Ray Romano and the Reason Why Movies Will Never Help

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Perfect example of how movie adaptations of superheroes will do nothing to draw newcomers to comics, many of whom genuinely believe comics are no longer published (this has been proven in several major polls - the average American is at best unsure and at worst convinced that comics are no longer made):

 

On the most recent episode of Ray Romano's show, in talking to an obnoxious kid about spiders, Romano makes a fleeting reference to Spider-Man. The kid, showing Romano that he knows the difference between fantasy and reality, responds simply:

 

"That's a movie."

 

And there you have it. Spider-Man is not a comic book character or a comic book series, he is now officially and retroactively a movie. No one out there even knows this industry exists.

 

Sad but true.

 

Arnold

[Rickdogg]

I just visited my friend yesterday that owns a comic shop about 45 minutes from where I live since I had to pick up books for Lighthouse ...anyways he told me that COMIC BOOK SALES ARE WAY DOWN!!! The sad thing is that he used to bag and board every single issue our of the box (even DC's!) and no longer practices this since he has to cut costs since comic sales are on the downslope. YUGI-OH CARDS ARE TAKING OVER! NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lantern]

This is an odd situation when one looks at the success of comic book based properties in other mediums. For example, television has Lois and Clark, Smallville, Birds of Prey, animated Batman, Superman, JLA, as well as others. The movie industry has Superman, Batman, Spider Man and the upcoming Daredevil and Hulk films. So why is it that the industry that feeds these other areas does not become as sucessful? Perhaps it is marketing, maybe the owners of the character rights of these properties should have commercials, previews, or advertisements for the comic book during the television shows or before the movies.

 

 

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

I think there are two incredibly powerful forces at work here:

 

1) As I noted above, most "mainstream" American TV watchers and moviegoers don't even have comics on their radar, and as shocking as it is to us, many of them don't even know they still exist - to them, these are all just movies and TV shows

 

2) Anyone who does know of the comic book source material, if not already a fan who has been able to overcome the powerful predisposition to view comics as embarrassing kiddie stuff that signifies lower intelligence - pretty much the dominant mainstream American viewpoint, has no motivation to seek out material that will only "make them look bad." It is socially acceptable in America to be a fan of cinema or even television, but not comics.

 

These are very strong societal forces, and I don't think you can win against them. But the signs are there that the *content* of some of our most loved comics is finally making the crossover. Perhaps one day...

[fantastic_four]

Comic books will be dealt their death-blow once computer graphics become cheap enough and easy enough to create a new film "issue" on a weekly or monthly basis. Film and video are simply superior media as compared to print; the only reason we haven't seen more superhero action on the big screen is because it hasn't been historically possible to depict super-powers in the same way that you can with static art.

 

Even today's technology is too expensive and hard to deal with to create anything decent for under tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. With that kind of expense, you can only create an "issue" every two years or so. Comics have the advantage that you can get dozens of unique "amazing fantasies" every week via a simple trip to the comic book store. Superhero comics continue to offer the functional advantage of offering to fill more of our free time than superhero films do. This is why superhero comics have outlasted all the other comics genres; the content that was once only widely available in "funny" books is now available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on television.

 

Once you can do super-powers justice on a weekly TV show, printed comics will be doomed. I doubt that'll happen for many decades, perhaps not even during any of our lifetimes. That's why I don't feel bad about paying big bucks for comics; I doubt the permanent drop in comic sales that ends the printed and distributed comic book will occur anytime soon. And even once printed comics are gone, the seminal (key) issues will continue to be valuable.

 

It's also possible that online comics could put printed comics out of business. Stan Lee believed that was the future when he started that company of his; too bad it bombed.

[Gunsmoke]

Why read the book (even the comic book) when you can watch the movie? To enjoy comic books one has to have a sense of imagination. And, imagination is fading away being replaced by special effects.

[SuperDuperComics-migration]

Comic books need to be made more accessable again. You used to go to your corner newsstand or soda shop or wherever and be able to find comic books. The price of a new comic needs to drop also, what is it now, $2.50 for a five minute read? Your average comic readers are not children anymore, they are full grown adults with enough disposable funds to work with. Kids are more worried about playing a Spider-Man video game than reading a Spider-Man comic book. Marvel & DC need to work on more long term ways of creating and mantaining sales, instead of the multi covered prism holo foil signed and re-marked number 1 every other month kind of game that's being played right now. I could write a book.

[fantastic_four]

To enjoy comic books one has to have a sense of imagination. And, imagination is fading away being replaced by special effects

That's an unfair assessment. In both comics and film, the writer/artist or director/CGI artists fill in the "imagination" for the reader/viewer. Both media are passively narrative.

 

The main difference between the printed word and drawn picture (comics) versus the spoken word and filmed or animated scene (film) is that film is more naturalistically compelling. Literature has never and will never evoke the same emotional response that plays or film can. This is a reason why Shakespeare was a playright, not a literary author. Rather ironic that the man most people believe to be the best author of all time hated the idea of merely writing words on paper! That was a huge part of his genius. He wrote words in the spirit of speaking them more effectively than anyone before and possibly since. He had stumbled upon a human truth--the weaknesses inherent in writing as a medium--earlier than any other talented author before him.

 

Reading requires more concentration--you have to focus your eyes and interpret the letters/words/sentences, which is harder than watching and listening--and as such is more conducive to the discipline required for learning. This is one of the major reasons why the printed word will continue to be relevant into the far future, even once video and film eventually become so easy to produce that kids learn how to use a motion picture camera in middle school! Reading may be one of the best ways to force you into the concentration necessary to learn new things, but it ain't nowhere close to the best way to make you feel good like films do. Eventually film too will be supplanted once virtual reality takes on a realistic form, which most of us won't live to see proliferate like film has.

 

I had the ambition to be a literary author for almost a decade--Fitzgerald was and mostly still is my literary hero--so I'm not saying any of this out of a hatred for books. It would be difficult for me to have more of an appreciation for the printed word; I never worked a job or lived anywhere where I didn't have a thick- dictionary and thesaurus until they became available via the web. But in all objectivity, I believe the written word to be an inferior way to evoke emotional responses in humans.

[SuperDuperComics-migration]

Comic books need to be made more accessable again. You used to go to your corner newsstand or soda shop or wherever and be able to find comic books. The price of a new comic needs to drop also, what is it now, $2.50 for a five minute read? Your average comic readers are not children anymore, they are full grown adults with enough disposable funds to work with. Kids are more worried about playing a Spider-Man video game than reading a Spider-Man comic book. Marvel & DC need to work on more long term ways of creating and mantaining sales, instead of the multi covered prism holo foil signed and re-marked number 1 every other month kind of game that's being played right now. I could write a book.

[aardvark88]

Ppl have switched to collecting videos & dvds (new or used). More entertainment value for the buck compared to a back issue or 3 new issues.

[Guest]

I don't know about that...something in the imagination, the "personal" imagery part is GONE once you start imaging the video in your minds eye, that was FED to you by the film producer. I still don't like MTV/VH1/BET, etc. because of this....watching someone elses video imagination while hearing a song that previously, the only imagery I called upon was my own until the videographer's version was implanted in my mind curteousy of Music-Videos.

[fantastic_four]

The vast majority of music videos are inferior to just the song, I totally agree. Any music video that features the ARTIST absolutely sucks! A good song has good music, good rhythm, and good lyrical content. The damn singer adds no value to any of that most of the time. Sticking the artist on a stage singing into a mike in a music video is a convention born from tradition and marketing. The videos worth watching are those with imagery that support the music or its message, and you've gotta watch the music channels longer than its worth to see anything like that, although every year I see more and more good videos from directors who understand the potential of the medium to create a more unified work of art. My favorite video of all time is "Closer" by Nine Inch Nails, and it enhances the song tremendously. It actually has only a very loose connection to the song's topic, but the combination of the visual imagery with the lyrics and the music create an experience that is far beyond the lyrics and music alone. Your argument about videos is an extension of the argument that people have held for centuries with regards to instrumental music versus music with a lyrical singer. Lyrics create a whole new experience separate from music alone; video coupled with music and lyrics also creates a whole new experience. Each medium has its strengths, and the multi-media (lyrical songs and video) are much more complex; but the media themselves are not inferior.

 

Humans are sight-oriented organisms. Sight is the center of our existence; it's simply the way we function. This theory has become a part of our cultural mainstream; it ain't news to anybody reading this. However, realizing that is central to understanding why visual media are superior forms of communication to the written word. Do the simple media such as literature, music, and comics force us to use our imagination more? Absolutely. Sort of. I studied comparative media for a period of just over a year in college, and I saw a lot of studies that found that the average reader visualizes people and places they've already seen when reading a book. When I read Huck Finn, I visualized a childhood friend. When I read A Separate Peace, I visualized the place where the kid got pushed into the lake as a spot on the James River that I had been to before. Simple media do force you to use your own imagination more, but I don't believe that they inspire the imagination like the multi-media such as film do.

 

When you're reading a Spider-Man novel, your imagination has to go wild, true. Assuming that you've never seen any of the comics, the cartoons, or the movie, then it's hard to say how you imagine it; everyone would have their own vision. There is a certain wondrous quality to that experience. When you read the Spider-Man comic book, you have to use imagination also; we visualize the kicking, the fighting, the action. We turn the static panels into real motion. And when we watch a film, yes, we blank out more and don't use our imagination; our two major senses are inundated with sight and sound. It's very difficult for humans to both think abstractly and process inputs from multiple senses at a time, so our imagination during the film isn't as active.

 

But the film creates new forms of imagination that literature NEVER could and NEVER will! Twice as many kids would go out to play Cowboys and Indians after a movie as would those that do it after reading a comic book. And twice as many kids would go out and play Cowboys and Indians after reading a comic book as opposed to reading a book. I never had a realistic notion of what a dinosaur would look like until I saw Jurassic Park. My imagination is MUCH more vivid now that I've seen an example of what they could have been like!

 

In the strictest sense, film does encourage less imagination than a comic--but only DURING the film. And it really only works that way because our physical faculties are limited and film saturates them. After the film, your imagination runs as wild as your optimism and youth allow it to.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

arnoldt: Perfect example of how movie adaptations of superheroes will do nothing to draw newcomers to comics, many of whom genuinely believe comics are no longer published (this has been proven in several major polls - the average American is at best unsure and at worst convinced that comics are no longer made):

 

First I want to adress the subject of polls. The major flaw of MOST polls is... that a limited SELECTIVE AUDIENCE is polled. I never participate in the polls that are constantly quoted on CNN, and often my opinion/view is in the minority, so if enough people such as myself participated then the reslults would be much different. Main point, polls are not gospel, and the results are limited to the selective audience polled.

 

Anyway If I may, I would like to give a personal example that might give thought to the "other side" of the issue at hand. I liked Superheroes BEFORE I ever owned a comic book. I played with Mego Superheroes (like Superman - I would literally throw him in the air, Spider-Man - I took good care of Spider-Man, and the Hulk - unfortunately this figure could break waaaay too easy) BERORE I ever owned a comic book. The point I'm getting at is this; just because the kids are NOT storming the comic shops NOW, does NOT mean they will NOT at a future date. The Spider-Man Movie is a very good thing ($800 million and counting) to the CHARACTER. It has sparked interest in the CHARACTER of Spider-Man, and EVERYTHING related to Spider-Man (I have Spider-Man movie boxers to prove it, I swear they were a gift). Some here may be shocked to hear me say this, but I actually enjoy seeing my favorite heroes in video games and movies (when they are done right), and I think that comic book publishers realize that other media can be used as a good source of revenue, which in turn keeps charcaters popular, and the ("unpopular") comics coming for us fanboys.

 

Suggestions and ideas that might help the popularity of modern comic books

 

As someone else has already mentioned in this thread, I am in agreement that the average cover price of a comic book is too high and NEEDS to be lowered. If the average cover price were lowered to say $1.50, I belive that it would bring in more readers (old and young), more popularity (result of more readers), and more sales (result of more interest in comic book characters) on everything related to comic books (PEZ candy anyone? How about a Superhero Slurpee?). I would like to see comic books make a big comeback in the newstand market. Comic book publishers are cutting their own throats IF they are selling comics almost exclusively through the direct market ( from Diamond Comic Distributers to comic shops to consumer). To address the complaints about kids NOT interested in comics more directly, maybe the art and stories of a few (NOT all of em') of the mainstream titles should take a slight change in direction to a more light hearted, fun approach in the likeness of Silver Age comic books, that would be TARGETED to a younger audience [and I'm not talkin' about the square chinned animated Batman or Superman]. Personally, I would still read em', and enjoy em', I like the good ol' "classic" stories. Also I think that the comic book industry could use a good boost in talent across the board. I'm NOT sayin' that there is NO talent to be found today, I'm sayin we NEED MORE high profile talent in MORE of the titles. Well, flawed as they may be, these are a few of my ideas. For more of my ideas look in the "Comic Book Market" forum, and look for a topic I started called "Grand Theft Comic Book Market". You should at least be entertained by the exchange of words between CI and myself

 

Anyway, I like to read comics, I like to watch movies, and I like to play video games, and I think that there is enough room for them in the entertainment market to co-exist together.

 

My video game market forcast...the market is getting more and more stagnant, as fewer developers are coming up with new and innovative ideas for games, most of the time, it's just rehash after rehash, and maybe, just maybe some of these people will wake up and discover that comic books are still being sold!

[cd4ever]

I've recently seen large, pretty nicely done comic book displays in both Borders and Barnes and Nobles recently which I think is a great market to sell comics. Unfortunately, I don't actually recall anyone looking at them or buying them. And the Borders closest to me has the comic rack (not a rack, really, a nice wooden comic book holder that does not damage the merchandise) blocked on two sides by large chairs that people are normally sitting in. So in order to look at the books, you need to stick your crotch in some guys face, behavior I generally try to avoid. Unless it's a girl. And she's hot. And we're alone. And she doesn't have pepper spray.

[Mister_Comics]

This weeks SMALLVILLE shown part of Lex's comic collection of AVENGING ANGEL, a made-up comic for the show. One of the issues actually looked liked a take off of ACTION #1. This was the first time I actually seen something on film that didn't make comics look like they were just for kids.

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

That was WARRIOR ANGEL, and yes it's a nice touch, but mainly used for rather over-the-top sledgehammer subtle symbolism, re: the amazing similarity between the careers of Warrior Angel and his arch-foe, Devilicus (sheesh), and those of the future Superman and future arch-foe Luthor.

 

 

[Architecht]

It's no different for books either. Of the people who have seen Silence of the Lambs in the general public, how many knew it was a book in a series long before it became a movie?

 

The only book to movie converter that I can think of who has pretty solid recognition that the source of the stories are books is Stephen King.

 

It's also no different for foreign films and TV. Many of the films and TV shows we have are just blatant copies of foreign stuff.

 

And I wonder how much of our radio and TV news is inspired by things read in newspapers - some one else does the leg work and TV follows up with greater exposure. The bottom line is that American TV and movies drive the main stream culture today. Everything else feeds into them.

 

As for comics, It just seems to me that selling comcis primarily in comic book shops is the real problem. Its just not all that accessible to the main stream.

 

Personally, I just wonder how long it will be before comics move to the internet. Of course, that's heresy to you guys who collect books .

 

But there are already internet only comic strips.

 

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-11-11&res=l

 

And even cartoons.

 

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail.html

 

Hrmmmm...

 

Arch

[OldGuy]

"Personally, I just wonder how long it will be before comics move to the internet."

 

I'm thinking just as long as it took for books to move to "books on tape".

[Rickdogg]

*bump* In honor of the downfall of the market crash thread.

 

The funny thing is...my sister is a teacher and she came over yesterday and told me that many of her grade students think that Spider-man is in fact just a movie and did not know that comics started it all

[murph0]

Those bastards!! I really think the comic should've been interpreted into the movie some how..you know like..some kid running up and saying "Hey Spiderman, sign my Spiderman comic!"

 

Brian