Advice on an Avengers 4 i bought off ebay...

[ComicKing-migration]

Im sorry...just new to all of this..trying to make sense...I understand if someone has a RAW copy of a book with an old cgc label..BUT....to not disclose ALL restoration is wrong...and evidently CGC stated there was more going on...But, how common is it to have a book come back from CGC re submitted so many points off?? I mean a 9.4 to a 9.0?? Is cgc that RELATIVE? If so, how can we trust them?

 

It's extremely common in an art as subjective as grading. Their grade is an opinion, and opinions are subject to change and revision.

You see a beautiful woman and think, "that's the most gorgeous woman on the planet". Then a week later, you see a woman "who blows her away, what was I thinking?".

CGC 7.5s later are slabbed 9.2, and vice versa, even restored and unrestored comics changing label colors on consecutive submisions.

You might grade a comic VF+ in 2007 and in 2009 look at it and think, "this comic is gorgeous, what did I see to not give it a NM-?" Or , "what a dreck, I graded this VF+??"

It has nothing to do with dishonesty or irresponsibility. CGC is above board and does gives 100% all the time, like many graders who sell comics. It's just that a humans, opinion change, and grade opinions are one of these subjective things subject to revision and change through time and a second consideration.

Ergo the motto, "Buy the book, not the label".

 

So is this what lets you go to sleep at night when you sell a CGC graded 7.5 as a 9.2?

 

I bought it as a raw 9.4 in a misgraded 7.5 slab. It' gorgeous.

 

And I imagine that I'm sleeping as well as any seller who ever cracked a CGC 7.5, resubbed it for a 9.2 or 9.4, and resold it for 10 times what they paid, because he recognized that it was undergraded.

 

And this is why you are hated. Just remember that. Cracking out mid graded CGC and reselling them as high grade comics is ethically wrong. I know you can't see that, but it is.

 

Since when is 7.5 midgrade? Since this thread started? 5.0/6.0 are midgrades.

[Annihilus]

.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Im sorry...just new to all of this..trying to make sense...I understand if someone has a RAW copy of a book with an old cgc label..BUT....to not disclose ALL restoration is wrong...and evidently CGC stated there was more going on...But, how common is it to have a book come back from CGC re submitted so many points off?? I mean a 9.4 to a 9.0?? Is cgc that RELATIVE? If so, how can we trust them?

 

It's extremely common in an art as subjective as grading. Their grade is an opinion, and opinions are subject to change and revision.

You see a beautiful woman and think, "that's the most gorgeous woman on the planet". Then a week later, you see a woman "who blows her away, what was I thinking?".

CGC 7.5s later are slabbed 9.2, and vice versa, even restored and unrestored comics changing label colors on consecutive submisions.

You might grade a comic VF+ in 2007 and in 2009 look at it and think, "this comic is gorgeous, what did I see to not give it a NM-?" Or , "what a dreck, I graded this VF+??"

It has nothing to do with dishonesty or irresponsibility. CGC is above board and does gives 100% all the time, like many graders who sell comics. It's just that a humans, opinion change, and grade opinions are one of these subjective things subject to revision and change through time and a second consideration.

Ergo the motto, "Buy the book, not the label".

 

So is this what lets you go to sleep at night when you sell a CGC graded 7.5 as a 9.2?

 

I bought it as a raw 9.4 in a misgraded 7.5 slab. It' gorgeous.

 

And I imagine that I'm sleeping as well as any seller who ever cracked a CGC 7.5, resubbed it for a 9.2 or 9.4, and resold it for 10 times what they paid, because he recognized that it was undergraded.

 

And this is why you are hated. Just remember that. Cracking out mid graded CGC and reselling them as high grade comics is ethically wrong. I know you can't see that, but it is.

 

Since when is 7.5 midgrade? Since this thread started? 5.0/6.0 are midgrades.

 

On a Silver Age book?

 

Oh, since around the time the giraffes disembarked from the Ark. But then you knew that, Danny, because that's how long you've been ing comic buyers over. (thumbs u

 

And a 7.5 to a 9.4?

 

Not without 'manipulation and enhancement'...something you've also been peddling since time immemorial. (thumbs u

[comicgrinder]

Im sorry...just new to all of this..trying to make sense...I understand if someone has a RAW copy of a book with an old cgc label..BUT....to not disclose ALL restoration is wrong...and evidently CGC stated there was more going on...But, how common is it to have a book come back from CGC re submitted so many points off?? I mean a 9.4 to a 9.0?? Is cgc that RELATIVE? If so, how can we trust them?

 

It's extremely common in an art as subjective as grading. Their grade is an opinion, and opinions are subject to change and revision.

You see a beautiful woman and think, "that's the most gorgeous woman on the planet". Then a week later, you see a woman "who blows her away, what was I thinking?".

CGC 7.5s later are slabbed 9.2, and vice versa, even restored and unrestored comics changing label colors on consecutive submisions.

You might grade a comic VF+ in 2007 and in 2009 look at it and think, "this comic is gorgeous, what did I see to not give it a NM-?" Or , "what a dreck, I graded this VF+??"

It has nothing to do with dishonesty or irresponsibility. CGC is above board and does gives 100% all the time, like many graders who sell comics. It's just that a humans, opinion change, and grade opinions are one of these subjective things subject to revision and change through time and a second consideration.

Ergo the motto, "Buy the book, not the label".

 

So is this what lets you go to sleep at night when you sell a CGC graded 7.5 as a 9.2?

 

I bought it as a raw 9.4 in a misgraded 7.5 slab. It' gorgeous.

 

And I imagine that I'm sleeping as well as any seller who ever cracked a CGC 7.5, resubbed it for a 9.2 or 9.4, and resold it for 10 times what they paid, because he recognized that it was undergraded.

 

And this is why you are hated. Just remember that. Cracking out mid graded CGC and reselling them as high grade comics is ethically wrong. I know you can't see that, but it is.

 

Since when is 7.5 midgrade? Since this thread started? 5.0/6.0 are midgrades.

 

On a Silver Age book?

 

Oh, since around the time the giraffes disembarked from the Ark. But then you knew that, Danny, because that's how long you've been ing comic buyers over. (thumbs u

 

And a 7.5 to a 9.4?

 

Not without 'manipulation and enhancement'...something you've also been peddling since time immemorial. (thumbs u

 

heres a recap on said book from the other thread......

 

 

 

wouldnt it behoove you to call and get the graders notes on a book like the GL40 and find out why it was graded a 7.5 instead of just disagreeing with the grade and cracking it out and listing it on ebay as 5-6 grades higher?

 

The # is 1-877-NM-COMIC

 

you might learn something....

heres the certification #

 

 

I have nothing to learn on this book. I know it inside and out, print dot by dot. It's gorgeous. It was gorgeous in and it's even more gorgeous out of the slab beause youcan fully appreiate the glos and incredible colors. If Church had SA, this would be on par with them.

 

Seriouly now. You have eyes. be honest. what do you really think of the condition based on the images?

that is exactly what I expected you to say. And I cant tell from just a FC scan of the book. It may have indentations, foxing, who knows until you ask CGC why they graded it a 7.5 will you fully understand why a VF- grade was assigned.

just got off the phone with CGC and got the graders notes...

 

light creasing BR FC, light creasing top right FC....looks like above conics code stamp on left side, and last but not least a...... 2 1/4 inch light stain on the BACK COVER botton edge !!!

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Is that popcorn really that good?

 

The drama makes it the best in the world

[General Zod]

I bought it as a raw 9.4 in a misgraded 7.5 slab. It' gorgeous.

 

And I imagine that I'm sleeping as well as any seller who ever cracked a CGC 7.5, resubbed it for a 9.2 or 9.4, and resold it for 10 times what they paid, because he recognized that it was undergraded.

 

I know that you've been banned and can't respond to this, but I'm pretty sure you can READ this thread.

 

If you are so certain it was a 9.4 sitting in a 7.5 slab, then you should have had the balls to back up your big mouth by resubmitting it to CGC, not cracking it out and advertising it as a 9.4 thinking that your personal grade trumps all when it comes to selling.

 

It's cool and all if you think a book is better than what it was graded for, but keep that to yourself when you're selling the dumb book. You are not an impartial party grading that book and those people buy from you because they want to take you at your word that it will be universally considered at or close to the grade you claim it to be.

 

You're a real jerk, plain and simple. May Karma come up and bite you more than 1,000 times for each time you've pulled this stunt.

[Boozad]

Im sorry...just new to all of this..trying to make sense...I understand if someone has a RAW copy of a book with an old cgc label..BUT....to not disclose ALL restoration is wrong...and evidently CGC stated there was more going on...But, how common is it to have a book come back from CGC re submitted so many points off?? I mean a 9.4 to a 9.0?? Is cgc that RELATIVE? If so, how can we trust them?

 

hahaha...old label said 9.4--color touch, cover cleaned...re submitted to cgc...9.0-staples cleaned, color touch, piece added...

 

There are a few possible explanations.

 

1 - Work was missed the first time the book was submitted (extremely doubtful)

2 - More work was caeeied out on the book after it had been cracked from the slab.

3 - The label never belonged to the book in the first place.

 

Things like this happen unfortunately, it's no real conspiracy. Just a possible rip-off.

But you're getting your money back, so I can't see who you're venting at here, CGC or the seller?

 

EDIT: I never noticed there were two pages to the thread and didn't read it all

[LordRahl]

hahaha...old label said 9.4--color touch, cover cleaned...re submitted to cgc...9.0-staples cleaned, color touch, piece added...

 

Since it seems that the thread has been de-railed by Hammer's prosecutors. The original poster ran into another scam artist on ebay. Marvelseller. He likes to crack and resell restored books and crack and resell unrestored books at much higher grades. Sounds like Robojo/Keys et al but it's a different guy, although in all fairness I think Robojo really does disclose resto on his books these days. Marvelseller uses a similar business model. I would bet serious money that the 9.4 label belonged to a different book. He cracked a resored 9.4 with minimal work and sold it along with a 9.0 with extensive work. CGC would not miss added pieces.

[SilverRich]

Wait a sec...is Marvel seller the same as Robojo?

 

I though Marvelseller was another guy...maybe by the name of Paul Smith...??

 

 

You are absolutely correct, Roy. Marvelseller is a guy named Paul Smith and he's a shyster of the 1st degree. He's very "good" with a camera...if you know what I mean.

 

He was my first big eBay purchase/rip-off/lesson.

[DKeeneman]

Im sorry...just new to all of this..trying to make sense...I understand if someone has a RAW copy of a book with an old cgc label..BUT....to not disclose ALL restoration is wrong...and evidently CGC stated there was more going on...But, how common is it to have a book come back from CGC re submitted so many points off?? I mean a 9.4 to a 9.0?? Is cgc that RELATIVE? If so, how can we trust them?

 

It's extremely common in an art as subjective as grading. Their grade is an opinion, and opinions are subject to change and revision.

You see a beautiful woman and think, "that's the most gorgeous woman on the planet". Then a week later, you see a woman "who blows her away, what was I thinking?".

CGC 7.5s later are slabbed 9.2, and vice versa, even restored and unrestored comics changing label colors on consecutive submisions.

You might grade a comic VF+ in 2007 and in 2009 look at it and think, "this comic is gorgeous, what did I see to not give it a NM-?" Or , "what a dreck, I graded this VF+??"

It has nothing to do with dishonesty or irresponsibility. CGC is above board and does gives 100% all the time, like many graders who sell comics. It's just that a humans, opinion change, and grade opinions are one of these subjective things subject to revision and change through time and a second consideration.

Ergo the motto, "Buy the book, not the label".

 

So is this what lets you go to sleep at night when you sell a CGC graded 7.5 as a 9.2?

 

I bought it as a raw 9.4 in a misgraded 7.5 slab. It' gorgeous.

 

And I imagine that I'm sleeping as well as any seller who ever cracked a CGC 7.5, resubbed it for a 9.2 or 9.4, and resold it for 10 times what they paid, because he recognized that it was undergraded.

 

I've just looked at this thread and cannot believe this statement: "I bought it as a raw 9.4 in a misgraded 7.5 slab."

 

How is that consistent with his other statement that everything he buys raw is sold raw and everything he buys slabbed is sold slabbed?

 

This was slabbed. Period. That is true, regardless of whether he thinks it was wrongly graded. You cannot buy it "as a raw 9.4 in a 7.5 slab." If you think it is undergraded, fine. Resubmit it for a higher grade and sell it as newly slabbed, or crack it out and sell it with disclosure of the prior grade with your pitch as to why it should have been higher, but don't claim you bought it "raw" based on your opinion on undergrading.

 

This is ridiculous.

[creepbox-migration]

Great...I guess i will end up with this book and out of 2k unless paypal can decide in my favor..and then what? Paul emails me that it is CGC's fault not his.

[jimjum12]

hahaha...old label said 9.4--color touch, cover cleaned...re submitted to cgc...9.0-staples cleaned, color touch, piece added...

 

Since it seems that the thread has been de-railed by Hammer's prosecutors. The original poster ran into another scam artist on ebay. Marvelseller. He likes to crack and resell restored books and crack and resell unrestored books at much higher grades. Sounds like Robojo/Keys et al but it's a different guy, although in all fairness I think Robojo really does disclose resto on his books these days. Marvelseller uses a similar business model. I would bet serious money that the 9.4 label belonged to a different book. He cracked a resored 9.4 with minimal work and sold it along with a 9.0 with extensive work. CGC would not miss added pieces.

 

That's what I'm thinking too. A 9.4 with slight resto would've been a good deal at that price....It's a shame that isn't what you got. CGC has been tighter lately but they wouldn't have missed the piece replacement. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Murph]

Based on his past history with this board alone, he is someone to stay very clear off.. Threads like this and this one should make any future buyer stay far far away. Based on this information, it wouldn't be out of the question that he got a restored 9.4 label and then used it on a lesser book with restoration.. who knows, maybe he restores them himself?

[jimjum12]

How's about a scan of the 9.0....it's hard for us to advise without one....time MAY bail you out on the 9.0, and if you wanted it for your collection anyway.....GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[creepbox-migration]

I will try to post one soon...