Question From An Eager Noob: Where to Spend $20,000?

[FlyingDonut]

This thread is ball-breakingly hysterical.

 

If this guy is legit, and a noob, he isn't in a position to drop 20K on funny books. It's irresponsible for any of you to throw out advice that is obviously biased towards your own collecting habits and interests.

 

And to the OP: The best advice I or anyone else can give, is NOT to get financial advice from anonymous strangers on a message board. It's ok to ask for opinions, but put in the time to do research FIRST, before you start listening to anyone. Go deep enough, and you might find that you don't want to invest in comics AT ALL. It's really easy for people to give out advice, since it isn't their money to lose, and rarely does anyone hesitate to throw out their opinions, solicited or otherwise; generosity is NOT how I would refer to it.

 

There's a lot of money in this hobby, but it's an unregulated one driven by emotion. Everyone is going to tell you to collect what they collect, or want to collect. Just because someone's avatar matches the advice they're giving, doesn't make them right. Put the time in, do your research, and be sure this is what you want to do. Then you can ask for opinions to cross-reference with your findings, and make an educated decision.

 

If you're in a hurry and not willing to put the time in, you deserve to lose your 20K.

 

Finally!

 

My advice (which you shouldn't consider anyway, given that this is a comic book internet message board) would be to buy stocks, mutual funds, and real estate for investment. For one thing, comics are a hobby and should be collected for fun, and not as a blue chip replacement for traditional investments. They have poor liquidity, as the markets that support their prices are often very, very thin. Second, over the next 1-2 years stocks are going to be available for purchase at historic multiyear lows. Remember "buy low, sell high"? Funny that at precisely the best occasion to start loading up on stocks, the general sentiment is instead to avoid them because of the short-term past.

 

Buy comics you enjoy as a hobby with money that's not part of any nest egg, and save your $20K for traditional investing.

 

I did say he should only be doing it with money he wouldn't be afraid to lose.

[showcase4]

To further my point here, and add some pics to this thread, "investing" in comics can be simple, and I think it is in this case, too. The guy has $20k, and likes Batman. (he likes Green Lantern and Daredevil too, but we are talking about investing, so I am only focusing on Batman, for obvious reasons) Sticking to the universal investment winning formula of unrestored, decent PQ, and CGC graded........IMO, you can't go wrong with any of these 3 books, which have sold fairly recently in the $17,000 - $19,500 range. (each )

 

......and if he can buy one from Dale Roberts or Richard Evans, then it's even sweeter

 

any of these 3 offer:

 

nice PQ

unrestored

CGC graded

mainstream issue ( not esoteric )

major / popular Superhero

high demand

Classic Cover

one of his favorite characters

max book for the money invested

[MR.COMICBOOK]

 

 

People will always be interested in Spiderman's first appearance and time itself is the major factor in a book like this appreciating.

 

 

 

 

In the first Overstreet published in 1970 it looked like people would always be interested in Flash Gordon's first appearance in Four Color. I'm sure some people thought that people would "always be interested" in this book.

 

Yes, I think Spidey will outlast Flash Gordon, but my point is, you can never say ALWAYS when you are talking about investments.

 

The housing market ALWAYS goes up on a national basis. Remember that one? It might decline regionally, but never nationally.

 

When oil prices were $150, people said oil would hit $200 before it hit $100 again, and it would never be $50 again. Within a few months it touched a low of $33.

 

People use the justification of "it has never happened before" as the basis of an investment strategy. Just because it hasd not happened before does not mean it cannot happen.

 

You say TIME ITSELF is the reason for the price appreciations on AF 15. I would argue that the MOST important factor in the RECENT price appreciations has been the impact of the films, the influx of new collectors due to those films, the advent of CGC, the realization that high grade AF 15's are truly scarce, and the typical herd mentality of investors.

 

It is not TIME ITSELF that is the primary factor.

 

But those influences are already factored into the price, just like info is factored into a stock price. Yes, AF 15 will most likely keep going up in value, I agree, but eventually the pace of the price increases will slow down to a "normal" level.

 

Just like house prices did not rise at 25% per year forever, neither will high grade AF 15's

 

I think it also has to do with marketing. example Batman has been much better marketed than Shadow over the last 20 years or Spider-man has been marketed better than Flash Gordon. Marvel and DC have kept there main characters in the public eye while other companies have done nothing. Look at Tracy for example, what has been done with this character over the last decade? People forget, I don`t see that happening with Spider-man.

[Matches Malone-migration]

Thanks so much, all of you. I'm taking notes and learning ALOT!

 

Here's another question: What CGC grade is too low, even if it is a book that I like? If I found a Batman #1 or early 'Tec in 1.0 or 2.0, for example? Is this worth messing with, or do I hold out for a better grade even if it means a whole lot more money? Thanks!

[steelhelmet]

My thoughts: if you have 20K, set it aside as a war chest for a grail core book that will eventually come along. For you my best guess is 1 or more pre-Bat Tec's but with Batman covers, like what Showcase4 has been suggesting.My reasoning is you like Batman, and you need a book that you will likely hold onto for the long term. In the meantime you can buy high grade raw and CGC early Bronze Neal Adams books as they become available, same with Daredevil and Green Lantern-think Showcase 22 with Ow or better, another grail book. All these secondary books can possibly be bought with carefully budgeted funds. Sources would be-these boards, Ebay, Heritage, and if not sure of a seller, ask around (surely Uthe from Germany would love your business).

 

[Matches Malone-migration]

My thoughts: if you have 20K, set it aside as a war chest for a grail core book that will eventually come along. For you my best guess is 1 or more pre-Bat Tec's but with Batman covers, like what Showcase4 has been suggesting.My reasoning is you like Batman, and you need a book that you will likely hold onto for the long term. In the meantime you can buy high grade raw and CGC early Bronze Neal Adams books as they become available, same with Daredevil and Green Lantern-think Showcase 22 with Ow or better, another grail book. All these secondary books can possibly be bought with carefully budgeted funds. Sources would be-these boards, Ebay, Heritage, and if not sure of a seller, ask around (surely Uthe from Germany would love your business).

 

Sounds good, man. So, what grade is worth getting, what is the lowest CGC grade I should invest in, for the books that you mentioned? Thanks!

[steelhelmet]

Hi, I meant to say PRE-ROBIN tec's, not pre-Bat Tec's. Sorry

[dekeuk]

Thanks so much, all of you. I'm taking notes and learning ALOT!

 

Here's another question: What CGC grade is too low, even if it is a book that I like? If I found a Batman #1 or early 'Tec in 1.0 or 2.0, for example? Is this worth messing with, or do I hold out for a better grade even if it means a whole lot more money? Thanks!

 

I think it is more important to focus on EYE APPEAL. Does it look OK to you even though it is low grade.

 

If it OK to your eye now, it will be OK to someone else's eye when you go to resell it.

 

For me personally, the biggest turn-off is when pieces are missing from the front cover, especially large pieces.

 

I can live with pieces off the back cover, or inside the book, but the front cover has to look nice to me.

 

I also hate a lot of writing or stains on the front cover. Who doesn't

 

Sometimes a 3.0 can look worse to the eye than a 1.5

 

Use your eye as a guide as to what is too low grade

 

Just be aware that high grade books have been appreciating at a much faster pace than low and mid grade books since the first guide was pubished in 1970. The first spread in 1970 was high grade was worth 3 times as much as low grade, then it was 6 times as much as the 1980's, and then officially 11 times as much in current guides.

 

But with CGC, high grade silver/bronze often sells for 100 or even 1000 times the price of low grade.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

 

 

[Drakeprimeone]

 

 

People will always be interested in Spiderman's first appearance and time itself is the major factor in a book like this appreciating.

 

 

 

 

In the first Overstreet published in 1970 it looked like people would always be interested in Flash Gordon's first appearance in Four Color. I'm sure some people thought that people would "always be interested" in this book.

 

Yes, I think Spidey will outlast Flash Gordon, but my point is, you can never say ALWAYS when you are talking about investments.

 

The housing market ALWAYS goes up on a national basis. Remember that one? It might decline regionally, but never nationally.

 

When oil prices were $150, people said oil would hit $200 before it hit $100 again, and it would never be $50 again. Within a few months it touched a low of $33.

 

People use the justification of "it has never happened before" as the basis of an investment strategy. Just because it hasd not happened before does not mean it cannot happen.

 

You say TIME ITSELF is the reason for the price appreciations on AF 15. I would argue that the MOST important factor in the RECENT price appreciations has been the impact of the films, the influx of new collectors due to those films, the advent of CGC, the realization that high grade AF 15's are truly scarce, and the typical herd mentality of investors.

 

It is not TIME ITSELF that is the primary factor.

 

But those influences are already factored into the price, just like info is factored into a stock price. Yes, AF 15 will most likely keep going up in value, I agree, but eventually the pace of the price increases will slow down to a "normal" level.

 

Just like house prices did not rise at 25% per year forever, neither will high grade AF 15's

 

 

Point taken. I guess what I was trying to get across is that its unfair to compare Certain Key Comics to stocks when deciding how much to deversify or when to buy and sell.

 

Yes AF will cool off and the release of successful movies has caused a surge in price but I just cant see that books value taking a dive. Time is a constant predictable factor that will positively impact books like this.

 

When stocks take a dive an investor will try to unload as quick as possible. If AF's prices cool or remain stagnant I dont for see owners trying to unload them.

[steelhelmet]

My opinion, for pre-Robin Tec's is 4.0 or better with otherwise great appeal.Great appeal is no fading of color colors, Off-white or better, tanning covers or shadows at a very minimum or not at all, nice centering if possible, and a square cut. If the CGC grade is higher, your tolerance negative appeal factors could very well increase, but at a lesser extent for page quality and color fading. If all the appeal factors check, I wouldn't worry about holding back, just buy it.I'm talking about auction scenario here, and only in very general terms. Again my opinion for lowest grade, 4.0 but really depends on the book in question must be CGC blue, no notes, but an example of notes that are tolerable would be writing inside, other notes, I get into hot water here and there are other examples, would be tiny glue, can be overooked by some, but depends on the individual.

[steelhelmet]

If you're looking at a lower grade Tec 1 or Batman 1, as a Batman fan probably the Bat 1 would make you happier. A Batman 1, with 20K I would go for the highest grade copy in that range and happily overspend 5-10K if it means being happy with the book and do the rest on installments if possible or necessary. With Tec 1, a much rarer book unrestored, 1.0 or 2.0 depending on the eye appeal, it's your call on what's acceptable.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

ROM #1 in 9.0 by the boatload

WOW!Iforgot about that comics exsistance!!

Ithink I have #!,3&maybe9 somewhere ,now I must go look!!

ROM,WOW!!

Maybe it's with my Dakota North collection

Hey man, don't you be dissin' old ROM!!!

 

One of my early day favorites!

[comicwiz]

IMHO, page quality, while important, needs to be looked at within the context of the overall production valuess of the book in consideration. Specifically, when we look at using proper archivally safe methods of storage, its a no-brainer to go with White Pages if we are referring to a title like New Teen Titans printed on Baxter paper and printed during a time with a high availability of products and widespread acceptance of using archivally safe storage practices. It would therefore be unfair to present within the same discussion an example of a book with Cream to Off-White page quality from the Golden Age, which was printed on cheaper newsprint grade paper quality.

 

I would modify the above list slightly by putting unrestored, untrimmed comics sharing the first spot. With regard to the point on CGC graded books, the bar code/serial number is one of the most significant tools (the census being the other) which gives the buyer an opportunity to discover defects not always observable by a scan of the front and back covers. Following this logic, I would have to say rust migration or any hint of rust on the staples would rank higher (#3) than PQ (#4) and still keeping to this idea of applying variables such as age against material quality and conservation methods within the context of your assessment.

 

Such a sweet post (thumbs u

 

 

[SilverRich]

invest in 90's moderns, they are already pushing 20 years old. Great value there

 

I completely disagree with this.

 

Any book from Marvel or DC from the 90's will NEVER be rare, not even in 9.8

 

And as soon as prices start to rise, more books get slabbed, and prices fall again. There will be constant price suppresion.

 

Take a look at some of the comic lots being sold by NEATSTUFF on ebay. They sell comics by the TRACTOR TRAILER load from the 1990's

 

How many potential 9.8's do you think are in an 18-wheeler?

 

That's why prices are never going to the moon on Marvel & DC 1990's stuff.

 

 

 

 

I think that post was a weak attempt to be funny...you needn't have justified it with a response. That pirate guy was just being a wise azz.

[Dale Roberts]

To further my point here, and add some pics to this thread, "investing" in comics can be simple, and I think it is in this case, too. The guy has $20k, and likes Batman. (he likes Green Lantern and Daredevil too, but we are talking about investing, so I am only focusing on Batman, for obvious reasons) Sticking to the universal investment winning formula of unrestored, decent PQ, and CGC graded........IMO, you can't go wrong with any of these 3 books, which have sold fairly recently in the $17,000 - $19,500 range. (each )

 

......and if he can buy one from Dale Roberts or Richard Evans, then it's even sweeter

 

any of these 3 offer:

 

single book

nice PQ

unrestored

CGC graded

mainstream issue ( not esoteric )

major / popular Superhero

high demand

Classic Cover

one of his favorite characters

max book for the money invested

 

3 great books, however, I would diversify further than just Batman if it were my money. Of the 3 books, the 31 is currently the hottest, so you are going to pay the highest on that book. Will it continue to escalate, probably but who knows.

 

I do know this, there is a ton of room for Daredevil #1 to go up, and if they every fix that movie franchise, then this book will take off, and even if they don't, it is still a good investment at this time.

 

Personally, I would pick up Batman #121, DD #1, Showcase #22 , Green Lantern #1, (all in 8.0 or better), Neal Adams Batmans in very high grade(9.4 - 9.6), Green Lantern #76 (9.4 or better), Daredevil #16 & 17 (9.4 or better). GA Batmans and Detectives with key villain appearances, such as 1st Two Face, Joker covers, Catwoman covers, Detective 140, 142, 211 come to mind.

 

Thanks for the plug by the way.

[SilverRich]

Wow, this is really interesting stuff. Thanks, all of you! I'm taking tons of notes here, thanks again. I can't tell you how helpful you all have been.

 

I'm especially interested in this idea that one of you said to use the lump sum to purchase one good book. Any more advice along those lines?

 

 

It might be hard to spend 20k on an Amazing Fantasy 15 now - but imagine what that book will be selling for in 20 years...

 

If you have 20k cash to spend right now, spend it all on one book IMHO - or put 20k down on a 50k book and pay off the rest in TP.

 

 

With all due respect, for $20K he'll be lucky to get an AF 15 in 6.0 right now. IMHO

[Dark Knight]

Wow, this is really interesting stuff. Thanks, all of you! I'm taking tons of notes here, thanks again. I can't tell you how helpful you all have been.

 

I'm especially interested in this idea that one of you said to use the lump sum to purchase one good book. Any more advice along those lines?

 

 

It might be hard to spend 20k on an Amazing Fantasy 15 now - but imagine what that book will be selling for in 20 years...

 

If you have 20k cash to spend right now, spend it all on one book IMHO - or put 20k down on a 50k book and pay off the rest in TP.

 

 

With all due respect, for $20K he'll be lucky to get an AF 15 in 6.0 right now. IMHO

 

I think he can be able to snag an AF #15 for even less than $20k in 6.0 right now. 6.5's though are selling for $25k and up

[Pirate]

invest in 90's moderns, they are already pushing 20 years old. Great value there

 

I completely disagree with this.

 

Any book from Marvel or DC from the 90's will NEVER be rare, not even in 9.8

 

And as soon as prices start to rise, more books get slabbed, and prices fall again. There will be constant price suppresion.

 

Take a look at some of the comic lots being sold by NEATSTUFF on ebay. They sell comics by the TRACTOR TRAILER load from the 1990's

 

How many potential 9.8's do you think are in an 18-wheeler?

 

That's why prices are never going to the moon on Marvel & DC 1990's stuff.

 

 

 

 

I think that post was a weak attempt to be funny...you needn't have justified it with a response. That pirate guy was just being a wise azz.

 

You really live in the basement, don't you? Come on admit it....

[paperheart]

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=24412

 

buy an 80% ownership in this one

[Matches Malone-migration]

Again, thanks so much, it's great to see this thread grow and have my investment strategy take shape. Dinner and drinks on me if we are ever at a con together!

 

From reading around on this site, it seems that the following sites are trustworthy places to find my bigger-ticket books:

 

Dale Roberts on eBay

Heritage

Pedigree

HouseOfComics

ComicLink

 

Am I leaving anyone else out? I'm probably going to be going through one of these outlets, as I've talked to every dealer near me and their response to the books that I ask about are "I wish!"