I'm not a liar...so trust me...the world is flat

[Phantom-migration]

Superman #1 Auction

 

"This auction is for a low grade, UNRESTORED copy of Superman #1!!!!"

 

"The original cover has been lost, and has now been replaced with a copy. Similarly, a couple interior pages have also been replaced or have a piece missing. Almost all of the original pages are there."

 

"Ultimately, I decided against restoring this book because I felt it would be more unique if left completely unrestored."

 

[OldSchoolTerry]

What else could possibly say about this, other than....

[whetteon]

My complaint is when I see "low reserve" I think $200 or less. When it hits the $1,600 mark and the reserve is still not met, I wonder how my definition and their definition differ by $1,400 and more.

[dadaist]

"This auction is for a low grade, UNRESTORED copy of Superman #1!!!!"

 

I guess that's what he calls a grafted, hand-drawn cover on an otherwise coverless copy?

 

I suppose for a resto expert, the inner-guts are well worth the current price. That's the only way I can rationalize anyone spending more that much for this copy.

[Filter81]

I don't get it. Why do so many people on this board seem to have problems with my auctions? Is there something controversial about my listing style? I doubt its a problem with my prices seeing as how I start every auction with a starting bid of 1 cent. Am I being singled out here? Or do most eBay sellers find themselves being trashed on one of these boards at one point or another?

 

Phantom, I don't understand what your problem is with this auction. This is an unrestored, incomplete, coverless copy. Its NOT restored. The cover has not been grafted, the spine has not been replaced, it is just a beat up old comic book with a copy of a front cover to give the book a little more eye appeal. Are you implying in your post that this book would be considered restored? Because if so, you are wrong.

 

As for not having the reserve on the book set at $200, I apologize that you disagree with my reserve. The last coverless copy sold on eBay went for around $2,500 I believe and I didn't really have an interest in taking appoximately 8% of what this book sold for the last time it was available (even if my copy is not quite as nice as the other coverless one was) Keeping in mind that a book in Poor condition is worth around 1% of the NM price, the guide value on this book (or the closest you can really come to establishing a guide value for a book in this condition) would be approximately $2,400. (which sounds about right since thats right around what the last coverless copy sold for) I doubt you could even find someone willing to sell the centerfold of this book for $200.. I don't really see the point to putting up a reserve if the reserve is set so low that it is met less than 30 minutes into the auction... I really like this book (flaws and all) and wouldn't be selling it if I didn't need to raise some money. If I really felt all I could get for the book would be $200, I would've listed my Spider-man #2 G/VG instead.. If my reserve is too high, it simply won't get met. Simple as that.. no harm done. At this point I'd probably use the second chance offer option to offer the book to the high bidder.

 

Considering there is an extensively restored VG+ Superman 1 up on eBay at the moment for $9,000.. all it would take would be for somebody to find the parts this book is missing, send it in to be restored, and they would realize a nice profit. Other than that, maybe someone out there just wants an affordable Superman 1 in his collection. At that point I guess the book really just becomes worth whatever somebody is willing to pay. In my opinion listing the book on eBay with a starting bid of 1 cent and a reserve in case I don't like where the bidding ends up seems like a pretty good indicator of what this book is worth to people. (Yeah, it would be even better if listed with no reserve, but I don't want to sell the book if I don't get a fair price for it)

 

Sorry if maybe I just need thicker skin about all this, but I collect for fun and its annoying to see my auctions attacked with comments that I believe are grossly incorrect. If however, I have made a mistake in one of my auctions all it would take would be a simple politely worded E-mail informing me of my error and I'd be happy to fix it. I'm not out to "get" anybody.. if I ever do make a mistake just bring it to my attention. No need to attack my auction on a message board..

[FlyingDonut]

I always rule-of-thumb coverless copies of books at a quarter of the good price, so the $2K price isn't that far off.

[aardvark88]

Incomplete copies normally sell for less than 25% of good Ostreet. The ad description is a little vague as to how many pgs. or wraps it may be missing.

[mrwoogieman]

At first glance, this comic book actually appears to be in fairly nice shape! (It would probably even look like a Fine+ if not for the right edge!) Unfortunately, as you begin to examine the comic you will see it is actually in very bad shape Probably the biggest problem with the comic is that the cover is not an original. The original cover has been lost, and has now been replaced with a copy. Similarly, a couple interior pages have also been replaced or have a piece missing. Almost all of the original pages are there, but even those pages aren't in great shape (Especially around the edges). The good news is though, that NONE of the pages are Brittle, so this comic still has a long, healthy life ahead!!

 

____________

 

Reading the above text makes it appear that you are selling a retored book. First, you make reference to what the book looks like 'at first glance'. Well, no one looking at your auction would be able to agree with your statement since you have chosen not to let us see what it looks like at first glance. You're refering to a photocopy cover as being in Fine+ condition. WHO CARES WHAT CONDITION YOUR FAKE COVER IS IN?

 

Next, you say 'as you begin to examine the comic you will see...' Who is seeing any of this? No one looking at your auction because you have not provided any photos of the actual incomplete book you are selling. WHY NO PICTURES OF WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY SELLING?

 

Next, you say 'a couple interior pages have also been replaced or have a piece missing...' What pages, how many, where in the book? To me, you are deliberately avoiding giving a detailed description of what you are actually selling. Most would want to know HOW MANY pages are missing, HOW MANY pages have pieces missing, WHERE the missing pages are located. My presumption is that you don't have the first wrap or the centerfold, because if you had those you would have mentioned it as a selling point. WHY NOT TELL BIDDERS WHAT THEY ARE BIDDING ON?

 

Next, you say 'but even those pages aren't in great shape (Especially around the edges)'... Do tell, because you certainly haven't provided a picture of ANY of the interior pages for a bidder to see. More relevant information is omitted (again, deliberately in my view) such as whether the spines on the wraps are intact or not, whether the edges have been chewed or not, what the page quality is (other than you saying they aren't brittle). Are the remaining interior pages brown, tan, something else?

 

Furthermore, what stories are present, and how many pages of each story are present? Does the book even have its staples? More helpful information omitted (deliberately, in my opinion).

 

In summary, before you come on here crying about how someone on this board is picking on your auction, do yourself a favor and post an auction that's not a misleading hallucination and perhaps you'll garner more respect. It's clear to me you're targeting the gullible.

 

Of course you aren't claiming this is a restored book; it's not even a book at all; it's just bits of aging newsprint with (perhaps) some sequential artwork, and a fake cover and some fake pages. Poor, misunderstood you.

 

Please return when you've added some integrity and more than a kernel of truthfulness to your listings.

 

[whetteon]

Apparently you mistakened this forum for a group of comic book noobies that never seen or own one personally but heard they are good investments. I believe mrwoogieman has all the details in his post on why we are dubious. Plus, the link from these boards to your auction only allows more people to view it and perhaps a few to bid on it. So feel free to flame free advertisment. Now if you'll excuse me I would rather watch the drama then participate.

[Filter81]

Woogieman,

 

First page missing, last page missing (that would be the first wrap correct?) Centerfold present but missing a coupon (or a small ad?) I noticed one other page missing about 8 pages into the book. I would call the pages light tan. Nothing being kept secret. This book is about as bad as it gets. Its missing a cover, missing pages, the pages in tact are missing pieces, and are in bad shape.. I just assumed after reading that nobody would really care if the pages were tan vs light tan... The book is an incomplete, Poor condition Superman 1... It can't get worse than Poor so I assumed details like page color wouldn't really matter. Do you have any other questions about the book you'd like answered? I'd be happy to answer them. With your "everybody is out to screw everybody else,assume the worst about everybody" attitude its no wonder a few people on this board seem to be in a perpetual bad mood!

 

I am a very honest person and there is nothing wrong with my integrity.. For you to accuse me of being dishonest just because I didn't automatically know to include the information that YOU personally would be looking for.. doesn't make much sense to me.

 

But to be honest, yes, sometimes I am a little vague with my descriptions because I don't want to make a mistake be wrong about anything. I can only imagine if you were the winning bidder and it turns out its page 10 thats missing not page 8... Man.. I can only imagine the accusations you would make about my integrity then...... So when in doubt I try to be a bit vague, and if that means you, the bidder, want to assume the worst about the book and therefore bid less or not bid, thats fine with me. I'd rather have less people bid than have an angry bidder at the end because he feels my book was off by half a grade, or because I missed a 1/2 inch page tear on page 22....

 

Anyway, sorry you thought I was "crying".. most of the people on this board are pretty nice. But there are a few people that seem like they are going to give themselves strokes over this stuff before they reach 40. Sorry, but I still think personal attacks on someone you don't know without even trying to ask a question or do your research first is unnecessary.

 

[BachelorOfComix]

Can you comment on your Hulk 4 auction?

[mrwoogieman]

Woogieman,

 

First page missing, last page missing (that would be the first wrap correct?) Centerfold present but missing a coupon (or a small ad?) I noticed one other page missing about 8 pages into the book. I would call the pages light tan. Nothing being kept secret. This book is about as bad as it gets. Its missing a cover, missing pages, the pages in tact are missing pieces, and are in bad shape.. I just assumed after reading that nobody would really care if the pages were tan vs light tan... The book is an incomplete, Poor condition Superman 1... It can't get worse than Poor so I assumed details like page color wouldn't really matter. Do you have any other questions about the book you'd like answered? I'd be happy to answer them. With your "everybody is out to screw everybody else,assume the worst about everybody" attitude its no wonder a few people on this board seem to be in a perpetual bad mood!

 

I am a very honest person and there is nothing wrong with my integrity.. For you to accuse me of being dishonest just because I didn't automatically know to include the information that YOU personally would be looking for.. doesn't make much sense to me.

 

But to be honest, yes, sometimes I am a little vague with my descriptions because I don't want to make a mistake be wrong about anything. I can only imagine if you were the winning bidder and it turns out its page 10 thats missing not page 8... Man.. I can only imagine the accusations you would make about my integrity then...... So when in doubt I try to be a bit vague, and if that means you, the bidder, want to assume the worst about the book and therefore bid less or not bid, thats fine with me. I'd rather have less people bid than have an angry bidder at the end because he feels my book was off by half a grade, or because I missed a 1/2 inch page tear on page 22....

 

Anyway, sorry you thought I was "crying".. most of the people on this board are pretty nice. But there are a few people that seem like they are going to give themselves strokes over this stuff before they reach 40. Sorry, but I still think personal attacks on someone you don't know without even trying to ask a question or do your research first is unnecessary.

 

 

Yes, I'm sure you didn't realize potential bidders would want to know what they were actually getting. What a peculiar concept I've interjected into your world. And, while YOU may be honest, this particular auction is NOT, for all of the reasons listed in my previous post.

 

And, yes you were crying a bit in your previous post about how you are being discredited unfairly on these boards. And, yes I did impugn your integrity based upon this auction, but I believe it was a fair critique based upon your dissembling in the auction description.

 

But, having said all that, it's really LordRahl's thread that you need to address re: your Hulk 4 auction and not my admonishments of your lack of information on the Superman 1.

[mrwoogieman]

here, for your convenience.......

 

 

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=320978&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

 

 

[Filter81]

Sure, what do you want me to comment on? I believe I bought the book back in September. The book was sold to me as unrestored, but the seller did tell me that the staples have been replaced. I've never seen a book come back from the CGC with a purple label for having its staples replaced, so I would say if CGCed it would get either a blue or a green label. As for the condition its got a couple of tiny spine stresses and the left edge is very mildly tanning. Like I said in the auction I think I bought this as a VF/NM but I could be wrong. I purchased 3 high grade copies of this issue this year (a VF- a VF and a VF/NM) I think this was the VF/NM (it looks like the nicest of the 3) but if not its at least a VF. I have the book graded at somewhere around a VF+ but everyone's opinion will be slightly different I'm sure, so when in doubt listen to the scan not me, because it accurately reflects the book's condition. The corners are square and the book is well centered. If you'd like, I can try to track down the item description from the person I bought the book from in case you'd like to see a second seller's take on the book, assuming its still available on eBay.

 

Anything in particular you want to know about the book?

 

 

Can you comment on your Hulk 4 auction?

 

[towards2112]

[Filter81]

You've got to be kidding me, there's two threads on these boards badmouthing me? Geez.. apparantly you guys missed my third auction. I'll look for the original item description on that Hulk 4 and see what I can find out about it.

 

As for your comment about me not knowing people want to find out about what they are getting.. I mention in my auction that people with any questions about my auction should contact me. How am I being dishonest?! If someone wants to know something that I did not include, all they have to do is ask and I answer!!! When you buy a book at a show or a store, you get to look through it before deciding whether or not you want it. On the internet all you get is a picture and description.. I'm encouraging people who have questions to E-mail me or call me so I can walk through the book with them.. I don't see the problem.

[Filter81]

ok, here is the original auction description for the Hulk #4 I am selling. I found it still on eBay.

 

"Welcome to my auction. This lot is for the Incredible Hulk #4. VF condition. Really nice looking high grade book. Sharp corners, nice color and retains most of its original gloss. Some minor spine stress keeps it out of higher grades. This book did have its staples replaced, which is allowable in VF grade according to the Overstreet Grading Guide. There is no rust migration on the paper from the old staples. I've been collecting comics for 15+ years. I grade strictly but then again when do you see someone say they grade loosely. Check my feedback, you'll see that most people are very happy with my grading. I like to provide you with large scans so you can judge for yourself though since grading criteria do vary from person to person. I'd be happy to email you more scans and answer any questions you may have. I will be listing fairly solid runs of JIM and TOS over the next few weeks so check out my other auctions. Thanks for looking and good luck bidding!"

 

The seller says "This book did have its staples replaced, which is allowable in VF grade according to Overstreet Grading Guide". There is NO mention of receiving a qualified or restored grade and to me the seller is implying (if not directly stating) that this book would receive a blue label. While I have never seen a book come back with a purple label for having its staples replaced, I have seen a book come back with a green label for having its staples cleaned, so I mention the possibility of this book receiving a qualified label.

 

Apparantly I did make a mistake about the grade the seller had given this book (he called it a VF not a VF/NM) so I will be adding that into my auction description in a little bit.

 

This seller makes no mention of a green or purple label.. I do.. yet his auction is good and mine is not? I still don't get it.. Has anyone here ever seen a label come back purple for having staples replaced?

 

 

[mrwoogieman]

You've got to be kidding me, there's two threads on these boards badmouthing me? Geez.. apparantly you guys missed my third auction. I'll look for the original item description on that Hulk 4 and see what I can find out about it.

 

As for your comment about me not knowing people want to find out about what they are getting.. I mention in my auction that people with any questions about my auction should contact me. How am I being dishonest?! If someone wants to know something that I did not include, all they have to do is ask and I answer!!! When you buy a book at a show or a store, you get to look through it before deciding whether or not you want it. On the internet all you get is a picture and description.. I'm encouraging people who have questions to E-mail me or call me so I can walk through the book with them.. I don't see the problem.

 

So, rather than tell potential bidders exactly what they are getting up front in the auction description, you choose to tell them only some of the story, and you make yourself available to fill them in on the whole story if they really want to know. Oh, I get it now. Trivial details such as page count/page quality/structural integrity of the book are unnecessary verbiage cluttering your auction description. Makes sense to me........

[LordRahl]

The problem with the Hulk auction isn't with the replaced staples. The problem is that you say you bought it as a VF/NM which is a pretty significant difference from a VF, which is what you really bought it as. Sure everyone can have a different opinion about grades but you don't even state your opinion, you completely avoid taking responsibility for the grade by saying I bought it as a VF/NM and you judge the grade. Even with a fairly large scan like that someone will not be able to tell the difference between a VF and a VF/NM until they have the book in hand(assuming they can grade). Now if you had said "I bought it as a VF but I think it's a VF/NM" then that would have been a different story but you didn't. You also say that "it wouldn't get a restored grade" which is not correct, I've seen replaced staples get either restored or qualified grades, I'm not sure how CGC decides which and what they base it on. Yes at least you said it had replaced staples, but at least in my opinion you should have left it at that without outright telling people it would not get a restored label.

[Filter81]

you're absolutely right about the grade. I thought I had bought it as a VF/NM but clearly I was wrong and the item description has been edited. My mistake and now its been fixed.