Zip Comics #1 - Same book, two grades, 2nd time sold for 2x more

[Shield]

Of course, I always check Heritage's auction site out. I ran across the following:

 

Zip Comics #1, CGC Fine Plus, sold for $1150

 

and then this:

 

Zip Comics #1, CGC VF-, sold for $1955

 

It's clearly the same book. I'll point out some differences that make me

 

First Book_________________________Second Book

6.5_______________________________7.5

Cream to off-white pages _____________ Off-white pages

Wrinking/Waviness at top right________Flat and smooth

Dark Scan________________________ Bright scan

Not pressed_______________________Obviously Pressed...

 

 

I'm not saying anything about CGC; they just grade what is in front of them. However, what is going on here?

 

[Shield]

Pretty big difference in the spines!

 

[Shield]

..maybe this should be in the Gold thread? Pov! Where are you buddy! Help me decide which forum this belongs in! So confused...

[Darthdiesel]

if it's the same book; how did the miswrap on the first one get fixed so nice without stting off PLOD alarms?? cleaning was obviously the Wonder bread treatment...

[Illiterati-migration]

if it's the same book; how did the miswrap on the first one get fixed so nice without stting off PLOD alarms?? cleaning was obviously the Wonder bread treatment...

 

I hate to side with Darth....... so I won't.

[Shield]

I hate to side with Darth....... so I won't.

 

 

TROLL!

 

J/K...Seriously MK, what's your thoughts on this?

[Shield]

if it's the same book; how did the miswrap on the first one get fixed so nice without stting off PLOD alarms?? cleaning was obviously the Wonder bread treatment...

 

 

IF? IF? Methinks you need to check out the back covers on those books! Pretty obvious catch, which is why I found it...

[Darthdiesel]

my reply is based on on your spine presentation. just offering my opinion as a cgc apologist...bah.. I care not for these undergrounds .... no one futzes with my Moderns and they still sell for the same prices as your zaps... see recent RRP slabbed sales

 

you want a worthy opinion... ask dadaist/comicwiz/Joseph Fiore - he can probably tell you the printing from your spine sliver scan...don't bait me, Yankee hater

[Shield]

my reply is based on on your spine presentation. just offering my opinion as a cgc apologist...bah.. I care not for these undergrounds .... no one futzes with my Moderns and they still sell for the same prices as your zaps... see recent RRP slabbed sales

 

you want a worthy opinion... ask dadaist/comicwiz/Joseph Fiore - he can probably tell you the printing from your spine sliver scan...don't bait me, Yankee hater

 

 

Why base your reply on just the 2nd post in this thread? I gave you 2 links to Heritage! Plus its "Zip" not "Zap" BUB! I didn't know CGC had anything to apologize for here, unless you think they did something wrong.

 

So, is "dadaist" just "dad" reincarnated? It's SOOO easy to bait a Yankee fan! Ask my co-worker in NJ how she liked paying off bets 3 years in a row with me!

[Darthdiesel]

Why base your reply on just the 2nd post in this thread? I gave you 2 links to Heritage! Plus its "Zip" not "Zap" BUB! I didn't know CGC had anything to apologize for here, unless you think they did something wrong.

 

shows you gow much attention I pay to golden age posts i thought your post implied that once again cgc missed obvious resto...anf now owes the original owner the difference in sale prices

 

 

[BestOf7-migration]

You can read a bit on Dadaism here.

[fantastic_four]

if it's the same book; how did the miswrap on the first one get fixed so nice without stting off PLOD alarms??

 

How would the fixed miswrap set off PLOD alarms? You seem to be assuming they compare each copy of an issue against every other copy previously submitted. In pointing out what CGC missed on this book, you've got to isolate your observations to the VF- copy and what they could have spotted that they didn't.

[Illiterati-migration]

if it's the same book; how did the miswrap on the first one get fixed so nice without stting off PLOD alarms??

 

How would the fixed miswrap set off PLOD alarms? You seem to be assuming they compare each copy of an issue against every other copy previously submitted. In pointing out what CGC missed on this book, you've got to isolate your observations to the VF- copy and what they could have spotted that they didn't.

 

So, they CAN'T spot resto like rewrapping a cover like that??

[Illiterati-migration]

I hate to side with Darth....... so I won't.

 

 

TROLL!

 

J/K...Seriously MK, what's your thoughts on this?

 

I will try my darnedest not to be a "hater" here and just say:

 

I guess this pretty much throws that idea of using CGC as a reliable "resto check" service out the window.

 

Wait, was that hatin' too hard? Seriously, that's nutty. Stupid nutty. Good catch!

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Where is the restoration? The book was pressed, and wiped down w/ bread. Anyone who has opened slabs will tell you that CGC's designation on pg quality is shaky at best. I have opened cream/off-white books and compared to off white books and most times they were virtually identical, and in a few instances better. If any of us had the resources Heritage has, we would do this type of re sub all day long.

 

OR....... CGC is in cohoots w/ Heritage. Pick your favorite.

[drbanner]

Where is the restoration? The book was pressed, and wiped down w/ bread. Anyone who has opened slabs will tell you that CGC's designation on pg quality is shaky at best. I have opened cream/off-white books and compared to off white books and most times they were virtually identical, and in a few instances better. If any of us had the resources Heritage has, we would do this type of re sub all day long.

 

OR....... CGC is in cohoots w/ Heritage. Pick your favorite.

 

Exactly...the voice of reason. Every book should be, and is, graded on it's own merit, not "compared" to previous examples of that issue. Steve has discussed this issue before, and noted that pressing is not always evident. I don't see how one could call the 7.5 restored by looking at it in it's current state!?!?!

 

(Ok, now that I've agreed with you, how many NM Dazzler 1/2's you need!?!? )

[Illiterati-migration]

Where is the restoration? The book was pressed, and wiped down w/ bread. Anyone who has opened slabs will tell you that CGC's designation on pg quality is shaky at best. I have opened cream/off-white books and compared to off white books and most times they were virtually identical, and in a few instances better. If any of us had the resources Heritage has, we would do this type of re sub all day long.

 

OR....... CGC is in cohoots w/ Heritage. Pick your favorite.

 

So you don't think anything "extra" had to be done to the book to get the cover and pages squared away like that again? Did you look at the scans of the front AND the back on these books? I would say that something dramatic was done to the book to get those pages to line up like that again.

 

And for the record, I do think that cleaning and pressing is restoration.

 

[Illiterati-migration]

Where is the restoration? The book was pressed, and wiped down w/ bread. Anyone who has opened slabs will tell you that CGC's designation on pg quality is shaky at best. I have opened cream/off-white books and compared to off white books and most times they were virtually identical, and in a few instances better. If any of us had the resources Heritage has, we would do this type of re sub all day long.

 

OR....... CGC is in cohoots w/ Heritage. Pick your favorite.

 

Exactly...the voice of reason. Every book should be, and is, graded on it's own merit, not "compared" to previous examples of that issue. Steve has discussed this issue before, and noted that pressing is not always evident. I don't see how one could call the 7.5 restored by looking at it in it's current state!?!?!

 

(Ok, now that I've agreed with you, how many NM Dazzler 1/2's you need!?!? )

 

Who is saying it should be "compared"? So far, the only people talking about "comparing" with the "first" book are the CGC apologists.

I agree that one couldn't tell that the book was restored by looking at it in it's current state... and that's why I said that the "CGC as resto check" idea is out the window.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

As far as I know, that type of spine roll can be pressed out without having the book taken apart, but I'm no expert.....

 

If I put a comic under 10 encyclopedias and wiped it w/ bread, you would call that restoration?!? How are you changing the original state of the book? You're not adding anything or taking anything away,or pulling the book apart.

 

And for the record there are more things I dislike about CGC than I like!

[Illiterati-migration]

As far as I know, that type of spine roll can be pressed out without having the book taken apart, but I'm no expert.....

 

If I put a comic under 10 encyclopedias and wiped it w/ bread, you would call that restoration?!? How are you changing the original state of the book? You're not adding anything or taking anything away,or pulling the book apart.

 

As with many other collecting issues, I am far more literal and hardlined in my interpretation of "the rules." I think if you're going to call it "restoration" then ANY process that is going to change the appearance of the book in terms of cleaning, "restructuring", etc, is "restoration." Similarly, would not anything that is detrimental to a book's appearance be called _____ (whatever you would want to call it)?

 

Now, with that book, I think someone did a LOT more than just put it under ten encyclopedias. And, to open yet another can of worms, if the page quality is so flexible, why is it listed in such specific terms to begin with?