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Mastro Net Auctions - Subpoena - Shill Bidding

Started by Jokerman,

58 posts in this topic

Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted
Let's see..........

 

If Mastro moves to Texas they can have shill bidding? (thumbs u

 

I guess that means Heritage conducts shill bidding? (shrug)

 

If true, then Heritage cannot get good prices for most / some books without shill bidding? :o

 

However, the other comic auction houses (none in Texas) do get the great realized prices and can't conduct shill bidding? why such great prices? hm

 

What is wrong with this picture? doh!

 

Jay

 

Auction House employee-bids being unique to Texas may be a myth.

 

LINK (emphasis mine)

 

Forbes article: "One way to make sure those babies keep rising in price: Halperin allows Heritage employees--himself included--to bid on items it auctions off. What seller wouldn't appreciate having a shill right there on the premises? Especially one with deep pockets."

 

 

Halperin reply: "As far as I know, no major auctioneer forbids employees to bid. Our employees have no advantage over other bidders, are not allowed to access any information unavailable to our other bidders, and must pay the same Buyer's Premium as everyone else. Our job as auctioneers is to create a fair and equitable marketplace, not to keep prices artificially low by excluding legitimate buyers."

 

Maybe everybody's doin' it. (shrug)

 

Rules for Mastro Auctions August 2008 Auction

 

"6. Subject to exceptions relating to credit considerations, all qualified bidders in good standing are eligible to bid on any lot in the auction, including employees and executives of Mastro Auctions, Inc."

 

 

 

 

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lou_fine

lou_fine

Posted
Posted
"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

Uh-oh.........

Man, it would be so great if the federal investigators could swing by and pay a visit to our little hobby too. :wishluck:

 

Yes, this is most definitely the exact same thing that is happening right now in our little hobby. You actually need to look no further than the cozy relationship between Heritage and Matt Nelson. Or the massive amount of manipulated comic book laundering that is being done on the CLink and Pedigree auction sites. (tsk)

 

The only real difference is that CGC, the comic doctors, and the auction houses in our hobby have been able to spin the story that these practices are actually a positive for the buyers even though they will not proactively disclose what was done to a book. A perfect scenario for them to continue activities unabated that are viewed as criminal and unethical in any other collectibles field. :screwy:

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

That's baloney. As much as I hate to say it, ebay does, in fact, have a proactive system in place to detect shilling. The problem is the blind eye eBay turns to this activity in many respects, and the lack of an obvious (to other users) punishment system to identify those sellers who have shill bid.

 

But let no one deceive themselves into thinking that ebay isn't fully aware when shilling happens.

 

They have much better IT than most. IP address comparison, cookie detection, all sorts of ways to discover shilling.

 

Even still, all the hand wringing about how "obvious" the shill bidding may be in the example given means nothing: it won't stand up in a court of law. Despite all the "obviousness", it cannot be PROVEN if the shill bidding happens on a totally unrelated computer by an "unrelated" user.

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fingfangfoom

fingfangfoom

Posted
Posted
"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

Uh-oh.........

Man, it would be so great if the federal investigators could swing by and pay a visit to our little hobby too. :wishluck:

 

I really believe it is only a matter of time Tim. Only a matter of time.

 

+1

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jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
Whoa :o That's pretty daaamm creepy if you ask me! My father in law is a big fan of Mastro but he's never mentioned any of this to me. Zipper, if you know of any other published articles discussing Mastro along these lines, I would greatly appreciate it if you could PM me links so I can pass them along (as I did with this news story).

 

NY Daily News: Feds swarm to question card sharks

 

The Daily News article seems more focused on the Feds zeroing in on PSA and "cards that have been altered" , as well as Mastro.

 

"...questioned employees of Professional Sports Authenticator, the hobby's top card grading service.

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor,"..."

 

:eek:

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

Uh-oh.........

 

I think we will be ok on this point as there are no ethics in comic collectibles market. :tonofbricks:

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
Whoa :o That's pretty daaamm creepy if you ask me! My father in law is a big fan of Mastro but he's never mentioned any of this to me. Zipper, if you know of any other published articles discussing Mastro along these lines, I would greatly appreciate it if you could PM me links so I can pass them along (as I did with this news story).

 

NY Daily News: Feds swarm to question card sharks

 

The Daily News article seems more focused on the Feds zeroing in on PSA and "cards that have been altered" , as well as Mastro.

 

"...questioned employees of Professional Sports Authenticator, the hobby's top card grading service.

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor,"..."

 

:eek:

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

Uh-oh.........

 

I think we will be ok on this point as there are no ethics in comic collectibles market. :tonofbricks:

 

 

hm

 

 

Who does one call to initiate such an investigation? :fear:

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Old Fashion PB and J

Old Fashion PB and J

Posted
Posted
Whoa :o That's pretty daaamm creepy if you ask me! My father in law is a big fan of Mastro but he's never mentioned any of this to me. Zipper, if you know of any other published articles discussing Mastro along these lines, I would greatly appreciate it if you could PM me links so I can pass them along (as I did with this news story).

 

NY Daily News: Feds swarm to question card sharks

 

The Daily News article seems more focused on the Feds zeroing in on PSA and "cards that have been altered" , as well as Mastro.

 

"...questioned employees of Professional Sports Authenticator, the hobby's top card grading service.

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor,"..."

 

:eek:

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

Uh-oh.........

It will happen eventually. :shy:
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Ares

Ares

Posted
Posted
Whoa :o That's pretty daaamm creepy if you ask me! My father in law is a big fan of Mastro but he's never mentioned any of this to me. Zipper, if you know of any other published articles discussing Mastro along these lines, I would greatly appreciate it if you could PM me links so I can pass them along (as I did with this news story).

 

NY Daily News: Feds swarm to question card sharks

 

The Daily News article seems more focused on the Feds zeroing in on PSA and "cards that have been altered" , as well as Mastro.

 

"...questioned employees of Professional Sports Authenticator, the hobby's top card grading service.

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor,"..."

 

:eek:

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

Uh-oh.........

 

I think we will be ok on this point as there are no ethics in comic collectibles market. :tonofbricks:

Unethical to alter the cards not illegal.

Illegal to sell altered cards as unaltered yes.

Two different things.

 

If they were selling the altered cards as unaltered thats different

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The Question?

The Question?

Posted
Posted
As some folks here know, I am very involved in the Universal Autograph Collectors Club (UACC). I've written several articles and been interviewed by national publications on the matter of fraud and forgery.

 

About a year ago, a very reliable, well know collector told me that he consigned a number of items to Mastro and was very disappointed with the auction results. He contacted Mastro and asked to have a reserve put on his items that were scheduled to appear in an upcoming auction.

 

Mastro told him that they did not allow reserves, but he could just register under a different name and make sure the bids went up to a level he was comfortable with.

 

He then asked what would happen if he "won" one of his own auctions. He was told that he would have to buy it, as well as pay the buyers and sellers commission.

 

:eek:

 

Mastro should have just moved to Texas. Then they could've had a Mastro employee bid up the auctions and no laws would've been broken.

 

 

 

 

:applause:

 

 

 

 

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
As some folks here know, I am very involved in the Universal Autograph Collectors Club (UACC). I've written several articles and been interviewed by national publications on the matter of fraud and forgery.

 

About a year ago, a very reliable, well know collector told me that he consigned a number of items to Mastro and was very disappointed with the auction results. He contacted Mastro and asked to have a reserve put on his items that were scheduled to appear in an upcoming auction.

 

Mastro told him that they did not allow reserves, but he could just register under a different name and make sure the bids went up to a level he was comfortable with.

 

He then asked what would happen if he "won" one of his own auctions. He was told that he would have to buy it, as well as pay the buyers and sellers commission.

 

:eek:

 

Wow.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
You guys all realize this thread is a year old and bumped by Mr. Cohen?

 

So? It's new to me. :slapfight:

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Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

Posted
Posted
"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

Uh-oh.........

Man, it would be so great if the federal investigators could swing by and pay a visit to our little hobby too. :wishluck:

 

And a wave of fear just rippled through the industry. Still how can you prove that underbids were done intentionally unless you get someone to sing?

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dekeuk

dekeuk

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a "card doctor," somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

 

 

 

"flattens out creases" hm

 

where have I heard that before hm

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CatskillMike

CatskillMike

Posted
Posted

If Heritage employees are allowed to bid, I say so what. Those aren't shill bidders, they are legit bids from a legit bidder, aren't they? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Now if they aren't made to pay up, that's different.

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