WATCHMEN THREAD

[Comicopolis]

Grant Morrison has written some outstanding stuff, including off the top of my head

 

- The Coyote Gospel

- Rock of Ages

- WE3

- All-Star Superman

 

 

He's still no Alan Moore.

[Aman619]

So why would the Watchmen be consider THAT important of a comic? If you break it down, yes it does speak to certain fears (namely the state of the world/fear of war), but none of the characters got their own book and the Watchmen series itself didn't continue after the 12 issues. Also it took 20 years for the movie to come out, which the hype of that movie was the only reason I read the GN in the first place. So viewed in a purely "comic book" sense, it feels like it had its moment and just died there.

 

Because it helped change the way in which comic book superhero stories were written. It was multi-layered and complex and the characters that people liked were generally not nice people and didn't behave in the way in which traditional superheroes behaved, or were supposed to behave.

 

Then I do see the relevance, if the series did shake things up in the comic world and heroes became nastier in certain ways not done before.

 

It's really hard to project yourself back to the mindset of 1985 before Watchmen was published. Alan Moore had spent the last few years taking American commercial comics to new places in his Saga of the Swamp Thing revamp. His editor (and Swamp Thing creator) Len Wein said that when he read Moore's scripts, he realized he (Wein) had become obsolete as a comic book writer.

 

With Watchmen, Moore took that approach to super-heroes. It was partly the popularization of the "grim & gritty" 1980s style, but that style also owed a lot to Miller's Dark Knight (and earlier independent comics examples like American Flagg and Nexus). I think the main point that set Watchmen apart was that it was a serious, uncompromised attempt to tell an unapologetic super-hero story for adults, with all that meant. So yes, you had the grim & gritty violence, the ambiguous morals, the undisguised sexual fetish angle to dressing up in costumes and beating people up. But you also had a serious approach to the form & style of "real" literature, re-invented for comics: for example, the parallels between the main story and the Black Freighter sub-text, the recurring motif of raindrops and puddles, the conceit of each cover actually being the first panel of each story, and other formal tricks like the first half of the "Fearful Symmetry" chapter being the mirror image of the 2nd half.

 

So to say that Watchmen didn't spawn a sequel, or spin off other series is missing the point-- it is because the series is a completely-realized 12-chapter novel, never to be added to, that makes it special. (thumbs u

 

 

freakingly well said!

[Aman619]

WATCHMEN today reads like just an above average comic story. But back in 1986?? it was a horse of a different color. AND, remember we only got to take it one small bite at a time! it was 12 monthly issues, so we had a whole 30 days to reread it, try to digest it, and even read the text pieces looking for clues and ANT bit of story to hold us over.....

 

 

and, it read like a comic from another world it was so much deeper and better than all the DC and Marvel stuff of the day. And it affected nearly every superhero writer since.

 

Moore had a string of work that upended each character he touched. Swampie, Superman.

 

 

and no, they dont own WATCHMEN. They only had some kind of handshake deal that DC would never do a sequel or use the characters again w/0 asking him. If the film does a billion dollars (which looks a bit impossible as of today) I would expect them to break that promise.

[Bonds25]

WATCHMEN today reads like just an above average comic story. But back in 1986?? it was a horse of a different color. AND, remember we only got to take it one small bite at a time! it was 12 monthly issues, so we had a whole 30 days to reread it, try to digest it, and even read the text pieces looking for clues and ANT bit of story to hold us over.....

 

I just re-read Watchmen for the first time in 10 years, and I'd say it's the best comic book I've ever read.

[s-man]

WATCHMEN today reads like just an above average comic story. But back in 1986?? it was a horse of a different color. AND, remember we only got to take it one small bite at a time! it was 12 monthly issues, so we had a whole 30 days to reread it, try to digest it, and even read the text pieces looking for clues and ANT bit of story to hold us over.....

 

I just re-read Watchmen for the first time in 10 years, and I'd say it's the best comic book I've ever read.

 

You need to read more books

[Comicopolis]

I love Watchmen but it's not even the best thing that Alan Moore has written, never mind the best comic ever written.

[Bonds25]

I love Watchmen but it's not even the best thing that Alan Moore has written, never mind the best comic ever written.

 

Which is the best in your opinion?

[SuperBird]

Grant Morrison has written some outstanding stuff, including off the top of my head

 

- The Coyote Gospel

- Rock of Ages

- WE3

- All-Star Superman

 

 

I'm a huge Morrison fan, but Moore is a level above. The main difference between them is that Morrison is somewhat impatient, and just has so many ideas, that each one comes at you kind of half-conceptualized at light speed.

 

I think his Invisibles is as close as he ever got to Moore's level. I also loved loved loved Seven Soldiers.

[SuperBird]

I love Watchmen but it's not even the best thing that Alan Moore has written, never mind the best comic ever written.

 

Which is the best in your opinion?

 

I like his Swamp Thing run better. Watchmen never grabbed me emotionally the way ST did.

[Zonker]

Grant Morrison has written some outstanding stuff, including off the top of my head

 

- The Coyote Gospel

- Rock of Ages

- WE3

- All-Star Superman

 

 

I'm a huge Morrison fan, but Moore is a level above. The main difference between them is that Morrison is somewhat impatient, and just has so many ideas, that each one comes at you kind of half-conceptualized at light speed.

 

 

No argument there. I was simply responding to the earlier post:

 

Grant Morrison is *spoon*.

[Comicopolis]

I love Watchmen but it's not even the best thing that Alan Moore has written, never mind the best comic ever written.

 

Which is the best in your opinion?

 

Miracleman

V for Vendetta

Swamp Thing

From Hell

[nmtg9]

Oh Andrew i have to disagree. only Miracleman comes close to Watchmen.

 

Watchmen is the biggest story he has ever written. There is sooooo much to it.

 

i may be biased towards Watchmen because i was 15 when it came out and i read it but the universe he created is so big for such a small space. Brilliant work.

[Comicopolis]

Oh Andrew i have to disagree. only Miracleman comes close to Watchmen.

 

Watchmen is the biggest story he has ever written. There is sooooo much to it.

 

i may be biased towards Watchmen because i was 15 when it came out and i read it but the universe he created is so big for such a small space. Brilliant work.

 

Don't get me wrong I love Watchmen and all its multi-layers but nothing comes close to Miracleman for me. I was 16 when it was published in Warrior - Marvelman!!! - and the way in which he re-invented a 1950's character, which was originally based on Fawcett's Cpt Marvel, to be a hero for the modern age were skills that he transferred to Watchmen.

 

Reading V in its original black & white, again in the short-lived but fantastic Warrior, holds more oomph for me.

 

As far as being the biggest story that he has ever written: From Hell has much more depth and layers than Watchmen.

 

Both Miracleman & V are set in England, as is From Hell and it doesn't feature any costumed characters, so they never get the recognition that Watchmen does.

[camera73]

For those who haven't given them a chance as yet - try Top 10, Tom Strong, Promethea, and the TPB collection of his misc. DC stories.

 

I thought League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was okay, and the movie was just a horror.

[Comicopolis]

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie is OK as a bit of fun but bears no relation to the comics at all.

[rodan57]

I love Watchmen but it's not even the best thing that Alan Moore has written, never mind the best comic ever written.

 

Which is the best in your opinion?

 

Labeling the best is like the all-time top movie or song.

 

How about some very fine work that makes you realise the potential of the comic book.

 

I might suggest Will Eisner's A Contract with God (1978). Or perhaps, Art Spiegelman's Maus, written between 1980 and 1991. The two parts are "My Father Bleeds History" (1986) and "And Here My Troubles Began"(1991).

 

 

[kidcolt]

Maus is one of my favorite stories ever written, simply fantastic books.

[Comicopolis]

Maus is one of my favorite stories ever written, simply fantastic books.