jan "Buried Alive" [6 pages]

5 Mar "Madame Cyanide And Mr. Tricks" [5 pages]

 

BLAZING WESTERN [Timor]

1 Jan "Range War" [8 pages] {Reprinted in BLAZING SIX-GUNS #9, 1964}

 

CRIME AND JUSTICE [Charlton]

18 Apr "Killer On The Loose" [7 pages]

 

FANTASTIC FEARS [Ajax/Farrell]

5 Jan "Stretching Things" [5 pages] - 1st Ditko pencils in comics.

{Reprinted in WEIRD v2 #8, ?/68; FMZ #1, 197O; ROCKET'S

BLAST COMICOLLECTOR #143, 6/78 & MR. MONSTER #6, 6/86}

 

RACKET SQUAD IN ACTION [Charlton]

11 May Cover.

"Botticelli Of The Bangtails" [8 pages]

12 Aug Cover.

 

SPACE ADVENTURES [Charlton]

1O Spr Cover. [Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"Homecoming" [5 pages]

11 Jul Cover. {Reprinted in ROCKET'S BLAST COMICOLLECTOR #143, 6/78

& SPACE WAR #34, 3/79 & A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"You Are The Jury" [4 pages]

"Moment Of Decision" [1 page]

"Dead Reckoning" [7 pages]

12 Aug Cover. {Reprinted in ROCKET'S BLAST COMICOLLECTOR #143, 6/78

& THE COMIC BOOK IN AMERICA: AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY, 1989

& A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

 

STRANGE SUSPENSE STORIES [Charlton]

18 May Cover.

{Reprinted in HORROR COMICS: THE ILLUSTRATED HISTORY, 1991}

"What Was In Sam Dora's Box?" [7 pages] (Reprinted in GHOST

MANOR volume 2 #73, 3/84)

"Dead Right" [6 pages]

19 Jul Cover. {Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"A Nice Quiet Place" [6 pages]

2O Aug Cover - Ditko signs his name on a rock.

"The Payoff" [7 pages]

"Von Mohl Vs. The Ants" [7 pages]

22 Nov Cover. {Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

NOTE: Last pre-code issue.

 

THE THING! [Charlton]

12 Feb Cover. {Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"Cinderella" [8 pages]

13 Apr Cover. {Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"Library Of Horror" [7 pages] {Reprinted in THE BEST OF HORROR

AND SCIENCE FICTION COMICS, 1987}

"Die Laughing" [7 pages]

"Avery And The Goblins" [8 pages]

14 Jun Cover. {Reprinted in ROCKET'S BLAST COMICOLLECTOR #143, 6/78 &

in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"Rumpelstiltskin" [8 pages]

(Reprinted in TALES TOO TERRIBLE TO TELL #8, 5/93)

"The Evil Eye" [7 pages]

"Doom In The Air" [8 pages]

"Inheritance" [5 pages]

15 Jul Cover - Ditko signs his name on a rooftop billboard.

{Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"The Worm Turns" [6 pages]

"Day Of Reckoning" [6 pages]

"Come Back" [5 pages] (Reprinted in GHOST MANOR #38, 6/78)

"If Looks Could Kill" [6 pages]

"Family Mix-up" [5 pages]

(Reprinted in TALES TOO TERRIBLE TO TELL #7, Win/93)

17 Nov Cover - Ditko signs his name on a scrap of paper.

{Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

 

THIS MAGAZINE IS HAUNTED [Charlton]

16 Mar Cover. {Reprinted in ROCKET'S BLAST COMICOLLECTOR #143,

6/78 & in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

17 May Cover: {Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"3-D Disaster, Doom, Death" [7 pages]

(Reprinted in SCARY TALES #18, 2/79)

"Triple Header" [2 pages] (Reprinted in SCARY TALES #18, 2/79)

"The Night People [4 pages] (Reprinted in SCARY TALES #18, 2/79)

18 Jul Cover. {Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

"Bridegroom, Come Back" [6 pages]

19 Aug Cover. {Reprinted in A 5O'S DITKO COVER GALLERY, 1982}

21 Dec Cover.

 

TOTALS = 194 pages. 19 covers.

 

[TheWatcher]

No problem. Just not sure how the 3-D effect will show up on the scans.

[Koko]

Bob,

I see that Moskowitz also did CI #110 A Study in Scarlet. I do not have a copy, but if you, or somebody else does, it might be worth a look.

Regards

Greg Theakston

[BangZoom]

I see that Moskowitz also did CI #110 A Study in Scarlet. I do not have a copy, but if you, or somebody else does, it might be worth a look.

I have a copy.

 

What do you want to know?

[Koko]

BZ,

Opinions or scans as to if there is Ditko content.

Regards,

Greg Theakston

[Robert Beerbohm]

Hi Greg

 

This examination was already done by some on the ten issue run drawn by the art students - though it was probably half a decade ago now when i was involved.

 

I do not have a CI #110 right now, A Conan Doyle always tends to sell pretty fast for me

 

BZ, look thru your 110, anything strike you as Ditko in it?

 

 

and Greg, i have a nice scan of that Toth Standard original art page you inquired about you can stick in an upcoming Toth book, if you still desire (i know you do) i simply has spaced on it for a while

 

 

 

[metropoliscomics]

Thing #12 had been labeled as the 1st Ditko cover. Not True! Thing #8 is the 1st Ditko cover. The 4 faces in the picture frame are clearly by Ditko.

 

S