Amazing Fantasy #15 Club

[G.A.tor]

one thing to consider is that cgc grades restored books diff then unrestored... they have to, as no matter how good restored looks, there can always be visible flaws for them to deduct...

 

personally, I would't slab a SA restored key... 1) they look better raw, most of the time 2) they sell better raw, most of the time 3)because they are restored, you can flip through them, enjoy them, without "fear" of damaging...

 

I say crack that puppy back out!

[Shark]

one thing to consider is that cgc grades restored books diff then unrestored... they have too, as no matter how good restored looks, there can always be visible flaws for them to deduct...

 

personally, I would't slab a SA restored key... 1) they look better raw, most of the time 2) they sell better raw, most of the time 3)because they are restored, you can flip through them, enjoy them, without "fear" of damaging...

 

I say crack that puppy back out!

 

I might consider cracking it out of the slab. I might even consider further restoration on it if it doesn't take 6 months to get it back like a certain book I had recently restored.

[Speedy-D]

A 5.5 EP PLOD AF 15 is still worth thousands right? I don't think I'd do a lot of flipping through that one.

[Shark]

A 5.5 EP PLOD AF 15 is still worth thousands right? I don't think I'd do a lot of flipping through that one.

 

One sold in March for $3,500....which is a lot less than I paid for mine.

[Speedy-D]

Sorry to hear that man.

[G.A.tor]

A 5.5 EP PLOD AF 15 is still worth thousands right? I don't think I'd do a lot of flipping through that one.

won't hurt it one bit (thumbs u

[Filter81]

I submitted the AF #15 I bought from Adam (Filter81) at the CGC booth at C2E2 and got the grade back a couple of days ago. He had estimated an MP (moderate professional) 7.0 on the book and I pretty much agreed that I thought it was in the 6.5-7.5 range. The front cover is SWEET but the back cover has some mainly discoloration issues that I knew would bring the grade down. Well, the damn thing came back an EP (extensive professional) 5.5 and I am, needless to say, one irritated individual right now. How the hell that book got graded a 5.5 is beyond me. I'll call for graders' notes tomorrow but it's gonna take me awhile to get over this if I ever do.

 

Oh, and just to clarify things, I'm pissed at CGC and not Adam. He supplied the book as stated although we were both high on the grading estimate. I know...win some, lose some but this one is a BIG loser.

 

That's why...it's always best to buy an AF15 graded by CGC. One out of three out there, has some type of resto.

 

Since Mike gave me the "ok" to chime in, I just wanted to clarify that even though the situation w/ the grade stinks, the restoration itself was correctly disclosed. (The book was sold as having "Extensive Professional Restoration including color touch, pieces added,tear seals & spine reinforced.") We both agreed on the grade only to find out the bad news later that CGC has a different opinion.

 

The CGC grade still has me surprised. (Mike, please remember to send me a copy of the grader notes as soon as you get them and to keep in touch via PM. )

 

I'll be the first to admit that I know much more about grading today than I did when the book was sold in '08, and even a FN+ I could see. FN- was very surprising to me. I owned the book for a long time before selling, and remember the book very well so I'd be surprised if there were some large interior defect / water damage that was missed, but anything is possible. An earlier poster is exactly right that it is sometimes very difficult to accurately predict a CGC grade on an extensively restored book. Sometimes CGC will be very lenient on defects that have been "fixed" and treat them like they aren't there. Other times they can be very harsh if they feel a defect wasn't fixed well enough. (Just my experience anyway)

 

A 5.5 on that book is a headscratcher though!

 

 

[Shark]

I submitted the AF #15 I bought from Adam (Filter81) at the CGC booth at C2E2 and got the grade back a couple of days ago. He had estimated an MP (moderate professional) 7.0 on the book and I pretty much agreed that I thought it was in the 6.5-7.5 range. The front cover is SWEET but the back cover has some mainly discoloration issues that I knew would bring the grade down. Well, the damn thing came back an EP (extensive professional) 5.5 and I am, needless to say, one irritated individual right now. How the hell that book got graded a 5.5 is beyond me. I'll call for graders' notes tomorrow but it's gonna take me awhile to get over this if I ever do.

 

Oh, and just to clarify things, I'm pissed at CGC and not Adam. He supplied the book as stated although we were both high on the grading estimate. I know...win some, lose some but this one is a BIG loser.

 

That's why...it's always best to buy an AF15 graded by CGC. One out of three out there, has some type of resto.

 

Since Mike gave me the "ok" to chime in, I just wanted to clarify that even though the situation w/ the grade stinks, the restoration itself was correctly disclosed. (The book was sold as having "Extensive Professional Restoration including color touch, pieces added,tear seals & spine reinforced.") We both agreed on the grade only to find out the bad news later that CGC has a different opinion.

 

The CGC grade still has me surprised. (Mike, please remember to send me a copy of the grader notes as soon as you get them and to keep in touch via PM. )

 

I'll be the first to admit that I know much more about grading today than I did when the book was sold in '08, and even a FN+ I could see. FN- was very surprising to me. I owned the book for a long time before selling, and remember the book very well so I'd be surprised if there were some large interior defect / water damage that was missed, but anything is possible. An earlier poster is exactly right that it is sometimes very difficult to accurately predict a CGC grade on an extensively restored book. Sometimes CGC will be very lenient on defects that have been "fixed" and treat them like they aren't there. Other times they can be very harsh if they feel a defect wasn't fixed well enough. (Just my experience anyway)

 

A 5.5 on that book is a headscratcher though!

 

 

Thanks for your input Adam. And you are correct...you did state extensive from the get-go. I was mistaken about saying that you had said moderate restoration. I'll call for the graders' notes tomorrow morning and will let you know via PM. (thumbs u

[Comicdey]

Joined again today.... Unrestored lower grade copy

 

What grade was it?

9.4

 

I wish ::

 

solid copy nice spine minor marvel chipping. 2.5 or so. I'll scan an post up in the grading forum when I get home and I'll post it in this thread as it is the AF 15 thread.

[Comicdey]

And the new addition....

 

I actually have that tiny chip missing from the bottom of the back and I'm really tempted to tape it in place :: crazy or what?

[piper]

Glad to see you back in the club!

[fantastic_four]

one thing to consider is that cgc grades restored books diff then unrestored... they have to, as no matter how good restored looks, there can always be visible flaws for them to deduct...

 

What makes you say this? I'm not seeing why they'd have to grade restored different than unrestored...a defect is a defect. I'm also unconvinced that they do grade them differently, although I know you've seen far more examples of CGC restored books than I have...I've only owned 3-4 PLODs, but they all seemed reasonably-graded.

 

The comments about CGC undergrading restored books, including the 5.5 being discussed, are pointless without grader notes. Almost every time I've seen an apparently-undergraded book, there's some defect that's impossible to see in a scan and easy to miss even in person such as a faint subscription crease, wide-area water stain, etc. CGC also tends to put exactly these sorts of defects in the notes so that the other graders don't end up overlooking them.

[fantastic_four]

just depends on the price...at the current 28K, it is a bargain, but reserve is not met... I believe this copy recently sold for about 58K (a huge drop from when it sold for almost 80K before)...

 

I think you are referring to the Mound City copy right? The MC copy is better than this copy, and went for a high price and peak price (possbile pressing candidate by a flipper ). As Brannon stated "this copy with a PQ nothing to brag about. "

nope, I mean this exact copy being offered in the Quality auction recently was purchased for approx 58K, and previous to that, I believe it sold for approx 80K (a huge 22K devaluation from purchase in 2008 to purchase in 2009)

 

The CGC 8.0 copy with chipping and cr/ow pages actually sold at Heritage for $52K. Do you know where it sold for $80K at previously? There are no sales in GPA at all for that high a price for an 8.0.

[Spiderturtle]

http://www.qualitycomix.com/auctions_detail.php?issue_id=15268

 

CGC 8.0 Cream to Off-White

 

Final Bid: $31,250 (Reserve Price Not Met)

 

Would've been a bargain if there had been no reserve and yes i am aware of the pre-chips/chips

[G.A.tor]

just depends on the price...at the current 28K, it is a bargain, but reserve is not met... I believe this copy recently sold for about 58K (a huge drop from when it sold for almost 80K before)...

 

I think you are referring to the Mound City copy right? The MC copy is better than this copy, and went for a high price and peak price (possbile pressing candidate by a flipper ). As Brannon stated "this copy with a PQ nothing to brag about. "

nope, I mean this exact copy being offered in the Quality auction recently was purchased for approx 58K, and previous to that, I believe it sold for approx 80K (a huge 22K devaluation from purchase in 2008 to purchase in 2009)

 

The CGC 8.0 copy with chipping and cr/ow pages actually sold at Heritage for $52K. Do you know where it sold for $80K at previously? There are no sales in GPA at all for that high a price for an 8.0.

pretty sure it was a comiclink sale... I knew it was in the 50's at heritage (just too lazy to look up exact amount, hence why I put "approx")... but 2 years ago on clink, it reportedly sold for 80K (I saved the scan, same book, and again, going from memory, it was clink)...

[G.A.tor]

one thing to consider is that cgc grades restored books diff then unrestored... they have to, as no matter how good restored looks, there can always be visible flaws for them to deduct...

 

What makes you say this? I'm not seeing why they'd have to grade restored different than unrestored...a defect is a defect. I'm also unconvinced that they do grade them differently, although I know you've seen far more examples of CGC restored books than I have...I've only owned 3-4 PLODs, but they all seemed reasonably-graded.

 

The comments about CGC undergrading restored books, including the 5.5 being discussed, are pointless without grader notes. Almost every time I've seen an apparently-undergraded book, there's some defect that's impossible to see in a scan and easy to miss even in person such as a faint subscription crease, wide-area water stain, etc. CGC also tends to put exactly these sorts of defects in the notes so that the other graders don't end up overlooking them.

I think you might be missing the point, or I might not have been clear in my statement...

a restored book, while it can visually "look" as good as an unrestored counterpart, has more flaws than the same looking book unrestored ... for example, from the front cover, a piece replaced and painted over, might look identical on a restored and an unrestored book, but from the inside cover, it is generally visually obvious where the piece was added, and that flaw would be deducted where as it would not on an unrestored example...

 

that was my point about they are "graded" differently, because visually, restored books might visually appear better than they structurally are, due to the type and level of work done, but they have more flaws than a visually comparable unrestored...

 

but cgc still deducts for flaws, on a cumulative basis, so didn't mean to imply they treated them differently, outside of there are always more flaws on a restored book, than an unrestored, no matter how good the work is (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

An odd thing to note about that cr/ow 8.0 book is that when I was providing a link to it a month or so ago from the Heritage site, I noticed it had one of those "make an offer" amounts for it that was visible at $70K, which seemed somewhat bizarre given that a week or two later a much nicer 8.0 copy sold on ComicLink for about $57K. However, I just checked it again a few minutes ago and I don't see that offer, which means one of the following:

 

• The offer was withdrawn
• The offer was rejected
• I'm on crack and never saw such an offer
  

Does anyone know if those make-an-offer amounts on Heritage disappear once they're rejected? ComicLink and Pedigree show them infinitely even after they've been turned down, which is rather unrealistic and stupid.

[G.A.tor]

An odd thing to note about that cr/ow 8.0 book is that when I was providing a link to it a month or so ago from the Heritage site, I noticed it had one of those "make an offer" amounts for it that was visible at $70K, which seemed somewhat bizarre given that a week or two later a much nicer 8.0 copy sold on ComicLink for about $57K. However, I just checked it again a few minutes ago and I don't see that offer, which means one of the following:

 

• The offer was withdrawn
• The offer was rejected
• I'm on crack and never saw such an offer
  

Does anyone know if those make-an-offer amounts on Heritage disappear once they're rejected? ComicLink and Pedigree show them infinitely even after they've been turned down, which is rather unrealistic and stupid.

not sure...the seller might have removed it being available, since they sold it?

 

 

[Shark]

looking at the scans, I personally think the book would be a stretch for a 7.0 but 5.5 is harsh. If I was to guess the grade, I may have given it a 6.0/6.5.

 

If Rick can throw up the scans of the 6.5 he has, as well as looking at Peewee 's old 7.0 copy that have been posted here multiple times, I think both of them are nicer than this one. But then again, it is unfair to compare Peewee's old 7.0 because that book looks nicer than most 7.5 I saw.

 

 

I'll agree with your assessment. I think I would have been OK with a 6.0-6.5 grade but I still think 5.5 is too harsh.

 

Well, I just got off the phone with CGC and here are the graders' notes on my AF #15 CGC EP5.5:

 

"Spine stress, light NCB crease mid front cover, corner creasing top left back cover, general wear". So nothing big here. But here's the shocker in the notes:

 

" 7" corner crease bottom front cover (NCB)"

 

I sure as hell didn't see a 7" crease on that front cover. It looked gorgeous to me (and probably to Adam too). Sounds like a good pressing might be in order to bring the grade up on this puppy.

 

 

 

[G.A.tor]

looking at the scans, I personally think the book would be a stretch for a 7.0 but 5.5 is harsh. If I was to guess the grade, I may have given it a 6.0/6.5.

 

If Rick can throw up the scans of the 6.5 he has, as well as looking at Peewee 's old 7.0 copy that have been posted here multiple times, I think both of them are nicer than this one. But then again, it is unfair to compare Peewee's old 7.0 because that book looks nicer than most 7.5 I saw.

 

 

I'll agree with your assessment. I think I would have been OK with a 6.0-6.5 grade but I still think 5.5 is too harsh.

 

Well, I just got off the phone with CGC and here are the graders' notes on my AF #15 CGC EP5.5:

 

"Spine stress, light NCB crease mid front cover, corner creasing top left back cover, general wear". So nothing big here. But here's the shocker in the notes:

 

" 7" corner crease bottom front cover (NCB)"

 

I sure as hell didn't see a 7" crease on that front cover. It looked gorgeous to me (and probably to Adam too). Sounds like a good pressing might be in order to bring the grade up on this puppy.

 

 

no doubt NCB creases are the flaws that are easiest to remove (thumbs u