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I need help authenticating a Church(?) copy

Started by Weird Paper,

22 posts in this topic

Weird Paper

Weird Paper

Posted
Posted

In January of 1994, I bought a number of items from a phone auction conducted by Smith House toys. The collection had belonged to somebody named Tim Spanier from Tulsa, OK. Among the books I bought were (allegedly) the Church copies of Animal 2 and Buster Crabbe 1. I returned the BC 1, along with about half of what I purchased in this auction, because they were badly overgraded. The BC 1 was probably no better than a Fn+. The Animal 2 was nice, though, and, at the time, represented my first Church book (politically-incorrectly called "Mile Highs" back then.)

There were a number of (alleged) "Mile High" books in this auction, and, since Smith House was (and still is, albeit under different management) a reputable company from whom I had purchased antique toys before.

Flash forward to November, last year, when I submitted the comic to CGC while at WW Texas. I sent them a copy of the letter provided to me by the auction house, but it was not enough, apparently, to secure its pedigree. I've attached the letter as an expandable thumbnail so it would be readable.

 

th_animalauthx.jpg

 

I'm hoping that someone out there either:

 

1. Is familiar with Tim Spanier and his collection, enough to verify the contents of the letter. Or knows Randy Cox and can put me in contact with him to verify his participation in Tim Spanier's acquisition of those books.

 

2. Participated in that auction and can provide me with a copy of the catalog, or at least the page with the Animal Comics 2 (lot #666--that's ominous) I usually keep such things, but my copy is nowhere to be found, although I have the letter and my bill of sale from the auction house.

 

3. Owned or owns some of the other Church copies listed and can trace their provenance back to this auction. There are some reasonably significant second-tier keys here, so I would think they'd be around. I remember, specifically, the Thunda 1, which I did bid on, had some sort of flaw like a small back cover tear.

 

I realize that there are some factual errors concerning the Church collection in the letter, but fourteen years ago, there was less of a cohesive story concerning the origins of the collection, and who knows what got told to whom? The comic is not coded. I know the Animal Comics 5 was at Pacific Comics Exchange at some point.

 

Hopefully the scan is legible enough. If anybody wants clarification on anything it says, I would be happy to do that. I'm even willing to retype it if necessary.

 

I appreciate any info or suggestions that anyone has.

 

 

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Transplant

Transplant

Posted
Posted

Have you tried searching Heritage for any of the Mile High issues to see if they were sold there since 1994? If they were, you may have some luck with them assisting in what happened to them or their provenance.

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Sal

Sal

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Heritage online search only goes back to late 2001, unless you have access to some super-secret search area I don't know about, which is actually fairly likely

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Transplant

Posted
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Heritage online search only goes back to late 2001, unless you have access to some super-secret search area I don't know about, which is actually fairly likely
:sorry: Still can be helpful though.
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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
Have you tried searching Heritage for any of the Mile High issues to see if they were sold there since 1994? If they were, you may have some luck with them assisting in what happened to them or their provenance.

I believe Heritage didn't start auctioning comics till late 2001, hence, there is no sales data from before then :)

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Transplant

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Yeah. I thought I kind of addressed that when Sal pointed it out. Let me make clear. I wasn't saying that Heritage's data goes back to 1994. I was saying that you can use Heritage's archive to see if any of the books on the list have sold there.

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

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Yeah. I thought I kind of addressed that when Sal pointed it out. Let me make clear. I wasn't saying that Heritage's data goes back to 1994. I was saying that you can use Heritage's archive to see if any of the books on the list have sold there.

I am sure you did...I read posts old to new, and saw it , responded, before I realized you too had responded...but, no harm no foul :)

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bluechip

bluechip

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Posted

When in doubt, call Sacentaur. He can smell if it's a mile high. And I mean literally. I've seen him do this and it's impressive (albeit a trifle disturbing) to see. But there's something about the smell of mile highs and he's got a nose that knows.

 

 

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Transplant

Transplant

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I don't purport to be an expert at this but I can offer the following. Chuck published a list in CBG of books for sale. It is my understanding that it did not include every book b/c they were either sold already or not worthy of cataloging at that point. Unfortunately for our guy, if I remember correctly, westerns were part of those not worthy of cataloging at that point.

 

I've sent Chuck an email before requesting help in pedigree for my Church/Mile High copy of Wyatt Earp. He checked his list (which might just be the CBG list) and said he couldn't help. One of the things that did help was checking against the Gerber photo journal. Mine had a distinguishing scuff on the fc that made it a dead ringer.

 

Those two steps would be my next if I were in this guy's shoes. Don't discount the smell as CGC considers it one of the hallmarks they use for provenance.

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Weird Paper

Weird Paper

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I appreciate the suggestions. I'm not sure how much luck I'd have with the Heritage archives, but I'm willing to try that.

 

I thought, too, about contacting Chuck. Since it was supposedly a sale involving a number of books, including some minor keys, he might be able to validate it.

 

As far as smell goes... I've owned over 30 Church books over the years, including 20+ now (most coded) Some books have the smell more pronounced than others. The comic has cr/ow pages, but I don't know under what conditions they were stored for the 15 years Mr. Spanier supposedly had them. A lot of Church books suffered under less than ideal conditions after they left Chuck's possession (just look at many of the Fiction Houses).

 

I don't believe the comic was in the first MH catalog Chuck put out, but that in itself is not unusual.

 

I can accept it whether it is or is not truly a Church copy, but I'd like to verify it for certain one way or another. If its authenticity is put into question, then so is the authenticity of the other books on that list if they came from that auction.

 

For what it's worth, after I first received the Animal 2, and the Buster Crabbe 1, back in 1994, I took them to show to longtime dealer/collector/Sotheby's grader Joe Dungan. He questioned the BC1, but said the Animal 2 looked like the real deal to him. It doesn't appear to be the Gerber copy, but the Gerber copy is not coded.

 

I was really hoping to find someone else who participated in that auction, and/or knew Spanier, but so far no luck.

 

 

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Weird Paper

Weird Paper

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Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

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ciorac

ciorac

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Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

 

Try Ron Pussell. His nose, although much smaller than Bedrock's, is much more tuned into the smell of Church books.

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skybolt

skybolt

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Posted
Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

 

Try Ron Pussell. His nose, although much smaller than Bedrock's, is much more tuned into the smell of Church books.

 

So what do Church books smell like.....................chicken?! (shrug)

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ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted
Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

 

Try Ron Pussell. His nose, although much smaller than Bedrock's, is much more tuned into the smell of Church books.

 

So what do Church books smell like.....................chicken?! (shrug)

 

No, that is what they taste like.

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skybolt

skybolt

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Posted
Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

 

Try Ron Pussell. His nose, although much smaller than Bedrock's, is much more tuned into the smell of Church books.

 

So what do Church books smell like.....................chicken?! (shrug)

 

No, that is what they taste like.

 

:o

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Posted
Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

 

Try Ron Pussell. His nose, although much smaller than Bedrock's, is much more tuned into the smell of Church books.

 

So what do Church books smell like.....................chicken?! (shrug)

 

A bit like a newly opened box of crayons.

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The Troll King

The Troll King

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Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

 

Try Ron Pussell. His nose, although much smaller than Bedrock's, is much more tuned into the smell of Church books.

 

So what do Church books smell like.....................chicken?! (shrug)

 

A bit like a newly opened box of crayons.

 

Hmm... that's interesting. Waxy?

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Posted
Weird... bring the book up to Dallas for the DCC next weekend and let Richard (MrBedrock) take a look at it. He has first hand knowledge of the Church books as well.

 

Actually, I had it at this last one. He saw it. He sniffed it...

 

Try Ron Pussell. His nose, although much smaller than Bedrock's, is much more tuned into the smell of Church books.

 

So what do Church books smell like.....................chicken?! (shrug)

 

A bit like a newly opened box of crayons.

 

Hmm... that's interesting. Waxy?

 

No to the "waxy" question.

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