Poll...Should Pressing be Disclosed?

[mica]

predictable

[ChasingKingKirby]

 

Ah, another thread that has nothing to do with this morning's. (thumbs u

 

Got any more?

 

Like I said in the other post, I think these most definitely do have relevance. The same trend lines show over time - nobody really cares if a book is pressed, but people want disclosure.

 

With the way books change hands, isn't it almost a pointless exercise though? How long will it be before no one has any idea what books have been pressed unless they are bought from the presser? I think it's awesome and commendable that Joey always discloses, but Clink doesn't disclose and neither does Heritage, much less ebay. The knowledge transfer can get interrupted fairly quickly. That's why my assumption is that every book I buy is pressed unless it's in an old label. At that point I think that MAYBE it's not pressed. I personally am fairly ambivalent, but for those that it matters to, I just don't think there is much of an answer to always knowing whether or not a book is pressed.

[dupont2005]

How long will it be before no one has any idea what books have been pressed unless they are bought from the presser?

How long will it take for a grading company to reliably detect pressing and mark the slab as so?

[ChasingKingKirby]

How long will it be before no one has any idea what books have been pressed unless they are bought from the presser?

How long will it take for a grading company to reliably detect pressing and mark the slab as so?

 

So.. Never.

[RockMyAmadeus]

predictable

 

 

Not replying, just saying hi.

 

[dupont2005]

How long will it be before no one has any idea what books have been pressed unless they are bought from the presser?

How long will it take for a grading company to reliably detect pressing and mark the slab as so?

 

So.. Never.

I don't know... Forensics can tell which direction a caveman farted 10,000 years ago. I think if CGC wanted to, they could reliably and accurately mark labels when comics have been pressed. Same with sigs, a handwriting expert can send a man to prison by looking at a check, you would think CGC could say without a shadow of a doubt if any of those millions of comics that were signed before CGC was founded are authentic and worthy of a yellow slab. I think one of three things is going to happen. 1) slabbing falls out of fashion altogether. 2) CGC steps up their services and starts detecting pressing and dry cleaning as well as verifying non witnessed sigs. 3) Someone with deep pockets kicks off a company that will do all that and more, giving CGC some serious competition.

[fantastic_four]

I don't know... Forensics can tell which direction a caveman farted 10,000 years ago. I think if CGC wanted to, they could reliably and accurately mark labels when comics have been pressed. Same with sigs, a handwriting expert can send a man to prison by looking at a check, you would think CGC could say without a shadow of a doubt if any of those millions of comics that were signed before CGC was founded are authentic and worthy of a yellow slab. I think one of three things is going to happen. 1) slabbing falls out of fashion altogether. 2) CGC steps up their services and starts detecting pressing and dry cleaning as well as verifying non witnessed sigs. 3) Someone with deep pockets kicks off a company that will do all that and more, giving CGC some serious competition.

 

Forensics will never be able to tell which direction a caveman farted 10,000 years ago. In the infinity of information which surrounds us, the majority of it doesn't leave a practically detectable trace. To just blindly think we can unravel the chaos around us if we set our minds to it or that every disease is curable is to have a very high lack of respect for entropy.

 

That doesn't mean I think comic pressing is undetectable...it IS detectable. I just can't figure out how you differentiate it from naturally-occurring signs of high humidity, temperature, and pressure.

[Comicopolis]

 

That doesn't mean I think comic pressing is undetectable...it IS detectable. I just can't figure out how you differentiate it from naturally-occurring signs of high humidity, temperature, and pressure.

 

I still think in the long term, pressing is going to hurt the hobby. Conservation, or restoration, it has altered the book in a un-natural and significant way. It should be disclosed.

 

Which element of pressing is at all unnatural? It's the fact that the elements of pressing ARE natural that leads to CGC being unable to detect it being done.

 

[dupont2005]

I just can't figure out how you differentiate it from naturally-occurring signs of high humidity, temperature, and pressure.

One MAJOR clue would be if the same exact book had been submitted six months prior without those naturally occurring signs. Another would be if one person regularly submits hundreds of books with that same uniform naturally occurring phenomenon.

 

And natural or not, if the fibers of the paper appear to be pressed, why not notate it? Either ir was done by machine or was a result of storage, like spine roll.

[EastEnd]

There is another element to consider here: disclosure of pressing ironically encourages MORE pressing. Those that press actively seek unpressed candidates to improve... and are pretty aggressive in doing so from what I can tell.

[TFL-migration]

I believe that pressing is restoration. Pressing should be disclosed if the seller knows the book has been pressed or not. The answer to the question can also affect the sale{s} of a book{s}.

 

A buyer may see something on a book. Something that pressing could either help or totally get rid of. A small NCB crease on a corner for example. Or something else where pressing would improve the overall grade of a book. The difference between a 9.4 to a 9.6 can be very dramatic. Thousands of dollars on some of the bigger key book's.

 

If the seller says the book has not been pressed. The buyer would probably buy that book. Then they have the book looked at by a professional. The professional says the book can indeed be improved.

 

For less than $50 -$65 w/shipping. The new owner now has a 9.6 copy of a key book. For less than $100 the new buyer has just made a few thousand dollars. Depending on the book of course.

 

If the book has been pressed and is priced correctly. The flipper/buyer will be a little less inclined to buy the book. Once again this depends on why the book was being looked at in the first place.

 

If the book is needed to fill in part of a run. The book may still be bought. If it is a book that the possible new owner is hoping to flip for a quick profit. The sale will come down to the answer of yes or no.

 

Either way I believe that pressing is restoration. A seller should disclose the book has been pressed if they know.

[hockey&comicsguy]

I believe you owe somebody some money. Or as Pootie would say:

 

 

 

The more I think about pressing the less I care. If that's even possible.

 

I'll proactively disclose it if I know about it b/c lots of folks want to know that kind of thing.

 

When I buy I don't ask b/c TBH I don't really care. I'm just a collector and I don't look for flip opportunities b/c this is just a hobby for me and I rather enjoy just buying books I like and then selling them when I don't want them anymore or want something else. It's pretty simple.

 

 

[Bat-Man]

It's a gray area in some senses.

 

Do I think its un-ethical not to disclose it? No.

 

Do I appreciate and want it to be disclosed if I'm buying. Yes.

 

 

My opinion is Yes, but I would not throw someone under the bus for not disclosing.

[Hibou]

I hope to have a solid opinion on this soon...

[passion4comics]

If I pack my comics real tight into a box isn't that pressing too?

 

I don't think it's restoration. Nothing is added, nothing is removed. There are no chemical agents that interact with the existing paper or ink from what I've read.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

If I pack my comics real tight into a box isn't that pressing too?

 

I don't think it's restoration. Nothing is added, nothing is removed. There are no chemical agents that interact with the existing paper or ink from what I've read.

 

 

Well, Overstreet disagreed with you for about 25 years.

 

And show me the dictionary that insists that 'restoration' requires the addition or subtraction of anything?

 

The 'adding or subtracting' was a cute little get-out clause used by the pro-pressers a few years back.

[dupont2005]

If I pack my comics real tight into a box isn't that pressing too?

 

 

Yes, Yes it is. Now everyone with a press can throw it away, and everyone that uses pressing services can stop, because the same exact result can be achieved by packing a book tightly in a box. Problem solved (thumbs u

[passion4comics]

If I pack my comics real tight into a box isn't that pressing too?

 

I don't think it's restoration. Nothing is added, nothing is removed. There are no chemical agents that interact with the existing paper or ink from what I've read.

 

 

Well, Overstreet disagreed with you for about 25 years.

 

And show me the dictionary that insists that 'restoration' requires the addition or subtraction of anything?

 

The 'adding or subtracting' was a cute little get-out clause used by the pro-pressers a few years back.

 

Then once again: where is the open standard where an entire community decides on a set of rules that everyone goes by? It can start in an RFC that states pressing is restoration which will be argued. In the end you have a set of standards that are used by everyone to level the buying and selling field. Both buyers and seller have equal weight in what is decided.

 

Pressers say it's not restoration. Buyers say it is. Sellers will not disclose it because when it comes down to selling a book as a 9.4 or a 9.6 what do you think most will do? Collectors who hold those 9.4 books will fight tooth and nail against pressing.

 

The world is not Overstreet and CGC. It's the buyers and sellers dictating what the industry is and what's needed. The strict definition of restoration means anything that brings something to a former state. I think the question is if there is any real physical difference between a pressed book and a non-pressed book other than (example) a crease being removed. If my shirt has wrinkles when it comes out of the wash I doubt anyone here would say that I'm "restoring" my shirt when it's ironed.

 

I'm annoyingly playing devils advocate again. If I were to buy a pressed book I would be pissed.

 

This response may be choppy. I've been working all day and into the night. I'm shot.

 

 

[passion4comics]

If I pack my comics real tight into a box isn't that pressing too?

 

 

Yes, Yes it is. Now everyone with a press can throw it away, and everyone that uses pressing services can stop, because the same exact result can be achieved by packing a book tightly in a box. Problem solved (thumbs u

 

In the 80s I tried this. It was for the most part "ineffective"

[THE_BEYONDER]

If my shirt has wrinkles when it comes out of the wash I doubt anyone here would say that I'm "restoring" my shirt when it's ironed.