What do you think the ComicConnect Action #1 will sell for?

[Aman619]

the best cels were those that were matted and framed with the original painted bkgnds. Coupled with a key scene (Snow White, witch offering the apple etc) were valued like key GA on HG. Al thought he was making an astute trade up.

 

[Crowzilla]

Here's what I was thinking of, a separate static background piece, which each cel would then be filmed over. From the Heritage auction description:

"The domineering puppeteer Stromboli attempts to placate the little wooden boy, Pinocchio, in this multi-layered hand inked and hand painted cel with original watercolor background."

 

That Heritage result was an exceptional one in today's market. It most likely would have been a six-figure piece if it had come up for sale in the 1988-1992 time period. I sold a Pinocchio in 1992 with no other figures or background for the low five-figures, and the background can be 2/3 or more of the value on a set-up like this. I remember at one auction, a background alone of the dwarf's organ from Snow White brought over $60,000.

 

The record holder though was when Peter Merolo sold a set-up from the Orphan's Benefit for an incredible $450,000 (and this is 1989-1990 time frame).

"Key" cels and set-ups from the first color Mickey shorts were/are considered the Holy Grails and you couldn't touch anything from that time period for under six figures.

Collecting was super-hot at the time, and it was known in the industry that people like Russ Cochran and Stu Reisbord were buying for Lucas, Spielberg, and Michael Jackson.

 

[kimik]

To get things back on track here, what is the consensus grade estimate on this book? I saw a couple of posts last week mentioning that at 6.0 the book is probably graded to high. What kind of an effect will the rust on the staples have on the end value?

[rob_react]

Personally, I'm comfortable with the book at FN.

[tth2]

Here's what I was thinking of, a separate static background piece, which each cel would then be filmed over. From the Heritage auction description:

"The domineering puppeteer Stromboli attempts to placate the little wooden boy, Pinocchio, in this multi-layered hand inked and hand painted cel with original watercolor background."

 

That Heritage result was an exceptional one in today's market. It most likely would have been a six-figure piece if it had come up for sale in the 1988-1992 time period. I sold a Pinocchio in 1992 with no other figures or background for the low five-figures, and the background can be 2/3 or more of the value on a set-up like this. I remember at one auction, a background alone of the dwarf's organ from Snow White brought over $60,000.

Actually, the piece hasn't sold yet. It's in the current Heritage February auction. I'm actually thinking of going after a few of the nicer cels that come with the original background. After all, isn't Pinocchio often considered the zenith of Disney animation?

 

Hearing what the prices used to be (which are really staggering) is making me think that at current prices these might not be such bad pick-ups.

 

Collecting was super-hot at the time, and it was known in the industry that people like Russ Cochran and Stu Reisbord were buying for Lucas, Spielberg, and Michael Jackson.

Do you know whether the celebs still have most of their acquisitions or have they dumped them?

[Crowzilla]

Actually, the piece hasn't sold yet. It's in the current Heritage February auction. I'm actually thinking of going after a few of the nicer cels that come with the original background. After all, isn't Pinocchio often considered the zenith of Disney animation?

Hearing what the prices used to be (which are really staggering) is making me think that at current prices these might not be such bad pick-ups.

 

Ah, it is being offered again. It originally "sold" in the Sumer 2007 Heritage Auction - Pinocchio Set-up. Pinocchio is definitely considered the high point in Disney animation, but cels are much more common from Pinocchio then Dumbo, Snow White, and the early shorts. Snow White certainly leads the field in pricing for features, and surprisingly B&W Mickey's are usually available for less than early color Mickeys.

 

I would definitely advise studying up before you make any purchases though - just like with comics, there is a lot of undisclosed restoration, backgrounds that may be from Courvoisier instead of a production background, etc. But having said that, I think any Disney fan (especially one like you) would love having a nice cel set-up, or even some pencil sketches done by the animators (which Walt always felt were the true art). Personally I enjoy the movie-posters even more and Heritage has some very nice ones in their upcoming auction.

 

 

 

Do you know whether the celebs still have most of their acquisitions or have they dumped them?

 

As far as I know, they are still sitting on them - but really have acquired the pieces they wanted and are not buying anymore. Same for Mike Glad and Merolo. So once you removed the heaviest hitters from the equation, the prices fell to current levels.

[adamstrange]

Actually, the piece hasn't sold yet. It's in the current Heritage February auction. I'm actually thinking of going after a few of the nicer cels that come with the original background. After all, isn't Pinocchio often considered the zenith of Disney animation?

As an animated movie, it's considered the best and you have tremendous cultural significance and nostalgia (When You Wish Upon Star is still the Disney corp theme song). But other individual sequences like the Mushroom dance from Fantasia are still considered "the best" in terms of actual animation, though they won't look near as nice on the wall as the piece you are considering.

[Aman619]

Here's what I was thinking of, a separate static background piece, which each cel would then be filmed over. From the Heritage auction description:

"The domineering puppeteer Stromboli attempts to placate the little wooden boy, Pinocchio, in this multi-layered hand inked and hand painted cel with original watercolor background."

 

That Heritage result was an exceptional one in today's market. It most likely would have been a six-figure piece if it had come up for sale in the 1988-1992 time period. I sold a Pinocchio in 1992 with no other figures or background for the low five-figures, and the background can be 2/3 or more of the value on a set-up like this. I remember at one auction, a background alone of the dwarf's organ from Snow White brought over $60,000.

Actually, the piece hasn't sold yet. It's in the current Heritage February auction. I'm actually thinking of going after a few of the nicer cels that come with the original background. After all, isn't Pinocchio often considered the zenith of Disney animation?

 

Hearing what the prices used to be (which are really staggering) is making me think that at current prices these might not be such bad pick-ups.

 

Collecting was super-hot at the time, and it was known in the industry that people like Russ Cochran and Stu Reisbord were buying for Lucas, Spielberg, and Michael Jackson.

Do you know whether the celebs still have most of their acquisitions or have they dumped them?

 

I admire your zeal for them. They are definitely cool. But arent you a bit timid to go after pieces whose values have come way off their highs? Can you expect them to return? Seems the pool was pretty thin, and hasnt grown even with the exscitement and prices paid 15 years ago.

[tb]

Here's what I was thinking of, a separate static background piece, which each cel would then be filmed over. From the Heritage auction description:

"The domineering puppeteer Stromboli attempts to placate the little wooden boy, Pinocchio, in this multi-layered hand inked and hand painted cel with original watercolor background."

 

That Heritage result was an exceptional one in today's market. It most likely would have been a six-figure piece if it had come up for sale in the 1988-1992 time period. I sold a Pinocchio in 1992 with no other figures or background for the low five-figures, and the background can be 2/3 or more of the value on a set-up like this. I remember at one auction, a background alone of the dwarf's organ from Snow White brought over $60,000.

Actually, the piece hasn't sold yet. It's in the current Heritage February auction. I'm actually thinking of going after a few of the nicer cels that come with the original background. After all, isn't Pinocchio often considered the zenith of Disney animation?

 

Hearing what the prices used to be (which are really staggering) is making me think that at current prices these might not be such bad pick-ups.

 

Collecting was super-hot at the time, and it was known in the industry that people like Russ Cochran and Stu Reisbord were buying for Lucas, Spielberg, and Michael Jackson.

Do you know whether the celebs still have most of their acquisitions or have they dumped them?

 

I admire your zeal for them. They are definitely cool. But arent you a bit timid to go after pieces whose values have come way off their highs? Can you expect them to return? Seems the pool was pretty thin, and hasnt grown even with the exscitement and prices paid 15 years ago.

 

Good luck, tth2. I agree they are very cool but I'd get some input on how they'd fare in your climate(?). I've been concerned about what would happen if the air conditioning broke on a hot July day here in California.

[G.A.tor]

To get things back on track here, what is the consensus grade estimate on this book? I saw a couple of posts last week mentioning that at 6.0 the book is probably graded to high. What kind of an effect will the rust on the staples have on the end value?

whether a cgc 5.5 or a cgc 6.0 or whatever, it is in the "FN" range and on a book like this, that is consensus enough... in other words, no one is saying it is a vg+ and no one is saying it is a VF- ,so "FN" is pretty accurate IMO

[tth2]

Actually, the piece hasn't sold yet. It's in the current Heritage February auction. I'm actually thinking of going after a few of the nicer cels that come with the original background. After all, isn't Pinocchio often considered the zenith of Disney animation?

Hearing what the prices used to be (which are really staggering) is making me think that at current prices these might not be such bad pick-ups.

 

Ah, it is being offered again. It originally "sold" in the Sumer 2007 Heritage Auction - Pinocchio Set-up. Pinocchio is definitely considered the high point in Disney animation, but cels are much more common from Pinocchio then Dumbo, Snow White, and the early shorts. Snow White certainly leads the field in pricing for features, and surprisingly B&W Mickey's are usually available for less than early color Mickeys.

 

I would definitely advise studying up before you make any purchases though - just like with comics, there is a lot of undisclosed restoration, backgrounds that may be from Courvoisier instead of a production background, etc. But having said that, I think any Disney fan (especially one like you) would love having a nice cel set-up, or even some pencil sketches done by the animators (which Walt always felt were the true art). Personally I enjoy the movie-posters even more and Heritage has some very nice ones in their upcoming auction.

 

 

 

Do you know whether the celebs still have most of their acquisitions or have they dumped them?

 

As far as I know, they are still sitting on them - but really have acquired the pieces they wanted and are not buying anymore. Same for Mike Glad and Merolo. So once you removed the heaviest hitters from the equation, the prices fell to current levels.

Wow, it sold for $33,600 back in 2007! Not exactly the cheap bargain I was looking for, assuming it sells in the same ballpark again.

 

Thanks for all the great info, Sean. I will indeed need to do more research on this area before taking the plunge.

[tth2]

I admire your zeal for them. They are definitely cool. But arent you a bit timid to go after pieces whose values have come way off their highs? Can you expect them to return? Seems the pool was pretty thin, and hasnt grown even with the exscitement and prices paid 15 years ago.

Wow, do I really come off that mercenary in my approach to collecting?

 

Not everything I buy has to be with investment return in mind. I was just thinking about buying some Disney cels because they would be really cool to have framed and displayed in my daughter`s room, and if I could pick up a nice piece for under $10K that would be ideal. That Pinocchio piece really is spectacular although if it`s going to sell in the $30K range again it`s going to be out of my price range.

[tth2]

Good luck, tth2. I agree they are very cool but I'd get some input on how they'd fare in your climate(?). I've been concerned about what would happen if the air conditioning broke on a hot July day here in California.

Well, I`ve managed to preserve my comic collection pretty well out here...

[adamstrange]

Good luck, tth2. I agree they are very cool but I'd get some input on how they'd fare in your climate(?). I've been concerned about what would happen if the air conditioning broke on a hot July day here in California.

Well, I`ve managed to preserve my comic collection pretty well out here...

 

Cells are more fragile than comics so I would suggest looking at their proper care and handling.

[Aman619]

really? they are watercolor/guache on paper and ink on acetate. Why would they be more susceptible to warm climate than any other works on paper?

 

And, werent these particular 70 year old Disney classic cels created in an un air-conditioned shop on Dopey Drive in the San Fernando Valley? Id think they are accustomed more to dry heat than humid A/C modern interior climates.

[Aman619]

I admire your zeal for them. They are definitely cool. But arent you a bit timid to go after pieces whose values have come way off their highs? Can you expect them to return? Seems the pool was pretty thin, and hasnt grown even with the exscitement and prices paid 15 years ago.

Wow, do I really come off that mercenary in my approach to collecting?

 

Not everything I buy has to be with investment return in mind. I was just thinking about buying some Disney cels because they would be really cool to have framed and displayed in my daughter`s room, and if I could pick up a nice piece for under $10K that would be ideal. That Pinocchio piece really is spectacular although if it`s going to sell in the $30K range again it`s going to be out of my price range.

 

 

no. from where I sit youve been pretty astute. SO much so that the comics buys you've made have all worked out... IMO these cels while cool and historic just may have seen their day.... or, just may not be a bargain. Back to the thoughts in teh thread, the general consensus in comics is that Al would have been okay had he not chased so hard after animation cels. Id hate for you to follow his lead.

 

 

[Aman619]

Good luck, tth2. I agree they are very cool but I'd get some input on how they'd fare in your climate(?). I've been concerned about what would happen if the air conditioning broke on a hot July day here in California.

Well, I`ve managed to preserve my comic collection pretty well out here...

 

Cells are more fragile than comics so I would suggest looking at their proper care and handling.

 

not to be contrary, but why more fragile? If anything, they are less subject to the kinds of value shattering damage that comics can suffer! Being one of a kind, a little ding etc doesnt affect the value whereas a little bent corner kills a HG book. And, arent most of the classic examples TTH is talking about already mated, framed or archived in protective sheaths? Id think so.

[adamstrange]

Good luck, tth2. I agree they are very cool but I'd get some input on how they'd fare in your climate(?). I've been concerned about what would happen if the air conditioning broke on a hot July day here in California.

Well, I`ve managed to preserve my comic collection pretty well out here...

 

Cells are more fragile than comics so I would suggest looking at their proper care and handling.

 

not to be contrary, but why more fragile? If anything, they are less subject to the kinds of value shattering damage that comics can suffer! Being one of a kind, a little ding etc doesnt affect the value whereas a little bent corner kills a HG book. And, arent most of the classic examples TTH is talking about already mated, framed or archived in protective sheaths? Id think so.

 

I thought the acetate was not particularly stable but I'm not an expert so I'm happy to be corrected. Always better to be safe than sorry in protection of an expensive item.

[action1kid]

I am also a vintage cel collector in addition to comics and in my humble opinion cels are more delicate than comicbooks.They are very prone to chipping with even the slightest curving of the cel.extremely delicate when it has 40 or more years added to it.I have even had cels chip while in there protective sleeves without bending.This happened to me with a key cel for Mr Magoos Christmas carol piece.

Anyway, that is just this mans opinion and experience with them.Anything can happen once that paint gets delicate.

[Bronty]

Interesting! As dried-out paint on bendy plastic, that makes a lot of sense. Too bad.