I received a PM from Tracey Heft today.....

[fantastic_four]

It is late and I guess I am tired, but I am confused by what you mentioned about resto detection being a closely held trade secret. Simply by buying a few restored comics you can learn for for yourself how to detect almost any form of restoration. Obviously there is more to it then that, but basic detecting skills are only as good as how much time and effort one puts into learning about it.

 

I've bought several CGC books that they judged as having slight or minor restoration purely for the exercise of finding the restoration on them. Some I can find it on, some I can't. I've returned to one of those several times over the years. It's a Spidey 33 with slight professional color touch. Why can't I find it? What am I doing wrong? I don't know. My best guess is that it's in one of the black areas on the book and that I'm not sure how to find black-on-black color touch. Learning by doing is important, but it's inferior to learning from the experience of others.

 

Matt ,Richie and Susan have all held seminars recently about detecting resto that were open to the public. Was Tracey talking about detecting unkown forms of resto that all but a few are privy to? Or the process themselves not being known to a wider audience?

 

The slant about some people considering it a trade secret was my opinion, not Tracey's, so it was me talking about it. And I was talking about the process being available to a wider audience by publishing it, putting it to paper, preferrably in the Overstreet Grading Guide, or if you prefer, some place on the web. Just some place we're all likely to find it.

 

I talked to Matt about this, but he ended up not writing about it in the OGG second revision, he wrote that excellent article proposing a scale to measure the extent of restoration on a book. I vaguely recall that he used to be offering his own paid restoration detection service and seemed uninterested in writing about it. I'm glad to hear he's more recently held seminars on it. I tried to email Susan but never got a response. However, it is my presumption that she also would like restoration detection to be widely disseminated, as she's the one who wrote the most detailed guide to it I've personally seen written, the ones that's in both the first and second editions of the OGG. However, it's fairly introductory, and isn't nearly enough to practically do it--although it most certainly is a FANTASTIC introduction to it that's worth re-reading multiple times. Who's Richie?

[fantastic_four]

I've been thinking about buying Tracey's e-book about resto detecting he offers on his site.

 

And maybe the reason why Tracey doesn't post that much is this, which he wrote in the Summer of 2006.

 

That's most likely true. Glad to hear he wrote this, I'll have to check it out. Has anyone reviewed it in the forums?

[VintageComics]

RIch is Richard Evans of Bedrock City. I gave Rich a call one day and suggested he and Matt do a resto detection seminar in Chicago. They ended up putting it together and doing one in SD and one in Chicago this year. They were both free. I attended the Chicago one, and although there is never enough time (special thanks to Billy Parker for the fantastic derailment discussing ) it was extremely informative as most forumite who attended will likely agree.

 

R.

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

I learned a lot at the one in Chicago. Didnt Richie say he was gonna do one in Baltimore as well??

[FFB]

Ladies and Gentlemen, lets end this consversation quickly...your comics are pressed and heated to almost 200 F when the are printed brand new before they are put on the newstands.

 

As an aside, I have talked to Trace about restoring one of my GA books and he is a very knowledgeable person. From what I understand he is Museum trained in the conservation of paper.

 

It's be nice if he chimes in but if he doesn't I'd totally understand why.

 

R.

 

 

It's known that comics are best preserved by being stored in cool conditions so surely it follows that that the application of heat and moisture to a book in the pressing process could potentially have a long term detrimental effect. I'm just curious to hear the opinion of a paper expert on it, as pressing has become too "political" to trust for an unbiased view on the bards.

 

No, that does not follow. Pressing does not always involve the use of heat. When it does, the amount of heat used in pressing is mild and the book is not exposed to it for very long. It isn't like a ticking time bomb where you press a book with heat, the book looks fine when you're done, and then you store it properly for 20 years and one day you pull out the book and it's a brittle mass of brown paper.

 

Instead of speculating about this parade of horribles that you think will happen because of pressing, why not learn about it first and then offer an opinion based on actual knowledge? Ignorant fear mongering adds no value to the discussion.

[FFB]

I've been thinking about buying Tracey's e-book about resto detecting he offers on his site.

 

And maybe the reason why Tracey doesn't post that much is this, which he wrote in the Summer of 2006.

 

That's most likely true. Glad to hear he wrote this, I'll have to check it out. Has anyone reviewed it in the forums?

 

I bought it when it came out. It was a great idea, but flawed in the execution. It's really only for people who know nothing about detecting restoration, and even then, the digital photos are so grainy and hard to see that they are essentially worthless. I read through the ebook once and then never looked at it again.

 

Like I said, it's a great idea, but the pictures need to be clear, high-res digital photos, and the detection discussion needs to be fleshed out a lot. In its first iteration, the book was not worth the money.

[FFB]

I did speak to Trace about long term storage and he did say that constant temperature and humidty change (back and forth) where the worst things. From what I gathered storing books in one type of environment (either warm or humid) was likely not as bad as alternating between two extremes of hot and cold or dry and humid. It's the constant alternating between the two that was not good for the paper.

 

 

So, keeping it in a nice, cool, dark room for 25 years...and then suddenly burning it almost to a crisp whilst pounding the living sh!te out of it would not be the best thing to do?

 

 

Why do you say stuff like this when you know full well that what you're saying is not how books are pressed? It's really frustrating. I know you hate pressing, but that doesn't justify misrepresenting the process.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I did speak to Trace about long term storage and he did say that constant temperature and humidty change (back and forth) where the worst things. From what I gathered storing books in one type of environment (either warm or humid) was likely not as bad as alternating between two extremes of hot and cold or dry and humid. It's the constant alternating between the two that was not good for the paper.

 

 

So, keeping it in a nice, cool, dark room for 25 years...and then suddenly burning it almost to a crisp whilst pounding the living sh!te out of it would not be the best thing to do?

 

 

Why do you say stuff like this when you know full well that what you're saying is not how books are pressed? It's really frustrating. I know you hate pressing, but that doesn't justify misrepresenting the process.

 

I said it for a laugh...a joke...a jape...a good giggle.

 

Remember 'em?

[chromium]

I've been thinking about buying Tracey's e-book about resto detecting he offers on his site.

 

And maybe the reason why Tracey doesn't post that much is this, which he wrote in the Summer of 2006.

 

That's most likely true. Glad to hear he wrote this, I'll have to check it out. Has anyone reviewed it in the forums?

 

I bought it when it came out. It was a great idea, but flawed in the execution. It's really only for people who know nothing about detecting restoration, and even then, the digital photos are so grainy and hard to see that they are essentially worthless. I read through the ebook once and then never looked at it again.

 

Like I said, it's a great idea, but the pictures need to be clear, high-res digital photos, and the detection discussion needs to be fleshed out a lot. In its first iteration, the book was not worth the money.

 

 

Thanks for this !

Guess that's another $20.00 I won't be spending...can't believe the pics aren't HUGE and high res when it's basically a PDF file...

[Ze-man]

They really are god awful, like bad ebay photos. As Scott said it could be redone to be much more informative it just hasn't yet. Especially since the whole point was meant as a visual reference to use in an effort to educate oneself about detecting restoration.

 

 

 

 

[Ze-man]

Ladies and Gentlemen, lets end this consversation quickly...your comics are pressed and heated to almost 200 F when the are printed brand new before they are put on the newstands.

 

As an aside, I have talked to Trace about restoring one of my GA books and he is a very knowledgeable person. From what I understand he is Museum trained in the conservation of paper.

 

It's be nice if he chimes in but if he doesn't I'd totally understand why.

 

R.

 

 

It's known that comics are best preserved by being stored in cool conditions so surely it follows that that the application of heat and moisture to a book in the pressing process could potentially have a long term detrimental effect. I'm just curious to hear the opinion of a paper expert on it, as pressing has become too "political" to trust for an unbiased view on the bards.

 

No, that does not follow. Pressing does not always involve the use of heat. When it does, the amount of heat used in pressing is mild and the book is not exposed to it for very long. It isn't like a ticking time bomb where you press a book with heat, the book looks fine when you're done, and then you store it properly for 20 years and one day you pull out the book and it's a brittle mass of brown paper.

 

Instead of speculating about this parade of horribles that you think will happen because of pressing, why not learn about it first and then offer an opinion based on actual knowledge? Ignorant fear mongering adds no value to the discussion.

 

IIRC, didn't Mark Wilson(the non loopy Wilson brother) send out examples of pressed books to an independent labratory to be tested for tensil strength, acidic levels and thickness and there was no evidence to suggest the paper was less stable, brittle or smushed when compared to the non pressed counterpart.

 

Not to say it is finite proof one way or the other and as Scott mentioned I too would welcome anyone to conduct similar experiemts to add to Wilsons findings.

 

Mainly, testing a 1/3 of typical SA comic, another 1/3 that was properly pressed and the last portion made into an overcooked pancake.

[DiceX]

I'm in the process of inventing a pressing detector. Once I'm done, everyone's funnybooks will be worthless. It will also have an attachment for detecting both intent and deceit. I plan to buy everyone's worthless comics with the proceeds of my invention.

 

If I can just find another market that can put it to use. Comics and elections with hanging chads are my only means of income.

 

 

[TheShadowKnows]

I'm sure there's probably a reason that he has only posted twice.....Not meant in a bad way, by no means...just some people might prefer to remain anonymous and just read what is happening within the community he has chosen to work in..

 

Or maybe this is the reason:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=393639&Searchpage=6&Main=22110&Words=sborock&topic=0&Search=true#Post393639

Long time, no see.

 

Just the facts, ma'am.

Guess some people just like adding to the number.Its a badge of honor you know.

[TheShadowKnows]

I'm sure there's probably a reason that he has only posted twice.....Not meant in a bad way, by no means...just some people might prefer to remain anonymous and just read what is happening within the community he has chosen to work in..

 

Or maybe this is the reason:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=393639&Searchpage=6&Main=22110&Words=sborock&topic=0&Search=true#Post393639

Long time, no see.

 

Just the facts, ma'am.

Guess some people just like adding to the number.Its a badge of honor you know.

Really im just waiting for the Dumm_Azz user id

[gaz973]

Ladies and Gentlemen, lets end this consversation quickly...your comics are pressed and heated to almost 200 F when the are printed brand new before they are put on the newstands.

 

As an aside, I have talked to Trace about restoring one of my GA books and he is a very knowledgeable person. From what I understand he is Museum trained in the conservation of paper.

 

It's be nice if he chimes in but if he doesn't I'd totally understand why.

 

R.

 

 

It's known that comics are best preserved by being stored in cool conditions so surely it follows that that the application of heat and moisture to a book in the pressing process could potentially have a long term detrimental effect. I'm just curious to hear the opinion of a paper expert on it, as pressing has become too "political" to trust for an unbiased view on the bards.

 

No, that does not follow. Pressing does not always involve the use of heat. When it does, the amount of heat used in pressing is mild and the book is not exposed to it for very long. It isn't like a ticking time bomb where you press a book with heat, the book looks fine when you're done, and then you store it properly for 20 years and one day you pull out the book and it's a brittle mass of brown paper.

 

Instead of speculating about this parade of horribles that you think will happen because of pressing, why not learn about it first and then offer an opinion based on actual knowledge? Ignorant fear mongering adds no value to the discussion.

 

Now wait a second. I posted on the first page hoping to ask an expert about the subject as you've suggested. After being dismissed out of hand by Roy, I had to explain my way of thinking to defend my question. How the hell does that translate into "ignorant fear mongering"? How the hell do I learn about the subject when I am apparently not allowed to ask a question about it?

Why do you even feel the need to grossly exaggerate what I said. "ticking time bombs"?, "brittle mass of brown paper"?, where did you come up with this bollocks?

[VintageComics]

Gary, FFB has done a pretty good job of educating himself on the subject so he's probably a little trigger happy whenever the subject comes up because a lot of people exaggerate without knowing what they are talking about.

 

I was simply trying to prevent this from turning into another pressing thread but maybe should have kept my mouth shut instead.

 

 

R.

 

 

 

[gaz973]

Gary, FFB has done a pretty good job of educating himself on the subject so he's probably a little trigger happy whenever the subject comes up because a lot of people exaggerate without knowing what they are talking about.

 

I was simply trying to prevent this from turning into another pressing thread but maybe should have kept my mouth shut instead.

 

 

R.

 

 

 

Roy, sorry if that was a bit of a rant but I was truly iritated by FFB's post.

 

I can see why it's a good idea to stop every thread becoming about pressing but it was an honest question that I wanted an experts opinion on. It's probably a moot point anyway as there are probably not going to be any answers forthcoming from Tracey Heft. I would PM the question to him but I wouldn't want to hassle him.

[VintageComics]

Gary, FFB has done a pretty good job of educating himself on the subject so he's probably a little trigger happy whenever the subject comes up because a lot of people exaggerate without knowing what they are talking about.

 

I was simply trying to prevent this from turning into another pressing thread but maybe should have kept my mouth shut instead.

 

 

R.

 

 

 

Roy, sorry if that was a bit of a rant but I was truly iritated by FFB's post.

 

I can see why it's a good idea to stop every thread becoming about pressing but it was an honest question that I wanted an experts opinion on. It's probably a moot point anyway as there are probably not going to be any answers forthcoming from Tracey Heft. I would PM the question to him but I wouldn't want to hassle him.

 

That's ok. I've gone off the handle far worse.

 

FFB can sound a bit arrogant just like I can or anyone else. I've gotten on his case in the past as well but we all have our flaws and one axe to grind or another so I try to not get emotionally involved and just learn.

 

Cheers.

 

(thumbs u

[gaz973]

(thumbs u

[DrWatson]

I will have you know that I am never arrogant. I'm just full of sh*t.