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Batman #227 photo of the day

Started by dekeuk,

43 posts in this topic

Zonker

Zonker

Posted
Posted
the nerdiest discussion I've ever seen on the CGC forums.

 

Did somebody page me? :foryou:

 

227 is top of mid-tier Bronze Age Batman, or maybe bottom of the top tier. It is a Denny O'Neil story after all, so miles ahead of most of the Frank Robbins / Bob Brown collaborations of the day (mainly in Detective Comics). Not up there with Denny's Ras al Ghul stories, or any of Archie Goodwin's few stories, but it has a nice moody atmosphere.

 

And the Irv Novick / Giordano team was solid. Not at Neal Adams' level (who was?), but dependable, and serviced well the mood O'Neil was shooting for. Apart from Adams, Wrightson did 1 Batman story in the early 1970s, Simonson a couple, Chaykin did one, Toth had a single Batman outing, but Novick/Giordano delivered time and time again. In my opinion in the early 1970s only Aparo surpassed them for consistently good, meeting-the-monthly-deadline Batman artwork.

 

My main gripe with the story in 227 is I don't believe O'Neil actually earned the pathos he was aiming for in the last scene. I've hesitated to post this until now, since I don't want to single-handedly tank the book's value ;) but...

 

The caption has gotta be: You'll believe a Batman can cry. :screwy:

60480-lastpg.jpg.98590f4eb0c82733b0a8fd1ccddc5f51.jpg

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DiceX

DiceX

Posted
Posted
the nerdiest discussion I've ever seen on the CGC forums.

 

Did somebody page me? :foryou:

 

227 is top of mid-tier Bronze Age Batman, or maybe bottom of the top tier. It is a Denny O'Neil story after all, so miles ahead of most of the Frank Robbins / Bob Brown collaborations of the day (mainly in Detective Comics). Not up there with Denny's Ras al Ghul stories, or any of Archie Goodwin's few stories, but it has a nice moody atmosphere.

 

And the Irv Novick / Giordano team was solid. Not at Neal Adams' level (who was?), but dependable, and serviced well the mood O'Neil was shooting for. Apart from Adams, Wrightson did 1 Batman story in the early 1970s, Simonson a couple, Chaykin did one, Toth had a single Batman outing, but Novick/Giordano delivered time and time again. In my opinion in the early 1970s only Aparo surpassed them for consistently good, meeting-the-monthly-deadline Batman artwork.

 

My main gripe with the story in 227 is I don't believe O'Neil actually earned the pathos he was aiming for in the last scene. I've hesitated to post this until now, since I don't want to single-handedly tank the book's value ;) but...

 

The caption has gotta be: You'll believe a Batman can cry. :screwy:

 

Yup. That shoved it off the scale. Thanks, Zonk! (worship)

 

 

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
Well...I also agree that the book is overrated...

 

But these CGC days it's all about the cover...

 

Jim

 

 

Now c'mon Jim thats not entirely true. I was a cover freak long before CGC was around as I imagine many others were too. Not that I don't appreciate a good read as much as the next fella(or lady) but may times it IS all about the cover. Slabbed or Raw. I love Hot Wheel Covers by Adams but I cant say I really give a hoot about the stories.

 

In the case of 227. Well it's an Adams/Classic Cover tribute and that is enough for me to pay a premium right there. It is a shame he was doing so many covers at the time and was not allowed/able to do more interiors.

 

 

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HouseofComics.Com

HouseofComics.Com

Posted
Posted
My main gripe with the story in 227 is I don't believe O'Neil actually earned the pathos he was aiming for in the last scene. I've hesitated to post this until now, since I don't want to single-handedly tank the book's value ;) but...

 

Quick, post dwarves with flintlock pistols to make up for it!

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HouseofComics.Com

HouseofComics.Com

Posted
Posted

Btw, the story in 227 was picked for Batman from the 30s to the 70s. Not sure how much thought went into picking the "current" stories at the time, but it's another point in its favor.

 

Didn't Novick do the Christmas story in Batman 239? I thought that was a nice art job. The Joker story in 261 is decent too.

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Juswuh

Juswuh

Posted
Posted
Polyester Gothic lol

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a great fan of Dark Shadows.

 

I'm also not a fan of "homages" - I don't think ANY homage cover counts as a classic in its own right.

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
Well...I also agree that the book is overrated...

 

But these CGC days it's all about the cover...

 

Jim

Now c'mon Jim thats not entirely true. I was a cover freak long before CGC was around as I imagine many others were too. Not that I don't appreciate a good read as much as the next fella(or lady) but may times it IS all about the cover. Slabbed or Raw. I love Hot Wheel Covers by Adams but I cant say I really give a hoot about the stories.

 

In the case of 227. Well it's an Adams/Classic Cover tribute and that is enough for me to pay a premium right there. It is a shame he was doing so many covers at the time and was not allowed/able to do more interiors.

 

This book was sought out for it's cover well before CGC was a sparkle in Borock's eye. I really don't think CGC has had any appreciable affect on increasing the desirability of classic cover books, especially compared to the Gerbers and the effect the internet (ebay, Heritage, etc.,.) has had in exposing these covers to collectors all over the world.

 

Condition, yes, cover, no.

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
Well...I also agree that the book is overrated...

 

But these CGC days it's all about the cover...

 

Jim

Now c'mon Jim thats not entirely true. I was a cover freak long before CGC was around as I imagine many others were too. Not that I don't appreciate a good read as much as the next fella(or lady) but may times it IS all about the cover. Slabbed or Raw. I love Hot Wheel Covers by Adams but I cant say I really give a hoot about the stories.

 

In the case of 227. Well it's an Adams/Classic Cover tribute and that is enough for me to pay a premium right there. It is a shame he was doing so many covers at the time and was not allowed/able to do more interiors.

 

This book was sought out for it's cover well before CGC was a sparkle in Borock's eye. I really don't think CGC has had any appreciable affect on increasing the desirability of classic cover books, especially compared to the Gerbers and the effect the internet (ebay, Heritage, etc.,.) has had in exposing these covers to collectors all over the world.

 

Condition, yes, cover, no.

 

We're going to have to disagree on this one Mike. CGC slabs place the focus entirely on the covers since it's the only aspect of the comic's content a collector can gauge an issue by...

 

Jim

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MR.COMICBOOK

MR.COMICBOOK

Posted
Posted
the nerdiest discussion I've ever seen on the CGC forums.

 

Did somebody page me? :foryou:

 

227 is top of mid-tier Bronze Age Batman, or maybe bottom of the top tier. It is a Denny O'Neil story after all, so miles ahead of most of the Frank Robbins / Bob Brown collaborations of the day (mainly in Detective Comics). Not up there with Denny's Ras al Ghul stories, or any of Archie Goodwin's few stories, but it has a nice moody atmosphere.

 

And the Irv Novick / Giordano team was solid. Not at Neal Adams' level (who was?), but dependable, and serviced well the mood O'Neil was shooting for. Apart from Adams, Wrightson did 1 Batman story in the early 1970s, Simonson a couple, Chaykin did one, Toth had a single Batman outing, but Novick/Giordano delivered time and time again. In my opinion in the early 1970s only Aparo surpassed them for consistently good, meeting-the-monthly-deadline Batman artwork.

 

My main gripe with the story in 227 is I don't believe O'Neil actually earned the pathos he was aiming for in the last scene. I've hesitated to post this until now, since I don't want to single-handedly tank the book's value ;) but...

 

The caption has gotta be: You'll believe a Batman can cry. :screwy:

Don`t let the DC lawyers see that if they don`t allow the Adam West Batman on dvd for being too camp, what would they do with this?
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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
Well...I also agree that the book is overrated...

 

But these CGC days it's all about the cover...

 

Jim

Now c'mon Jim thats not entirely true. I was a cover freak long before CGC was around as I imagine many others were too. Not that I don't appreciate a good read as much as the next fella(or lady) but may times it IS all about the cover. Slabbed or Raw. I love Hot Wheel Covers by Adams but I cant say I really give a hoot about the stories.

 

In the case of 227. Well it's an Adams/Classic Cover tribute and that is enough for me to pay a premium right there. It is a shame he was doing so many covers at the time and was not allowed/able to do more interiors.

This book was sought out for it's cover well before CGC was a sparkle in Borock's eye. I really don't think CGC has had any appreciable affect on increasing the desirability of classic cover books, especially compared to the Gerbers and the effect the internet (ebay, Heritage, etc.,.) has had in exposing these covers to collectors all over the world.

 

Condition, yes, cover, no.

We're going to have to disagree on this one Mike. CGC slabs place the focus entirely on the covers since it's the only aspect of the comic's content a collector can gauge an issue by...

 

Jim

 

Actually, CGC slabs place the focus on the grade on the label, which is the characteristic of the comic book that has driven prices through the roof over the last 8 years, not on the cover content.

 

LB Cole and Alex Schomburg did very little interior work, yet their covers have long been sought out, and recreations were featured on OSPG's and in the Comic Book Marketplace for years before CGC. Having dove into collecting high-grade Adams books in the mid-90's, I can assure you that his better covers (like Bats 227) were also sought out above the surrounding issues. Here's a small sample of the Oakland inventory Vinnie emailed me shortly after discovering the collection...what's missing?

 

Tomahawk 112 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 113 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 114 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 115 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 117 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 118 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 119 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 120 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 121 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 122 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 123 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 124 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 125 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 126 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 129 NM $15.00

 

Batman 227 was already gone, Superman 233 was gone, etc.,.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
I'm also not a fan of "homages" - I don't think ANY homage cover counts as a classic in its own right.

 

Unless the homage is better than the original, which is the case here.

Buenos dias, senor. :hi:

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
Here's a small sample of the Oakland inventory Vinnie emailed me shortly after discovering the collection...what's missing?

 

Tomahawk 112 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 113 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 114 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 115 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 117 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 118 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 119 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 120 NM $20.00

Tomahawk 121 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 122 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 123 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 124 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 125 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 126 NM $15.00

Tomahawk 129 NM $15.00

 

Batman 227 was already gone, Superman 233 was gone, etc.,.

 

Well sure there are since there are many more collectors out there that collect those titles than Tomahawk...

 

Jim

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
Well sure there are since there are many more collectors out there that collect those titles than Tomahawk...

 

Jim

You missed the point Jim! doh!

 

Do you see the best Tomahawk cover (116) on that list? No, it was gone... :(

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
Well sure there are since there are many more collectors out there that collect those titles than Tomahawk...

 

Jim

You missed the point Jim! doh!

 

Do you see the best Tomahawk cover (116) on that list? No, it was gone... :(

 

Of course...there were Tomahawk collectors out there that know the issue is tough in HG.

 

Listen, I'm not saying covers don't mean anything...they are a selling point. But the multiples #227 command? Just for a cover? That's nuts...

 

Jim

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
Well sure there are since there are many more collectors out there that collect those titles than Tomahawk...

 

Jim

You missed the point Jim! doh!

 

Do you see the best Tomahawk cover (116) on that list? No, it was gone... :(

 

Of course...there were Tomahawk collectors out there that know the issue is tough in HG.

 

Listen, I'm not saying covers don't mean anything...they are a selling point. But the multiples #227 command? Just for a cover? That's nuts...

 

Jim

 

Nuts to you perhaps! Not to someone else. :kidaround:

 

I hear ya though, it is crazy sometimes.

 

And btw, before I turned sigs off Ellen kept asking my why that lady was licking that computer.

 

:blush:

 

 

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