G.I. Joe #21 Original Art From Another Perspective

[delekkerste]

Here's a great post from today's ComicArt-L.org list. Not saying I agree or disagree with the poster's assessment of value (BTW, he has the best Mike Zeck collection in the world and is also heavy into early Joe art), but hopefully this should silence the jokers out there who think this artwork has little significance or monetary value.

 

 

 

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 13:24:01 -0500

From: "Charles Costas"

Subject: Re: GI Joe 21 - 10K+ ? Whhaaaaa?

 

Couldn't help but chime in on this one as I'm probably one of the biggest G.I. Joe art collectors out there...

 

When you think of classic 80's comics and pop-culture, G.I. Joe was right up there. Yes, DK, Watchmen, TMNT, X-Men, and other books helped to define the era, but the early G.I. Joe and Transformers comics helped define those characters and made those action figures that kids (and some adults) were playing with "real". What made Snake Eyes cool? - his costume - no, it was the way he was portrayed in the comics.

 

I've been collecting G.I. Joe art ever since I met Mike Zeck in 1986 and "behind the scenes" I've seen the prices on these creep up over the years. At this point, early pages and covers are pretty much impossible to find! Although people may not have taken as much notice, "classic" Joe covers from the Zeck era and below sell in the thousands (if you can find them), not hundreds anymore. As far as the early pages - the pages below #10 are the most in demand along with pages from #21 and some of the other Snake Eyes issues. I've been actively seeking to buy these, but there hasn't been any on eBay or at shows for a looooong time (if you have any please sell them to me) - only some Springer pages have surfaced in recent years! The Donnelly's were the only ones who ever had a significant cache of early pages, but they have long since sold all their pages. The Mike Vosburg pages (who did most issues #9-23) are also pretty scarce as Mike didn't care much for his G.I. Joe art and routinely sold his pages for $5-10 at shows - he hypothesizes that most of his original art pages ended up tacked to some kid's closet door or maybe they used them for coloring practice.

 

Does it surprise me that early pages are now fetching what 2nd run Cockrum X-Men pages are getting? - nope! For the people in their late 20's/early 30's, the Joe stuff is just as memorable. Could I see a page from issue #1 going for $1k or an early cover going for $5-10k? - given that some 2nd run X-Men stuff has, I wouldn't be surprised. I think the staying power of G.I. Joe will keep this stuff in demand 50 years from now relative to some of the other comic art from the 80's.

 

As far as the #21 deal, although I'm one of the premiere Joe collectors out there, I was not even made aware that it was going up for sale. Would I have paid $10k for it? - without a doubt! I do have a feeling that it did go for more than that (and for Ben and Larry's sake I hope it did). I know there are other List members who also would have made a run for this and made it interesting. My sense is that it should have gone for $15-20k. As Mankuta noted, this was a classic issue that people will remember. Also, there are only three complete early interiors - #8 (by Trimpe), the #21, and #24 (by Heath). Again, value is all relative - how many DK pages does $10k buy you - maybe one good one these days (unless you try to buy it at San Diego - then it will be $43.5k)? For someone into 80's nostalgia, maybe they would rather have that G.I. Joe complete book than a single Miller DK or Ditko ASM page.

 

Anyway, does that mean all G.I. Joe art is worth that - no! Personally I don't collect covers past issue #65 and interiors past issue #30. I think there are others out there as well that would prefer to have the early stuff - that's the stuff we remember reading.

 

Didn't mean to go on so long, but I feel very strongly about the Joe stuff. Hope these insights are helpful...

 

-Chuck Costas

[rob_react]

Dude, if you really don't care about the "value" of your purchase (and I'd like to believe you don't) then why do you spend all this time defending it in terms of valuation? Seriously, it looks like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[FlComicFan]

Not really so sure the rest of the run is all that collectable but #21 is the issue that everybody remembers so that art was probably a good buy When and if it resells I expect it will go for a lot more

[delekkerste]

Dude, if you really don't care about the "value" of your purchase (and I'd like to believe you don't) then why do you spend all this time defending it in terms of valuation? Seriously, it looks like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

R_R,

 

I hope you can see that I'm just defending myself against personal attacks and people spreading misinformation about the art. Since when did that become "talking out of both sides of your mouth"? Notice that in the earlier Joe #21 threads I uttered nary a peep about the cost or value...it's only been over the past several days as certain Board members decided they had an axe to grind with me and raised the issue as part of their agenda.

 

Gene

[Mushroom]

Gene....you have nothing to justify. You got a great piece and anybody who cares what price you paid is not looking at you as a collector (which in this case you are).

 

Most people keep their purchases private....I know I do.....as it is nobody's business but mine.

[delekkerste]

Thanks, Mushroom. I know we disagree on the subject of where the comic market is headed, but I know that we share something in common in that we are both passionate fans and collectors. Because of my views on the market, people seem to forget that I am, first and foremost, an enthusiastic participant in our great hobby.

 

Thanks for the vote of support.

 

Gene

[BachelorOfComix]

10K ain't a bad price. It works out to be about $500 a page which doesn't seem too outlandish. If the pages were sold individually on ebay I think the end total could come close to 10K.

[rob_react]

Dude, if you really don't care about the "value" of your purchase (and I'd like to believe you don't) then why do you spend all this time defending it in terms of valuation? Seriously, it looks like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

R_R,

 

I hope you can see that I'm just defending myself against personal attacks and people spreading misinformation about the art. Since when did that become "talking out of both sides of your mouth"?

 

It's simple- you say you really don't care about any of these valuation issues- either in terms of your own outlay or in the perceived "value" of your purchase. But then you turn around and take part in an active defense of the value of your purchase. To me, that looks an awful lot like you do care. Otherwise why try to prove something about the piece's value in a public forum, especially in this way- starting a new thread (which obviously will draw more attention to the issue.) As you've said, you bought this piece for yourself and you have no intentions of ever selling it. If that's the case what does it matter what any of us think? Especially someone who just has an axe to grind with you?

 

I know sometimes it's hard to let a thread of an argument go, but there are just some battles that aren't worth fighting. To me this seems like one of them. Just enjoy the piece and let the people who think you're nuts (or whatever it is that they think) stew in their own juices.

 

Of course, I don't know the first thing about your actual motivations. Take this for what it's worth. This is just what it looks like to me as a basically impartial observer.

 

[14 of spades]

This is just what it looks like to me as a basically impartial observer.

 

if you were truly an impartial observer, you wouldn't have posted a reply.

[Bronty]

What he can't be impartial and have an opinion? There's a difference between partiality and analysis.

[14 of spades]

What he can't be impartial and have an opinion? There's a difference between partiality and analysis.

 

re: OBSERVER...

[rob_react]

This is just what it looks like to me as a basically impartial observer.

 

if you were truly an impartial observer, you wouldn't have posted a reply.

 

How am I not "basically impartial?" I don't have any sort of stake or interest, beyond regular intellectual curiosity, in the question of whether or not Gene overpaid for his GI Joe 21 artwork. I also don't have any interest beyond normal forum flame war gawking in who is the "winner" of the Tom Murmane and Gene grudge match.

[rob_react]

What he can't be impartial and have an opinion? There's a difference between partiality and analysis.

 

re: OBSERVER...

 

nitpick much?

 

How about this? I passed my OBSERVATIONS on to Gene.

[14 of spades]

i replied in the way that i did because i didn't feel you were being impartial.

 

 

are u in denial much?

 

 

I know sometimes it's hard to let a thread of an argument go, but there are just some battles that aren't worth fighting. To me this seems like one of them.

 

using your argument, perhaps he shouldn't have even replied to your first post? i'm sure you wanted him to reply to your post, and hence - it was a battle WORTH fighting... and yet you dismiss other's questioning as being battles not worth fighting...

 

how was your post different than those of the other "people" that you refer to?

 

gene didn't reply to your post out of defense, speculation, or paranoia. he replied because he had a reply to your comment. just as he has done for the others.

 

How about this? I passed my OBSERVATIONS on to Gene.

 

 

i see that you now concede u are passing on observations...

 

Just enjoy the piece and let the people who think you're nuts (or whatever it is that they think) stew in their own juices.

 

good advice.

 

 

[Illiterati-migration]

 

Really, though, it's just something about Gene that drives men to verbally assault him... he's like message board chum.

[lighthouse]

 

Really, though, it's just something about Gene that drives men to verbally assault him... he's like message board chum.

 

It's the hair, buddy... it's all about the hair...

 

You should have seen greggy weeping in San Diego at the mere sight of Gene's awe-inspiring hair...

[greggy]

 

Really, though, it's just something about Gene that drives men to verbally assault him... he's like message board chum.

 

It's the hair, buddy... it's all about the hair...

 

You should have seen greggy weeping in San Diego at the mere sight of Gene's awe-inspiring hair...

Another urban legend started by House? Now...should I expose the TRUTH about your past to the open forum? Decisions...decisions!

[Illiterati-migration]

 

Really, though, it's just something about Gene that drives men to verbally assault him... he's like message board chum.

 

It's the hair, buddy... it's all about the hair...

 

You should have seen greggy weeping in San Diego at the mere sight of Gene's awe-inspiring hair...

 

Is it bouffant? Does he have an enormous spit curl? Is it a pompadour??? TELL ME, 'HOUSE!! OPEN YOUR DAMNED QUAKER MOUTH AND TELL ME!!!!!

[Illiterati-migration]

 

Really, though, it's just something about Gene that drives men to verbally assault him... he's like message board chum.

 

It's the hair, buddy... it's all about the hair...

 

You should have seen greggy weeping in San Diego at the mere sight of Gene's awe-inspiring hair...

Another urban legend started by House? Now...should I expose the TRUTH about your past to the open forum? Decisions...decisions!

 

'House is that lobotomized person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point TRUTH from the Cooler?!?!?!!? Actaully, that kinda makes sense...

 

[greggy]

 

Really, though, it's just something about Gene that drives men to verbally assault him... he's like message board chum.

 

It's the hair, buddy... it's all about the hair...

 

You should have seen greggy weeping in San Diego at the mere sight of Gene's awe-inspiring hair...

Another urban legend started by House? Now...should I expose the TRUTH about your past to the open forum? Decisions...decisions!

 

'House is that lobotomized person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point TRUTH from the Cooler?!?!?!!? Actaully, that kinda makes sense...

 

No...he's azdork and TJ combined!