How far into the '80's will the Bronze Age creep?

[awe4one]

If it has a 40 cent cover then it's not Bronze in my book...

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

The Bronze age, for all intents and purposes, had come to a close by 1981.

 

Agreed, pretty much.

 

But Doc, will you agree with me that there are forces at work attempting to reclassify much more of the 1980's as part of the Age of Bronze?

 

I think it's not too much a stretch to believe that people with 1980s books to sell might want to call them Bronze Age. Apart from everything else, the "Bronze Age' books were the last ones distributed primarily through the newstand and grocery stores, so more of the surviving copies exist as low grade rather than high grade. That's not the case with Direct Sales era books, which are plentiful in relative high grade.

 

I wonder if CGC actually has it right identifying "Modern" as 1975-up. Clearly by the time Jim Shooter could launch Dazzler as a Direct Only title, the newstand was no longer the primary breadwinner for Marvel. But how much earlier than that was the Direct Market a viable alternative, facilitating the wholesale hoarding of high-grade books? I remember the first comic con I attended I was amazed to see books on sale a whole month before they were supposed to hit the newstand. That was 1977 or so, so maybe 1975 really is the tipping point for the Direct Market and hence the end of any true scarcity of high grade books.

I don't believe that CGC's use of the term "Modern" and the use of the term in describing an age are congruent. That just happens to be the title of one of their grading tiers. It very well could have been called "Current."

[awe4one]

And I cannot believe OS is playing along with this BS.

 

I agree...no long time Bronze collector I know agreed with OS' rational and thought it laughable.

 

Jim

[TupennyConan]

Why?

 

OSPG 38th Edition:

 

Bronze Age - Comics published from 1970 to 1984.

 

 

[joe_collector]

That's exactly the point - OS is a dealer mouthpiece for this revised BA stupidity.

[Zonker]

The Bronze age, for all intents and purposes, had come to a close by 1981.

 

Agreed, pretty much.

 

But Doc, will you agree with me that there are forces at work attempting to reclassify much more of the 1980's as part of the Age of Bronze?

 

I think it's not too much a stretch to believe that people with 1980s books to sell might want to call them Bronze Age. Apart from everything else, the "Bronze Age' books were the last ones distributed primarily through the newstand and grocery stores, so more of the surviving copies exist as low grade rather than high grade. That's not the case with Direct Sales era books, which are plentiful in relative high grade.

 

I wonder if CGC actually has it right identifying "Modern" as 1975-up. Clearly by the time Jim Shooter could launch Dazzler as a Direct Only title, the newstand was no longer the primary breadwinner for Marvel. But how much earlier than that was the Direct Market a viable alternative, facilitating the wholesale hoarding of high-grade books? I remember the first comic con I attended I was amazed to see books on sale a whole month before they were supposed to hit the newstand. That was 1977 or so, so maybe 1975 really is the tipping point for the Direct Market and hence the end of any true scarcity of high grade books.

I don't believe that CGC's use of the term "Modern" and the use of the term in describing an age are congruent. That just happens to be the title of one of their grading tiers. It very well could have been called "Current."

 

I just mean CGC independently decided that grading 1975 & up books would have a lower price point. What was special about 1975? Maybe that same special-ness is what we're also looking for in a Bronze Age milestone.

[TupennyConan]

Why 1975 for CGC's pricing?

 

Because H181 was published November 1974.

 

CGC: the house H181 built.

[DrWatson]

I think it's nothing but a matter of volume. You have a large number of popular books that can be graded at an attractive price point. I don't believe there is any correlation to CGC's use of 1975 and the Bronze age.

[kimik]

If it had not been corroborated by folks in the other thread I would have to agree with you.

 

I'd like to talk to these "folks" who firmly believe that both Marvel and DC would have gone out of business had Star Wars #1 not hit the shelves in 1977.

 

Not that they would go out of business but that sales were dropping and that SW #1 brought an upturn and more attention to comics.

 

I can't personally comment since I was still months away from my second birthday when SW came out, but it does not surprise me that comic sales were slipping due to the economic issues at the time. Makes me wonder how hard the industry will be hit if we have a 3 - 5 year repeat now.......

[kimik]

I think it's nothing but a matter of volume. You have a large number of popular books that can be graded at an attractive price point. I don't believe there is any correlation to CGC's use of 1975 and the Bronze age.

 

I think it is more due to the fact that there is quite a bit of difference in pricing for most common and even key issues before and after 1975. Most of the late 70s books do not guide for $20, which would mean you would be paying more for slabbing fees ($29 or $49) than most books are worth. This would significantly reduce the volume of slabbed books from that time period IMHO.

[40sJohn]

About what year does bronze stop feeling bronze to you Vince?

 

Near the end of 1980/start of 1981, after the Death of Phoenix.

 

What's really weird, is that two incredibly important books/events happened in January of 1981 - X-Men 141 Days of Future Past (which essentially set up a few decades of X-stories) and Daredevil 168 (where Frank Miller started his run and introduced Elektra). On the DC side, New Teen Titans appeared on November of 1980. right around the time when Dark Phoenix was being offed.

 

1981 was also when Jim Shooter tried to really take over Marvel and put his stamp on the company, pushing the DM, introducing Dazzler #1 in March of 1981, Byrne started his FF run in July of 1981, etc.

 

I agree with JC on this one. As a collector at the time, I felt like the industry, hobby, market, or whatever changed in the early '80s. Personally, I like to tag the end of the Bronze Age with the move to Direct Sales, the serious rise of independent titles, and for me a subtle change in the style of art and stories. By then end of '81, comics had moved into the Copper Age.

[joe_collector]

Why 1975 for CGC's pricing?

 

Because H181 was published November 1974.

 

You beat me to it.

 

It's amusing how many bizarre theories are borne out of something so basic.

[joe_collector]

Not that they would go out of business but that sales were dropping and that SW #1 brought an upturn and more attention to comics.

 

But that's not what Chuckles said:

 

In my opinion, that was one substantial reason reason why Marvel and DC didn't just shut down during that dreadful year.

 

It's pretty obvious that Star Wars had some economic impact on the biz, but as many others stated, no more than PPSSM, or the mass of other #1 issues that cropped up in 1977. To say that SW #1 "saved the comics business" is a pretty bizarre rant, even for Chuckie Cheese.

[kidcolt]

I usually consider it untill the end of 1979.

[TupennyConan]

Why 1975 for CGC's pricing?

 

Because H181 was published November 1974.

 

You beat me to it.

 

It's amusing how many bizarre theories are borne out of something so basic.

 

I'm pretty proud of this nutty one

[40sJohn]

If it has a 40 cent cover then it's not Bronze in my book...

 

Jim

 

Just saw your reponse... and even though I feel like Bronze ended sometime in '81 or possibly '80... anything with more than a 35cent cover just doesn't feel as 'bronze" as the 20centers to me. (thumbs u

[BronzeBruce13]

If it has a 40 cent cover then it's not Bronze in my book...

 

Jim

 

Just saw your reponse... and even though I feel like Bronze ended sometime in '81 or possibly '80... anything with more than a 35cent cover just doesn't feel as 'bronze" as the 20centers to me. (thumbs u

 

I am struggling with these two lines as well.

Definitely agree as mentioned earlier, 40¢ (for the most part) does not "feel" Bronze... but at the same time Vince's 1980-81 rationale posted earlier in this thread "also" make sense. I sorta' felt an exception is warranted with the Dark Phoenix 40¢ new X-men too.

 

After digesting the well-expressed views in this thread, I would be inclined to go with 1970 to 1981 with a few months nudge exception (in either direction) to include various beginning and endings.

[General Zod]

I collect Silver Age and I am not too familiar with later pricing structures. Is it possible to make a connection between the original price of a book and the age it belongs to?

 

 

That's not really possible because both Bronze Age and Copper Age have significant cover price ranges inside their eras.

 

Some say the end of the "Bronze Age" is marked by the emergence of the "direct market", not the begining or end of any comic title, or event. I disagree with this notion. Judging by the responses in this thread the "Bronze Age" ended over a period of several years.

 

This I can agree with strongly. A lot of titles had different kinds of runs going on.

[JWKyle]

I always thought of the 15-25 cent comics as the bronze age. I really don't care if someone tries to sell a 40 cent and up comic as bronze age it just shows there lack of knowledge or they may feel that what they are doing is correct in there own mind who knows and who cares. This is a debate like religion or politics there is no black line there is a gray line and what is one persons bronze is another persons copper. For me like I stated at first if it's a 25 cent book (or a 30 cent variant) then it's a bronze if not then a don't in my own collection think of it as bronze book. Does that make it any less collectible ?

[joe_collector]

The problem is, that the BA has been noted as ending in the 1980-81 range for well over a decade, but recently, some OS dealers (with longbox after longbox of early-80's crepe) have been trying to extend it to the mid-80's.

 

I don't care what date you choose as the end point, be it 1974, 1976 or 1978, but given all the evidence and historical data, anyone that extends it beyond 1981 is just plain wrong,