Pedigree grading discussion

[nearmint]

However, I have always found CGC grading with ANY golden age book, completely off and up ticked by at least a full grade, or so. Yes, perhaps more so with Church copies.

I've got a few slabbed GA books of 9.4 and higher grade which I think compare very favorably with slabbed SAs and BAs of equal grade. People who know me well know how fanatical I am about grading at the high-end level, so this is not a statement that I make lightly. I do believe, however, that CGC is more lenient on manufacturing defects in GA books than they would be on books from later eras.

 

Perhaps people who believe there is a GA bump are commenting more on the fact that most GA books (even Church and Reilly) aren't as "fresh" looking as a typical SA and BA book of equal grade, and therefore in their minds the GA book is noticeably dingier than the SA/BA book when held alongside each other? But CGC generally doesn't factor in freshness into their grades, only structural grade. Also, and I would defer on this to collectors who are much more knowledgeable about GA than me, weren't GA books generally printed with much less glossiness than SA books? I can point to numerous SA Marvel and DC books, particularly Marvels that have a lot of dark blue or red in the cover, where the glossiness and eye appeal is off the charts, even where the structural grade may not be that fantastic. Were many/any GA books printed with the same ink composition?

 

 

In my opinion, a raw church GA book would rival any SA or BA book when it comes to freshness and gloss. The same could be said for a few other GA pedigrees, and even a collection as small as Charles Strong's Nedors.

[tth2]

In my opinion, a raw church GA book would rival any SA or BA book when it comes to freshness and gloss. The same could be said for a few other GA pedigrees, and even a collection as small as Charles Strong's Nedors.

Well, having accumulated a few MHs now, I'm not sure I could say this. Even my Ibis #3 and one of my Lone Rangers, which are exceptional and almost freakish in their freshness, look less new than the various Western Penn, Curator and PC SAs that I've owned. Granted, I'm comparing against 3 SA pedigrees noted for their extremely good preservation and incredible gloss retention.

 

But, I don't know if this is simply because the ink that was used in GA books was less reflective than that used in SA books, or whether it's because that additional 20 years of age really does make that much of a difference, even when that additional 20 years was spent in Edgar's magical basement.

[adamstrange]

In my opinion, a raw church GA book would rival any SA or BA book when it comes to freshness and gloss. The same could be said for a few other GA pedigrees, and even a collection as small as Charles Strong's Nedors.

Well, having accumulated a few MHs now, I'm not sure I could say this. Even my Ibis #3 and one of my Lone Rangers, which are exceptional and almost freakish in their freshness, look less new than the various Western Penn, Curator and PC SAs that I've owned. Granted, I'm comparing against 3 SA pedigrees noted for their extremely good preservation and incredible gloss retention.

 

But, I don't know if this is simply because the ink that was used in GA books was less reflective than that used in SA books, or whether it's because that additional 20 years of age really does make that much of a difference, even when that additional 20 years was spent in Edgar's magical basement.

 

Hard to respond. There are definitely quite a wide variety of inks/papers used on GA books compared to SA DC/Marvels. Toss in variable post-Church storage and it's quite possible for the pedigrees you mention to have some copies appear nicer. In the case of Ibis, I believe the 1 has glossy paper while the 3 has a matte finish and will therefore not compare quite as well. Certain Atomic Age books can have really lousy paper (e.g. Superior, Charlton, Fox) and those might not look so good in comparison. Some of the Dells you've been buying, however, probably have incredibly deep gloss well beyond what DC/Marvel did on issues printed after 1952. To be confident in the comparison it is really necessary to compare raw books to raw books so if you want to know for certain you need to get cracking, so to speak.

[G.A.tor]

I guess it all goes back to the age old grading question...do you compare apples to apples, or apples to oranges (hopefully, I don't need to elaborate)

[nochips]

Mile Highs are notoriously overgraded. When selling MHs to me, please be sure to price them as if 2 levels were deducted from the label. Thank you.

 

It should be 3 times to really be fair and balanced pricing....

[tth2]

In the case of Ibis, I believe the 1 has glossy paper while the 3 has a matte finish and will therefore not compare quite as well.

The MH Ibis 3 looks better than the MH Ibis 1, in terms of overall eye appeal. I have not looked at them outside of the slab, however.

 

Some of the Dells you've been buying, however, probably have incredibly deep gloss well beyond what DC/Marvel did on issues printed after 1952. To be confident in the comparison it is really necessary to compare raw books to raw books so if you want to know for certain you need to get cracking, so to speak.

I know what you mean, and the Dell Ducks and Lone Rangers that I've owned do seem to be glossier than other GA books that I've seen, but I think they still don't compare to the glossiness of SA Marvels and DCs that I've seen. I did own a few NM Ducks in raw form before I slabbed them, and FC 282 (Pixilated Parrot) had really impressive colors with its orange cover, but still doesn't compare in my opinion to something like the Western Penn Daredevil #2 that I also owned raw, which positively glowed. Similarly, I've not owned any raw MH Lone Rangers, but I do own some raw MH Tontos (Dell), and to be honest they support my contention that GAs (even MHs) seem to be a bit dingier.

[tth2]

Mile Highs are notoriously overgraded. When selling MHs to me, please be sure to price them as if 2 levels were deducted from the label. Thank you.

 

It should be 3 times to really be fair and balanced pricing....

[adamstrange]

In the case of Ibis, I believe the 1 has glossy paper while the 3 has a matte finish and will therefore not compare quite as well.

The MH Ibis 3 looks better than the MH Ibis 1, in terms of overall eye appeal. I have not looked at them outside of the slab, however.

 

Some of the Dells you've been buying, however, probably have incredibly deep gloss well beyond what DC/Marvel did on issues printed after 1952. To be confident in the comparison it is really necessary to compare raw books to raw books so if you want to know for certain you need to get cracking, so to speak.

I know what you mean, and the Dell Ducks and Lone Rangers that I've owned do seem to be glossier than other GA books that I've seen, but I think they still don't compare to the glossiness of SA Marvels and DCs that I've seen. I did own a few NM Ducks in raw form before I slabbed them, and FC 282 (Pixilated Parrot) had really impressive colors with its orange cover, but still doesn't compare in my opinion to something like the Western Penn Daredevil #2 that I also owned raw, which positively glowed. Similarly, I've not owned any raw MH Lone Rangers, but I do own some raw MH Tontos (Dell), and to be honest they support my contention that GAs (even MHs) seem to be a bit dingier.

 

There are a few years in the 50s where the Dells are absolutely glossier than anything DC or Marvel put out after 1952. It's like the books received an extra coat of varnish. The Ibis 1 is glossy (it's a '43 issue) and is printed different regardless of how it looks freshness-wise in comparison to the #3.

 

While there can certainly be fresher looking copies in the 60s books it's hard to generalize without discussing more examples, and that's best done in person with raw books. There are definitely GA Church and Frisco's with unreal gloss & pq that will compare very favorably with the best 60s books.