When should GPA prices really apply in a comic sale?

[Bosco685]

In a few threads the topic came up about concerns when someone should reflect on GPA data for pricing. George, this is not a discussion about if GPA is a great reference tool (it is), so put the virtual beer bottle down you were about to throw.

 

So if GPA is made up of data feeds from eBay and Heritage, and those sale prices were done through interfaces that involved eBay Insert Fees, eBay Final Value Fees, and Heritage Buyer's Premium that the sellers in most cases planned for, does the data really apply in collector-to-collector sales where such fees are not involved in the cost model?

 

Also, should such references also be applied to raw books?

 

What do fellow forum members think?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Nope, they should not be applied to raw books...unless you're also going to apply them to kitchen white goods, or gasoline prices at the pumps. Apples and oranges.

 

And GPA is a handy tool, but you know what they say about statistics, they can be made to prove anything. Certain sellers will quote GPA selectively. Or if GPA doesn't look so great, will fall back on Overstreet. Or if this fails to 'maximise', will link you to 'an inferior copy that sold last month on CLink'.

 

Or they'll just make something up.

 

At the end of the day, the educated buyer will pay what they're willing to pay, or what they're able to pay, and the rest is just static. (thumbs u

[Limited66]

I'd also have to agree that if the price is inflated by incorporated costs of sale and those costs dissappear, then the seller should be willing to take a price discounted by the average costs of sale avoided by dealing directly with another collector.

 

Of course, like FT just said, everyone is trying to maximize their selling price, so unless you point out that if they sold it through Heritage or Ebay they would actually get less than the GPA, most people are probably trying to get the price very close to GPA.

 

I'd ignore all GPA references when dealing with raw books.

[rodan57]

Nope, they should not be applied to raw books...unless you're also going to apply them to kitchen white goods, or gasoline prices at the pumps. Apples and oranges.

 

And GPA is a handy tool, but you know what they say about statistics, they can be made to prove anything. Certain sellers will quote GPA selectively. Or if GPA doesn't look so great, will fall back on Overstreet. Or if this fails to 'maximise', will link you to 'an inferior copy that sold last month on CLink'.

 

Or they'll just make something up.

 

At the end of the day, the educated buyer will pay what they're willing to pay, or what they're able to pay, and the rest is just static. (thumbs u

 

Well put.

[gaz973]

At the end of the day GPA is a guide, not an definite level to set a price at. If a seller thinks GPA is low, he can price higher and if a seller thinks that the GPA price quoted by a seller is high then he doesn't have to buy the book.

A guide is a guide.

 

[COI]

Also, should such references also be applied to raw books?

 

Remember what the 'G' in GPA stands for, and you're good.

[Bosco685]

Also, should such references also be applied to raw books?

 

Remember what the 'G' in GPA stands for, and you're good.

 

I'm with ya there Captain. Threw that out for discussion as it appears to come up often as a concern. I would have to ask why if we are not talking apples-to-apples when that comes up.

 

Great points across the board!

[RockMyAmadeus]

The argument fails, though. If you're a buyer, and you bid $555 (and someone else bids $545) for an item on eBay, and you win, you pay $555 plus applicable S&H.

 

You don't "pay less" if the seller happened to get a free listing, or free FVFs. You pay what you bid.

 

Granted, you can use it as a point of negotiation in making a direct buyer to seller purchase ("you don't have to pay eBay listing/FVFs, so can you cut me a break?"), but in the final analysis, none of that is a consideration to a buyer when winning an eBay item (and thus, recording a GPA price.) That final bid is the price someone was willing to pay.

 

Now, as for the BP on Heritage...that's another story, because there, the buyer IS paying a premium over the actual hammer price.

[Bosco685]

I think the point was missed, but maybe the way it was stated.

 

When someone is planning to sell books through a given interface, they also should be factoring all costs into their base price. So the argument would apply for those that run a business or are very savvy about their pricing to ensure there is no lost costs. So that would be the eBay environment aditional costs that come into play on pricing.

 

Make more sense?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I saw this one coming. So I will answer it in its brutish honesty.

 

GPA should be used when the data works for the seller.

 

Should raw be sold at GPA, no. But it will continue.

 

If a dealer has 3 books for sale. Of the 3 books GPA is higher then OSPG in 2 cases, in the third case GPA is roughly 2/3 of OSPG value. Therefore the seller decides OSPG is better in this situation.

 

At the end of the day, the most valuable tool is the buyer. You have this info at your desposal. If used wisely, you may be able to avoid overpaying on book 3. It is the buyers decision if they want to pay GPA on raw, and the buyers decision if they decide to work with dealers sliding scale of favor.

[Bosco685]

I saw this one coming. So I will answer it in its brutish honesty.

 

GPA should be used when the data works for the seller.

 

Should raw be sold at GPA, no. But it will continue.

 

If a dealer has 3 books for sale. Of the 3 books GPA is higher then OSPG in 2 cases, in the third case GPA is roughly 2/3 of OSPG value. Therefore the seller decides OSPG is better in this situation.

 

At the end of the day, the most valuable tool is the buyer. You have this info at your desposal. If used wisely, you may be able to avoid overpaying on book 3. It is the buyers decision if they want to pay GPA on raw, and the buyers decision if they decide to work with dealers sliding scale of favor.

 

THANK YOU PAT! Extremely logical.

[conditionfreak]

Do insurance companies accept GPA data to settle claims for lost or damaged comics? Or do they accept Overstreet only?

 

I ask this because there is a booming Signature Series collectors market, and CGC'ed books sell for way more than raw books. How does PGX fit into the insurance claim thing?

[supapimp]

does anybody know if GPA factors in CL and pedigree sales?

 

thanks in advance.

[Bosco685]

no CL as random sales events were going to be given, and not all sales. At least, that is the rumor.

 

Not sure on Pedigree, but signature is noted.

[Flaming_Telepath]

does anybody know if GPA factors in CL and pedigree sales?

 

thanks in advance.

 

No to Clink.

 

Yes to Pedigree.

[tth2]

Now, as for the BP on Heritage...that's another story, because there, the buyer IS paying a premium over the actual hammer price.

This reminds me of an item that should go into the FAQs that should be stickied at the top of General, as the number of math illiterate people on these boards continues to be staggering.

[Mr.Silvestri]

Yet another great thread from Bosco, And with that I have to chime in and put this out there.

 

You can take this anyway you want but at the end of the day, here is what your left with: GPA has only recorded books that have been sold on auction site's that can be shilled by someone else. And have not recorded ANY thing from this forum board or any forum site, so the price of a graded only book is NOT the true price because how does anyone really know for sure how many books have been bought by the owner or a " friend" of the owner just to maximise the top sale of any one book. Now if they had included books being sold on the CGC board or any other forum board then I'd be more incline to take GPA to the next level as most do with OSPG.

 

BUT

 

They have not, so the true value for any one book is still " what the buyer is willing to pay" Sure a seller can come in with a high $$$ on what they want to sell but if there is no buyer then the book is still not worth what GPA claims it's worth.

 

And their is NO WAY GPA should ever be used for a raw book being sold.

[divad]

Yet another great thread from Bosco, And with that I have to chime in and put this out there.

 

You can take this anyway you want but at the end of the day, here is what your left with: GPA has only recorded books that have been sold on auction site's that can be shilled by someone else. And have not recorded ANY thing from this forum board or any forum site, so the price of a graded only book is NOT the true price because how does anyone really know for sure how many books have been bought by the owner or a " friend" of the owner just to maximise the top sale of any one book. Now if they had included books being sold on the CGC board or any other forum board then I'd be more incline to take GPA to the next level as most do with OSPG.

 

BUT

 

They have not, so the true value for any one book is still " what the buyer is willing to pay" Sure a seller can come in with a high $$$ on what they want to sell but if there is no buyer then the book is still not worth what GPA claims it's worth.

 

And their is NO WAY GPA should ever be used for a raw book being sold.

 

wow . . .

[the blob]

Now if they had included books being sold on the CGC board or any other forum board then I'd be more incline to take GPA to the next level as most do with OSPG.

******************

 

of course, in theory, most of us give a little bit of a discount here (if for nothing else to take into account ebay's anticipated piece of the action) and it's not an auction setting. someone sets a price for a book and it sells in 10 seconds...kindah makes you think they could have probably gotten a little more for it.

[tth2]

You can take this anyway you want but at the end of the day, here is what your left with: GPA has only recorded books that have been sold on auction site's that can be shilled by someone else. And have not recorded ANY thing from this forum board or any forum site, so the price of a graded only book is NOT the true price because how does anyone really know for sure how many books have been bought by the owner or a " friend" of the owner just to maximise the top sale of any one book. Now if they had included books being sold on the CGC board or any other forum board then I'd be more incline to take GPA to the next level as most do with OSPG.

I guess I'm just in a cynical mood this morning, but what in the world makes you think that forum board sales are immune to shilling? What stops me from listing a bunch of books in the Marketplace at pie in the sky prices and then getting one of my buddies to hit the BIN, and then "he" sells the book at an artificially high price to a legitimate buyer based on the manipulated GPA data?

 

If board sales started getting included in GPA, I think all sorts of dirty tricks would start taking place here.