Refrigeration to store comics?

[insanebidder-migration]

Has anyone tried something similar to store comics?

 

-A basic refrigerator "with" a temperature setting, moved up to around 40 degrees to prevent ice crystals from forming in/on comics

-Comics placed within closed comic boxes and then within the fridge itself

-Within the boxes place Damprid or some other kind of dessicant to bring RH down to 40-50 percent

-Of course, have all of the internal fridge shelves removed so that small comic boxes can be stacked sideways.

 

Not many could fit, of course, but for those wanting the best in protection, it sounds like an interesting idea. Wouldn't work unless the temperature was raised to prevent ice crystals within the pages, and also wouldn't work unless the RH was brought down within the boxes themselves, but that's not a problem with Damprid if you have enough of it

 

Has anyone ever tried such a thing? Sounds like a pricey project---but compared to lowering ones household temperature 5-6 degrees just to cool a small but pricey collection, it might just be cost effective in the long run. No?

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnBull]

 

Have you thought of changing your user name to something catchier - maybe 2 syllables shorter ?

[OldSchoolTerry]

That sounds like a pretty good idea.

 

I just couldn't do it, because my beer would get warm then, sitting on the floor!!

[minutekev@50]

Mike Benton, in Collecting Comic Books for Fun and Profit, noted that a fridge would be the ideal place for storing a collection if not for the moisture.

[Carter_Hall-migration]

I live in Ft. Lauderdale,...do you think the constant humidity is bad for my books?

[minutekev@50]

Yes...move away as quickly as possible..

By the way welcome to the boards. I've been to Fort Lauderdale twice, (both times when I was in the Navy), fun place!

[Carter_Hall-migration]

Thanks,...I keep them boxed in a dark walk in closet ,...but should I put in a small de-humidifier, or would that make matters worse?

[seank]

If I stored my comics in a fridge, where then would I store my fine red wine?

 

And if you do store your comics in the fridge, be sure to put a few sticks of butter in there, too.

[insanebidder-migration]

I was just thinking as a "second" fridge unit. Or, perhaps, if they made those wider, deeper ones like they do with freezer units. At 40 degrees, then with some containers of Damprid in the box, if the comics maintained a 50 RH then according to the preservation index they could basically last 310 years without deterioration. Not that we'll be around that long, but it's a nice gesture to leave the kids something. . After all, cold storage "areas" have been what kept a lot of the pedigree copies in tip top shape. Mile High and Denver copies originated from Boulder and Denver, with an avg. year temp. of 52, White Mountains NH, supposedly the origin for the White Mountain collection, has an avg. temp. of 45 degrees, Bethlehem NY 47.4 degrees, Allentown PA avg. 50 degrees, etc. Starting to see the pattern? Actually, except for the Colorado collections (Mile High and Denver) all of the humidity levels weren't as much of a contributor to condition as was the cold. Except for the Colorado collections, which had low RH in the range of 40 percent, the average humidity for the pedigree origins I've found have been 68% RH! Oh, and yes, to the one who asked, I'm insane. . Nah, I just like to experiment and throw out theories, that's all.

 

 

 

 

[OldSchoolTerry]

You mean a refrigerator that was shaped like one of these meat freezers, where you open the lid from the top, and it's real deep inside? That would be perfect for storing comic boxes. Do they make refrigerators in that shape, though? I imagine they might, for bars and restaurants. I've never seen one, though....

[Carter_Hall-migration]

You should go to a local restaraunt supply company...there are usually local companies that have auctions and you can get used equiptment pretty cheap. I got a flat top beer cooler for $150.00 that I put in my basement to store beer,wine and soda.

[insanebidder-migration]

Terry 1, yeah, that's what I meant! However, even if they didn't make them for fridges, if the freezer units had a temperature control setting on it, and it could be cranked to like 40-50 degrees, that's a possibility. Seems as though the average temperature for most of the pedigree collections were around 48.6 degrees, so to be on the safe side I'd say some kind of enclosure with a 50 degree capability and then some containers of Damprid within the comic boxes themselves to maintain a 40-50 RH within each comic box. Sounds perfect, and a temp such as 50 shouldn't form ice crystals. The main thing you'd have to worry about would be humidity, and as I said before, some kind of dessicant within each comic box (I prefer calcium chloride--Damprid because it doesn't have to be recharged--just replaced when it's done). Also, to keep any moisture out of the boxes, you would need to seal the corners of the box, as well as any openings or grooves. That's what I do with mine now. Even the Acid free boxes that don't have the handles have little ways on the bottom corners and grooves on the lid that will enable things/humidity to get it.

Now we just need to find someone with the capability to try this for a few months on some "lower grade" books for testing purposes. I personally don't have 300-400 dollars to spare at the moment to buy something like that. Or the space.

 

Brent

 

[CosmicBob]

Didn't Reynold Jay (Mr. Captain Canuck) have a bunch of comics he said were stored in a freezer or something like that. I think they came back pretty high grade.

 

It was one of his big selling points. As I recall.

[fantastic_four]

Remember, the states of a compound are gas --> liquid --> solid, and at 50 degrees in a sealed environment like the freezer you describe, damprid wouldn't be necessary because water would condensate into a liquid. And that's your problem...condensation will form on the boxes and the comics just like it does on my car in the late fall and early Spring and just like it does on most of your stuff in a refrigerator. This is why Reynold Jay wraps his comic book boxes in plastic, so the condensation collects on the plastic.

 

I know that he's had problem keeping that condensation off the books once he wants to take them out of the freezer, so you'll need to talk to him or a preservation expert to see how to prevent moisture damage. I've been meaning to call one of the keepers of library "cold rooms" for a year or so now but haven't gotten around to it yet.

[OldSchoolTerry]

How do you store them now exactly? Do you just have them in a dark closet? I was also curious if you were talking about your more valuable books, or all of them?

 

Funny sidenote.... I've always taken care of my better comics, but I had a couple of boxes of [!@#%^&^] stuff (good reading, but worthless) in my attic for about the last 3 years (in the same poly bags they've been in for the last 15 years), where it reached 130 degrees in the summer, and was freezing in the winter, and other than some slight page yellowing, it seems like there hasn't been any damage to the books. Maybe we should explore the merits of attic storage....

[insanebidder-migration]

FF,

 

I was thinking perhaps, since the outside of a box wouldn't be protected, to somehow line the outside of the box and lid with Mylar, seeing as how it's less able to transmit gasses, etc. back and forth through it. I saw a chart one time that showed how water vapor "could" pass through it, although it was a very small amount. I moved a bunch of things around in my fridge and I'm testing a severely damaged and no value comic in Mylar in a basic comic box which has been sealed somewhat to keep out moisture. First I'll see what the results are without Damprid and then with it just to see what happens to the comic. Now, although you stated that condensation will naturally form, what if I managed to keep the inside of the box somewhat on the lower end of the dry spectrum (40%) with Damprid? Wouldn't that somehow prevent the moisture from forming? I suppose there's only one way to find out, no?

 

Other guy,

 

I normally keep my comics in Mylar in an acid-free box in a dark closet. I also have two containers of 12 oz. damprid within the box to keep down moisture (I live in Florida). I also place a sheet of Microchamber acid-absorbing paper within the front/back covers like CGC does in addition to using buffered backing boards. It's a pain, but with the harsh environment that Florida has, it's a necessity.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

I had a couple of boxes of [!@#%^&^] stuff (good reading, but worthless) in my attic for about the last 3 years (in the same poly bags they've been in for the last 15 years), where it reached 130 degrees in the summer, and was freezing in the winter, and other than some slight page yellowing, it seems like there hasn't been any damage to the books. Maybe we should explore the merits of attic storage....

 

Yellowing is what good storage is meant to avoid...the goal with temperature and humidity control should be that books go into your environment and come back out a long time later with exactly the same page quality. It takes decades for pages to go off-white, tan, brown, and brittle...had you left them in the attic for another decade, the pages would have been more like cream or tan.

 

Anybody who doesn't think they're keeping their comics for a long haul probably doesn't need to care much about storing them well.

[fantastic_four]

I moved a bunch of things around in my fridge and I'm testing a severely damaged and no value comic in Mylar in a basic comic box which has been sealed somewhat to keep out moisture. First I'll see what the results are without Damprid and then with it just to see what happens to the comic. Now, although you stated that condensation will naturally form, what if I managed to keep the inside of the box somewhat on the lower end of the dry spectrum (40%) with Damprid? Wouldn't that somehow prevent the moisture from forming? I suppose there's only one way to find out, no?

 

My hypothesis is that Damprid will have the same hard time absorbing humidity that my dehumidifier does once the temperature goes below 70 degrees. I'm not entirely sure why, but dehumidifiers don't work below 70...I guess it's because the gaseous water gets closer to a liquid state, the molecules slow down, and it doesn't move around the room as much as it does when the temperature is higher. So I would think your Damprid will do absolutely nothing in the fridge, but I guess you'll find out!

[insanebidder-migration]

I just emailed Reynold Jay of biccomix the following question......

 

Mr. Jay,

 

Recently I obtained some information on a web board pertaining to you freezing comics. Although not interested in freezing, per say, because of the no doubt difficult defrosting procedures, I have been discussing refrigeration techniques with my fellow board members. Here's my plan. I was wondering if you could give me any insight on why this may or may not work. First, the inside of the refrigeration unit would be set at 40 degrees. Well above freezing. Second, the comics would be placed within an archivally taped (On corners, any gaps, etc. that might be present) acid free comic book box. On the outside of the box, to prevent moisture damage to the box itself, would be Mylar all the way around (Including the lid), which has a very low water vapor transmission rate. On the inside bottom of the box and top of the box would be a sheet of secured Microchamber absorption paper to absorb byproduct gasses from any aging process. Within the box itself each comic would be placed in Mylar, yet not sealed to allow for byproduct gasses to escape and/or be absorbed by the Microchamber paper. Within the front/back covers of each book would be a piece of Microchamber absorption paper, in addition to a buffered backing board on the outside back of the book. Last, but not least, would be either one or two 12 oz. containers of Calcium Chloride "Damprid" brand, which is a really good moisture absorber--it needs to be replaced every now and then, but it's really cheap. I would plan on achieving a 40% RH within the box itself.

Not having the financial means (Or storage space in "my" fridge to test out my theory on a long-term basis), I am curious if you could tell me what you think......

 

Brent

 

[fantastic_four]

Hey, stick your digital hygrometer in the fridge right now and see what the humidity is in there over the next day or so