Is it time for CGC board marketplace sales to be reported to GPA?

[nearmint]

the methodology of determining whose data to accept seems to be the only sticking point..........

 

And that, of course, would be determined by George. If he's not satisfied, then it won't work.

 

In my opinion, there are just too many sales occurring here on the boards, and some of them for very high quality books, for them to be ignored. And the number is significant. There are certainly more sales occurring here than with several of the dealers already submitting data(Esquirecomics, Investment Collectibles, Vintage Collectibles, Archangels).

[fantastic_four]

The idea that a dealer is instantly trustworthy because comics are his main source of income is ridiculous. We've all encountered unscrupulous dealers who were more concerned about making a buck than they were about their reputation.

 

What's an example of an unscrupulous dealer, who is making their primary income off of comics and has a business license and is therefore accountable to his customers via complaints to the Better Business Bureau, whose sales are untrustworthy and unworthy of being reported to GPA?

[nearmint]

The idea that a dealer is instantly trustworthy because comics are his main source of income is ridiculous. We've all encountered unscrupulous dealers who were more concerned about making a buck than they were about their reputation.

 

What's an example of an unscrupulous dealer, who is making their primary income off of comics and has a business license and is therefore accountable to his customers via complaints to the Better Business Bureau, whose sales are untrustworthy and unworthy of being reported to GPA?

 

Ask some folks posting in this thread and they'll list off most of the dealers advertising in Overstreet. I certainly wouldn't buy from Silveracre, and many on here won't buy from Gus. How many would you like, and are you really telling me you can't think of one?

[fantastic_four]

Alot of sellers offer books below GPA prices sometimes right? Or am I getting that confused with OSPG? in any case, it seems that if GPA uses sales from the market place, and sellers in the marketplace offer items below GPA prices, wouldn't we get into a slippery slope where prices keep on getting lower and lower?

 

Not after I buy your book for below GPA and flip it for a profit.

[AussieRuss]

Jim,

 

I can understand some of your concerns. However, I'm lost as to why you would trust my data less than you would the stuff received from Doug 'Can I pay for those with a company check?' Schmell?

 

I'll put myself forward for whatever verification George requires of me...and I know I'll pass muster.

 

I also know that any deals I'm involved in would, too.

 

As I said earlier...'verified traders only'. It's all in the details, my friend. (thumbs u

 

Same goes for me.

 

I keep hard & soft copies of all Paypal transaction data for each of my CGC books purchased. Especially the Pedigree'd books.

 

Also have the ability to show invoices if they were purchased from a company.

 

I would love to have that data included in GPAnalysis. It would also be good for insurance reasons.

 

Russ...

[fantastic_four]

For what its worth, I will be reporting CGC sales that either occurred on these boards, or were faciliated by these boards (i.e. sales of books which may not have been posted, however inquiries that led to sales which were faciliated via PM communication). I think the communication aspect of the boards shouldn't be overlooked in reporting - an aspect that in my mind provides a more complete picture, especially when compared to the potential for offline deals on sites like eBay to get missed.

 

How are you able to report CGC sales to GPA?

[fantastic_four]

Whenever I buy a book, I e-mail the seller and ask for them to report this book

being sold and what it sold for. Many times the seller hardly ever does,

 

but atleast I try.

 

How do sellers do this type of reporting to GPA?

[fantastic_four]

One thought mentioned earlier was to have a specific thread where sales could be listed. George could extract from that thread, or someone could take on the task of submitting it to him.

 

This doesn't sound sustainable. Who here would do all the list compilation? I think that verified sellers would have to have some way to submit their data straight to GPA, which I'm sure Heritage, Pedigree, and the rest do already.

 

[fantastic_four]

Ask some folks posting in this thread and they'll list off most of the dealers advertising in Overstreet. I certainly wouldn't buy from Silveracre, and many on here won't buy from Gus. How many would you like, and are you really telling me you can't think of one?

 

One who earns their living from it and has a business license, no, I can't think of any off-hand. All of the outright frauds I've discovered have been individuals. I suppose that's the source of my pessimism related to having individual sellers here get their sales reported to GPA.

 

Most of what I know about comics fraud I learned from learning what comic-keys did...and had he not made one single mistake about a decade ago, the odds are he'd be a well-respected member on E-Bay, this forum, and a shoo-in for any verified seller list around here. After he got convicted in the 90s, he seemed to realize you risk a lot by perpetrating a fraud while running a business with an established public face, which is why he now sells mostly privately and through a proxy.

 

I'm not entirely certain what Gus and Silveracre are doing, but whatever it is, do you think it's worth the risk they're taking, and that they'll be able to continue perpetrating their fraud? I'm sure Jason Ewert now wishes he hadn't done what he did. It's harder for me to imagine a company risking their business by staging fraudulent sales than it is an individual who can disappear and re-appear more easily, as a company has more to lose, and more to answer for.

 

I hope I haven't seemed overly-pessimistic in this thread about the idea...the reason I'm continuing to read and post in it is because I WOULD like for it to work, but after seeing all the fraud individuals commit in comics because they have very little to risk, it tapped into the mistrust I carry for individual sellers who lack vested interests in their reputation.

[Aces]

In all seriousness, what's to prevent two good buddies from getting together and cooking up a sale or two just to inflate GPA?

 

They could do that on eBay, and all by themselves.

Here at least they would need a partner in crime.

 

Roy's right. I would trust sales reported here more than anywhere else. We're far more transparent here than eBay or Heritage.

 

(thumbs u

 

Nobody farts here without everyone knowing it.

[Aces]

Jim and Jim. Are you guys nuts?

 

There are likely dozens or 100's of people that bid each other's stuff up every day out there.

 

You can't police everything. I can tell you that this market is more reliable than 90% of what's out there right now.

 

If you have people that pass some sort of "approval" I would trust them more than shill bid auctions and the like.

 

Not only that, you would be able to follow every transaction in the "proposed thread" abnd decide for yourself whether it is credible or not.

 

I think it's a great idea considering this place has likely moved over 1/4 $MIL in books in just the past 6 months.

 

Think about it.

 

At the end of the day this is a message board with abosultely no oversight on sales (and CGC doesn't want the responsibility). If you or anyone wants your sales to "count" then I suggest you spend the money on your business model and become a "player"..because right now all there exists around here are anonymous posters on a Forum.

 

Maybe Bob is right...every collector here is a dealer wannabe but don't want the responsibility it entails...

 

Jim

 

At the end of the day a sale here is far more transparent than Comiclink, Metro, Ebay or any other place you want to name. Most of us know each other (some for years). Those of us who are newbies often know someone we know. Those who are unknown by all will be scrutinized until they are known. In the end all sales and sellers would be listed so I don't see the problem.

 

The only problem I forsee is anonymous buyers who buy via pm. They may not want that info disclosed and then those sales would go unreported.

 

The majority of anonymous sales show up else where on the boards as collectors show off their collections in scans and photos.

 

I paid record price for a *rare* SA Marvel key 3-4 years ago in a *private* sale.

To solidify the sale I had the seller set up a BIN on Ebay and I covered the fees on top of the sale price. It was the only way I could protect my investment at the time...so I do put in the work whenever I can.

 

I have bought so many books here privately at record prices (and none are a secret as I flash everyone of my purchases) that you can understand why I would love to report these sales. Does that make me a bad person?

 

Call me what you want (dealer/collector is irrelevant at this point), the truth is it is a great idea.

 

Maybe you need to be a member of GPA and have an address on file with them and you could send info on your private sales. They could look it over and decide if it's useful information or not and add it on a case by case basis.

[VintageComics]

In all seriousness, what's to prevent two good buddies from getting together and cooking up a sale or two just to inflate GPA?

 

They could do that on eBay, and all by themselves.

Here at least they would need a partner in crime.

 

Roy's right. I would trust sales reported here more than anywhere else. We're far more transparent here than eBay or Heritage.

 

(thumbs u

 

Nobody farts here without everyone knowing it.

 

I smell nothing at this point in time.

 

[awe4one]

But how can you possibly feel that the level of veracity with E-bay sales data (which is almost certainly the preponderance of the data) could ever exceed what you'd get from THIS board??

 

E-Bay is anonymous. the only real check and balance in the e-bay transaction is IF the e-bay fee got paid and even that don't necessarily mean diddly squat.

 

Personally, I'd trust the sales data compiled here much more, particularly if the list of authorized sellers were limited to those with credibility and some measurable sales data. the transparency and Peer pressure of this board would nicely police the data IMHO.

 

the methodology of determining whose data to accept seems to be the only sticking point..........

 

Let me make it clear that I do think the accuracy of information here, now, is probably better than eBay. That's was never a question for me. Ebay on the otherhand has vastly more CGC sales in a day than we see here in a month and maybe over three to six months.

 

Regardless, it is an avenue GPA has chosen to gather their info. Does that make GPA any less valuable? Apparently not since they are used and seen as the authority on CGC sales info by most CGC collectors. You sure as hell don't hear these eBay doubts when sellers are quoting GPA in an attempt to justify their price...

 

And someone quoted the number of a $1/4 Mil in sales here. They do realize that the vast majority of that number, if correct, was raw comics?

 

The number of CGC comics sold here is a miniscule amount when you take in the other avenues GPA get their data from. And the number of sellers of those slabs are many and varied. The benefit vs. the heartache of using message board sales seems like a no-brainer to me. To not open that potential can of worms makes sense not only from a business standpoint but also from a database integrity standpoint as well.

 

Jim

[CAP Freak]

I George decides to go through with this, and I hope he does, I would be happy to go through whatever verification test to have the privilege of submitting my sales to GPA. I would really appreciate more GA Timely in mid-grade data because most of the Timely's I will purchase will be slabbed.

 

My 2 cents.

-Connor

[DrWatson]

[comicwiz]

For what its worth, I will be reporting CGC sales that either occurred on these boards, or were faciliated by these boards (i.e. sales of books which may not have been posted, however inquiries that led to sales which were faciliated via PM communication). I think the communication aspect of the boards shouldn't be overlooked in reporting - an aspect that in my mind provides a more complete picture, especially when compared to the potential for offline deals on sites like eBay to get missed.

 

How are you able to report CGC sales to GPA?

 

I have emailed sales data from my site to George in the past, and that is how I would do it for any sales made here.

[VintageComics]

The 1/4 $MIL quote was mine and it was CGC graded books.

 

Jim, I alone have must have bought/sold 75-100 CGC books since spring April. All of my transactions were done with reliable, established board members with maybe the exception of a couple of newbies.

 

Detective27kid sold his run of Detective Comics #28-37..iirc all were graded.

 

Then there is his thread that is running now. And Filter81's selling of his personal collection. All very tough to find books.

 

That does not even take into account any other sellers.

 

Then you have all the signature series sales, the copper and bronze lovers...there must be a 100 books a week changing hands here. Danny sold how many X-men 9.8 copper books in 1 week?

 

Then you have the lovers of obscure GA books which have maybe 1 -2 copies existing on the census. Well these books NEVER change hands so if a sale here happens, it's like a Unicorn sighting...everybody wants a picture of it!

 

And there are more. Way more.

 

Truth of the matter is that this Marketplace is a strong and viable force for those who take part in it and like any other market it should contribute to GPA.

 

GPA without contributors is not going to be accurate. Data sharing is a two way street.

 

The question is, if one dealer can approach George to offer sales data, why can we not?

 

Like Aces says...you can't fart here without someone noticing it.

 

R.

 

 

 

[Murph]

what makes this forum's sales any more valid or reportable then any other comic book message board's out there?

[VintageComics]

what makes this forum's sales any more valid or reportable then any other comic book message board's out there?

 

Well for one, it CGC's site and GPA records CGC sales.

Another is the relationship that many of us have with each other and that many of us have with George.

A third is that many of the board members here ARE long time dealers. Some of the biggest dealers, collectors and enthusiasts hang out on this site...exclusively.

 

The majority of transactions that happen here are between people that know each other, have known of each other or have met each other in person.

 

Now I reverse the question:

 

Why would you trust Heritage sales over our marketplace?

Why would you trust Ebay sales over our marketplace?

 

 

How many of those people out there are known personally by you?

 

R.

 

 

[sterlingcomics]

Is it time for marketplace sales to be reported to GPA?

 

I'd like most transactions be reported to GPA...however the technical and ownership/verification implications of doing so given the technology in place to support board transactions would be a nightmare. So, today the answer is no.

 

I know all of the IT folks here are dreaming about a comic transaction network that could accomplish this but to be honest, you can lead a camel to water but you won't be able to make him drink.