Conspiracy Theory

[supapimp]

Can someone give me a 1 or 2 sentence recap of the Usenet thread?

 

everything that daniel dupcak/comic-keys said is true!

[Mushroom]

Can someone give me a 1 or 2 sentence recap of the Usenet thread?

 

everything that daniel dupcak/comic-keys said is true!

 

[davidpg]

Fascinating article.

 

It can only get you into trouble if you are truly investing as opposed to collecting.

 

I have what I want in my collection. The fact that at this point, should I want to liquidate, I would have enough money for a downpayment on a house or a nice used Porsche is strictly a bonus.

[BachelorOfComix]

everything that daniel dupcak/comic-keys said is true!

What's that? We're all a bunch of insufficiently_thoughtful_persons? The earth is flat?

[Darthdiesel]

[supapimp]

everything that daniel dupcak/comic-keys said is true!

What's that? We're all a bunch of insufficiently_thoughtful_persons? The earth is flat?

 

DUPCAK'S RANTS

[fantastic_four]

Man, that article is fascinating...sounds like Michael Naiman! It's the very definition of a conspiracy theory...lots of "maybe"s, "if"s, and "it's possible that"s in that essay which are used as a shaky foundation to build up to his conclusions. I always love it when people point out their experience in the industry as a substitute for presenting actual evidence..."trust me, I've been watching these guys for decades, and even though I'm not offering any proof, it still sounds compellingly convincing, doesn't it?" Maybe he's right...maybe he's not...but he offers no proof of Geppi's or Parrino's actions and an entirely biased slant which offers no alternative viewpoint to his thesis. If he's building that on proof and not speculation...why not include the proof? Or his NAME, for that matter? I love his e-mail address, "noemail@nodomain.com". I guess he was afraid that Don Geppi would send out a burly comics dealer to fit him with concrete boots or something.

 

If joe didn't have an ego which prevents him from admitting it, he'd probably profess to being in love with this guy! This is what he'll be like in a decade or so if he keeps on his current track of negative speculation.

[fantastic_four]

.....you are going to regret that comment........trust me.

 

OK OK I admit it for the people who forgot which thread I posted that in...it was a pure conspiracy theory!

[Mushroom]

If joe didn't have an ego which prevents him from admitting it, he'd probably profess to being in love with this guy! This is what he'll be like in a decade or so if he keeps on his current track of negative speculation.

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

 

[drbanner]

Can someone give me a 1 or 2 sentence recap of the Usenet thread?

 

everything that daniel dupcak/comic-keys said is true!

 

Good one pimpy...and oh so true!

[dadaist]

I have to agree with FF; this is a classic case of someone having a major bone to pick with Geppi. The entire foundation of his theory is based on Geppi's Marvel 1 (pay copy), and the desire to continue to burn the feul for his tirade, we discover only in the end, is that the poor stiff owns a copy that Geppi probably laughed at and passed on. This guy even goes on to accuse Geppi of marking the book for the sake of faking provenance!

 

There is no denying; I have always been of a skeptical nature with regard to the OPG and its values -- and part of me has always reserved some recognition that the guide, and its formulations of value need derive from some form of special interests. This is not to be confused with self-interest, although from what Reality Check is saying, Geppi threw in his hat quite some time ago, and decided to bank on both his own short and long term fortunes.

[Foolkiller]

This is complete speculation and although based on his own version of logic, is not in anyway backed up by any facts. The author of this article may in fact be correct, but without any sort of proof, it just amounts to guesswork.

 

I thought the entire article was fascinating to read, but NOT so fascinating that it convinced me that what he was saying was true. I think there's a feeling among long time collectors that the OS is not an accurate price guide because the advisors themselves, usually with the biggest warehouses, often influence the prices... Thus the rise and fall of certain books within the guide is determined by a select few.

 

Unfortunately, the premise of the article goes back to an underlying theory that comic book dealers are crooks and that everyone in the OS guide is corrupt. I simply don't believe that. I'm not saying that many dealers, as in every portion of life, aren't crooks. Maybe even a larger percentage are underhanded in their dealings as compared to other forms of work... but I still can't say that the whole collectible comic market is just a sham. There's a lot of guys who've been around a long time (Gary Dolgoff, Ron Pusell, Doug Sulipa to name a few) who probably know a great deal about many deals and the number of books that exist in given grades, and I've never heard this kind of theory floated about Geppi before.

 

If someone's heard something like this about Geppi, I'd like to hear it just for my own edification. I'm sure Geppi is doing some manipulation of the guide but I'm always skeptical when you have to bring more than one person in to do something like this... inevitably, something backfires and it all comes to a head... revealing what had been going all along.

[dadaist]

I thought the entire article was fascinating to read, but so fascinating that it convinced me that what he was saying was true.

 

That's what makes it a bonafide conspiracy theory

 

But on a seroius note, I think collectors could learn quite a bit if Robert Overstreet were to go on the record to explain why he sold his collection shortly after Geppi took over the guide. And I'm not talking about a flowery testament, but a no-holds barred account. I think we might even learn something from Jerry Weists recent disposal of his collection. IMO, the act of purging ones research materials and their collections is a radical departure, and one that is not always a clear and shut case of liquidation for the sake of monetary pursuits.

[drbanner]

But on a seroius note, I think collectors could learn quite a bit if Robert Overstreet were to go on the record to explain why he sold his collection shortly after Geppi took over the guide. And I'm not talking about a flowery testament, but a no-holds barred account.

 

Bob Overstreet's not getting any younger...that's why he sold his collection. Bob Overstree'ts not getting any younger...that's why he "turned over the reigns" of the guide to someone else.

 

As much as everyone here likes to say they'll take their books to the grave with them, people's priorities change over time, especially when you're 60+ years old and facing retirement, health issues, moving into kid's homes or retirement centers, and starting to plan out what your legacy to your kids is going to be.

 

"I'm going to pass my comics on to my kids..." makes for nice, tidy logic behind never selling your books, and if your kids are into comics then that's a great legacy/inheritance to pass along, but if not...then you're only passing along the burden of dealing with "Dad's old comics". And I can tell you it would be a burden both in terms of physically having to move/store them, and all the time/effort it would require someone (especially someone not in tune with the hobby) to sell them.

 

So you can hoard them to your deathbed, or you can say "Hey, I've enjoyed these books for 30 years, now I'm going to let someone else enjoy them..." and liquidate your collection to buy a house in St. Augustine baby!!

[RandomSidekick001-migratio]

Well, I certainly don't know enough about the comics market to know if there's any actual market manipulation going on, and that UseNet article was definitly heavy on conspiracy theory conjecture. However, if a number of the "definitive" price guides and industry trade journals are indeed owned by the same person/group, and that person also has substantial investments in the commodity being traded, I wouldn't be surprised if they're skirting the edges of Federal anti-trust legislation. If we were talking about publicly traded commodities sold on a formal exchange, it sounds like the SEC would be taking a close look.

 

- SK

[drbanner]

Well, I certainly don't know enough about the comics market to know if there's any actual market manipulation going on, and that UseNet article was definitly heavy on conspiracy theory conjecture. However, if a number of the "definitive" price guides and industry trade journals are indeed owned by the same person/group, and that person also has substantial investments in the commodity being traded, I wouldn't be surprised if they're skirting the edges of Federal anti-trust legislation. If we were talking about publicly traded commodities sold on a formal exchange, it sounds like the SEC would be taking a close look.

 

- SK

 

Unfortunately, the hobby isn't big enough to have a disinterested 3rd-party behind the guide/trade journals. Take all the big dealers and collectors out of the pool of potential authors for the price guides, Wizard, etc.,. and the only person left claiming to have enough knowledge to produce them is Joe_C!

 

Fortunately, recorded, actual sales data is now available to informed buyers via ebay, GPA, the Standard Catalog, etc.,.

[nearmint]

I, for one, have every intention of liquidating my collection when I retire in about 20 years.

 

There's bound to be some corruption in any hobby, but I think this article is what my grandfather would eloquently refer to as a bunch of malarky. Further, any author who seeks to tarnish the reputation of so many people in a single article but fails to reveal his own identity is a coward.

 

Funny how the author still hangs onto his own copy of Marvel Comics #1 when he's convinced that the market will crash imminently.

 

 

[dadaist]

Bob Overstreet's not getting any younger...that's why he sold his collection. Bob Overstree'ts not getting any younger...that's why he "turned over the reigns" of the guide to someone else.

 

Guys like Bob don't get into producing a guide in the first place without having purist tendencies. I don't want to come across as being argumentative here Mike, but honestly, we don't know the complete story about the takeover. Was it hostile? Did Geppi rub Bob off the wrong way during the changeover? Did Bob think that the hobby was headed in the wrong direction? Unless I've read things wrong from the beginning, Bob Overstreet appeared to me as the type of person that had a contagious personality, and wanted his passion and love for comics to be spread across the continent. I'm guessing that if Geppi is a smart business person, and he really wanted to make the guide his baby, he would have dealt with Bob in an honourable and classy way. And this is purely conjecture on my part. But to lay down a claim that the sole reason Bob sold his comics were because of a lifestyle shift -- just doesn't cut it for me personally. And if I'm wrong, nothing against you, I'd much rather hear it from the horse's mouth.

[drbanner]

I don't want to come across as being argumentative here

 

 

No worries...the topic of why/when BO sold his collection has been discussed here before, and age/health were issues brought up. But I'm not relying on hearsay on Bob's specific situation to come to the conclusion that when you're about to retire is a good time to sell, I'm looking down the same road right now with my father-in-law's sports memorabilia collection (I actually helped him list his 1st ebay auctions a month or so ago). As such, I can understand the motivations of someone in Bob's position selling his beloved collection.

 

And retirement status aside, the reason so many killer books have been offered for sale the last 2-3 years is that the market has been projected to stratospheric levels by the internet/CGC/ebay/etc.,. These shweet books were securely locked away in collections until these huge price spikes, at which times the owners obviously thought now would be a good time to sell.

 

I guess you're just going to have to call Bob or Geppi to satisfy your curiosity, or we can all continue to speculate here without fact, which is fun in it's own right...or is it?

[fantastic_four]

Guys like Bob don't get into producing a guide in the first place without having purist tendencies. I don't want to come across as being argumentative here Mike, but honestly, we don't know the complete story about the takeover. Was it hostile? Did Geppi rub Bob off the wrong way during the changeover? Did Bob think that the hobby was headed in the wrong direction? Unless I've read things wrong from the beginning, Bob Overstreet appeared to me as the type of person that had a contagious personality, and wanted his passion and love for comics to be spread across the continent. I'm guessing that if Geppi is a smart business person, and he really wanted to make the guide his baby, he would have dealt with Bob in an honourable and classy way. And this is purely conjecture on my part. But to lay down a claim that the sole reason Bob sold his comics were because of a lifestyle shift -- just doesn't cut it for me personally. And if I'm wrong, nothing against you, I'd much rather hear it from the horse's mouth.

 

You're wrong. Bob Overstreet used to make the guide on his own, but now he's a Gemstone employee working for Geppi on the guide. I assumed the same thing Banner did, that he either got tired of collecting, dealing, producing the guide on his own, or all of the above.