Someone catch me up on "New X-Men".....

[Illiterati-migration]

I read what you said, I just wanted specific examples and contrasts. You're making blanket statements and those are too easily dismissed, no?

 

Okay, I'll shoot some fish in a barrel:

 

USM vs. Bronze ASM (121-150)

 

The first is a watered-down, PC, retreaded, milksop of a book, which, albeit entertaining at times, pales in comparison to the adult themes, dialogue and subject matter of a Spider-man book put out 30 years ago.

 

One is fluff, whle the other has actual content.

 

 

You do realize, of course, that the exact same thing was said by comic readers in 1977 talking about Silver Age Spideys. Everything is better in hindsight. There were great books in the 70s, but there are equally great books now (and, conversely, there was a lot of [!@#%^&^] in the 70s and there's a lot of [!@#%^&^] now).

 

Here's a challenge. Send me an address and I'll zap you Mark Waid's FF run. If you don't like it, I'll give awe4one's $50 that I'm getting January 1 (bwah hah hah) to any charity you want. Weiringo's art is a little cartoony, but read the story! I'd put Waid's FF up against any issues in the entire 502 issue run.

 

Amen, Donut! That was a spectacular run by a guy who actually understands how to tell a story!

[rob_react]

[As you're more than happy to point you don't read new books and even if you did you would only read Marvels anyway, so I'm not sure how much weight your opinion of the state of comics today actually carries. Just a thought.

 

I don't BUY new comics, but I do borrow or purchase (cheap) TPBs here and there.

 

P.S. I was referring mostly to X-Men Marvels, since that's what the thread is referring to....

 

To the first point- okay, I'll bite. If you don't mind, since I'm curious, list the new books you've read in trade paperback form. Dazzle us with you up-to-the-minute knowledge of the state of comics in 2003 (soon to be 2004.)

 

To the second point- sorry, I just assumed you were making gross generalizations again.

[harveyfan323]

I was initially against the idea of the "Ultimate" books, but books like the X-Men are too convoluted to get into definitely make me understand why it's not a bad idea to just start over from scratch.

 

Having characters in your books that have been killed a couple of times and come back from the dead repeatedly just starts to seem absurd after awhile...same with the Scott and Jean relationship being off and on.

 

I will buy Silverstri's New X-Men run though because the artwork is great and the story is readable. I bought the entire Jim Lee Batman run just for the art, so I'm not above such things. They actually previewed the entire 22 page story of the first issue in the new Wizard. I wonder how this will affect sales of that issue?...I'll still probably buy it like a person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point, so maybe it won't hurt them much.

 

The story was actually quit readable...the new Beast still looks like a Disney character to me though and takes away from the story. But the Sentinel rocked...Silvestri is a very sharp artist...I liked his work on Cyberforce even though it was unreadable.

 

On the other hand, I don't totally understand the hype over Michael Turner. It looks like he is doing a lot of Superman covers and some interior work soon. His style is just too exaggerated for my tastes...not as obscenly so like Rob Liefeld, but it still doesn't work. But I guess I can see why some people like him.

 

But back to X-Men, I think Uncanny X-Men 138 was the last issue that I actually liked...I've never really been able to get into it since. Some of the early Ultimate X-Men issues were well done though..I have to admit.

[Freiherr]

I picked up on X-Men during the Onslaught crossover and enjoyed it up to “the 12” story. I bought a few more after that, but they adapted the books for the first movie and that killed it for me.

 

Wanting to start buying comics again, I checked the web to see what was going on. I saw that the Beast had changed into his new (stupid) form and was supposedly gay. Considering the Beast is arguably my favorite Marvel character, I was outraged (at both). Not that I have a problem with gay characters, but I see no reason to change one to gay status after years of them being straight.

 

Luckily I have other interests, I don’t know if I will start picking up new Marvel titles. I was never into Spider-man, DD or Punisher. Avengers, F4, Hulk, and Thunderbolts were excellent for a time, but either got stale or just sad when new writers joined. What is left?

 

[MMMarvel-migration]

The Beast went through another metamorphosis... and he's gay!

 

Holy [!@#%^&^]! When did this happen? Does it have something to do with Northstar (aka Ubers alter-ego)?

[joe_collector]

But USM was designed FOR kids. Was it not launched to get younger people to come to the market? You were talking about target audiences, no? I would say that the Bronze ASM was geared for the older crowd, thus the "more mature" themes.

 

I disagree with this, and market research has shown the average age of the comic book reader has risen significantly since the 70's, where the majority were school children. Sure, there were adults to cater to back then, but nothing on the scale that it is today.

 

Stan Lee used to say that although he knew he was writing for a predominantly younger crowd, he never took them for granted, and tried to keep the quality, themes and content of the mainstream titles to a more adult reading level.

 

I see the reverse happening today, and the mainstream Marvels are, for the most part, more fluff than substance. Much ado about nothing, and catering directly to the lowest common demoninator and maintaining the older reader through endless retcons and revamps, rather than good storytelling.

 

There are some good books out there, but very little on the Marvel side of things.

[MMMarvel-migration]

I read what you said, I just wanted specific examples and contrasts. You're making blanket statements and those are too easily dismissed, no?

 

Okay, I'll shoot some fish in a barrel:

 

USM vs. Bronze ASM (121-150)

 

The first is a watered-down, PC, retreaded, milksop of a book, which, albeit entertaining at times, pales in comparison to the adult themes, dialogue and subject matter of a Spider-man book put out 30 years ago.

 

One is fluff, whle the other has actual content.

 

 

You do realize, of course, that the exact same thing was said by comic readers in 1977 talking about Silver Age Spideys. Everything is better in hindsight. There were great books in the 70s, but there are equally great books now (and, conversely, there was a lot of [!@#%^&^] in the 70s and there's a lot of [!@#%^&^] now).

 

Here's a challenge. Send me an address and I'll zap you Mark Waid's FF run. If you don't like it, I'll give awe4one's $50 that I'm getting January 1 (bwah hah hah) to any charity you want. Weiringo's art is a little cartoony, but read the story! I'd put Waid's FF up against any issues in the entire 502 issue run.

 

I just finished reading FF Vol. 1 #s 1-10 and Spidey Vol. 1 #s 1-14. I give Stan Lee credit for being ground breaking and inventing the characters that have lasted 40+ years, but a lot of those early silver age stories are very amateur and make no sense in my opinion. I guess it is because he was shooting from his hip and it took a while to iron out all the wrinkles with all the characters powers and such. Or maybe it is because they were written for children and not adults back then so the stories didn't really need to make a lot of sense? In one of the early issues of Fantastic Four the Baxter building is sucked into space by some anti-gravity machine to burn up in the sun. At the end of the issue the FF beat Dr. Doom, but doesn't show the Baxter building going back to earth. Next issue Baxter building is back on earth and everything is normal with no explanation.

 

[HarrisonJohn]

Beast isn't gay. If I'm remembering right, he wasn't dealing well with breaking up with Trish Tilby, who was having a problem with the whole beastiality issue. So when she told him it was over, he tried to blow her off by being all "well I think I may be gay, so, you know, it's probably best..." and he just sort of stuck with that, rather than say he can't be with women because he's too far mutated, but both Scott and Emma (a telepath) have called him on his BS.

 

 

[HarrisonJohn]

A question and comment of my own.

 

Did anyone notice Silvestri drew Emma Frost to look exactly like Pamela Anderson?

 

Scott and Emma are at Jean's grave... is she dead again? Was that scene in the present/future/alternate? I take it Jean's fate along with Wolverine is still up in the air?

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Scott and Emma are at Jean's grave... is she dead again? Was that scene in the present/future/alternate? I take it Jean's fate along with Wolverine is still up in the air?

 

I seriously doubt that Marvel would kill off both Wolverine and Jean at the same time. Especially when Wolverine has 3 billion titles out...and if one of them survived, then both of them probably survived.

 

If I had to guess...there's no way Wolverine could survive the sun, so the Phoenix Force probably saved Jean who in turn saved Wolverine.

 

I am more interested in how this whole Jean/Phoenix Force thing pans out.

[Illiterati-migration]

Scott and Emma are at Jean's grave... is she dead again? Was that scene in the present/future/alternate? I take it Jean's fate along with Wolverine is still up in the air?

 

I seriously doubt that Marvel would kill off both Wolverine and Jean at the same time. Especially when Wolverine has 3 billion titles out...and if one of them survived, then both of them probably survived.

 

If I had to guess...there's no way Wolverine could survive the sun, so the Phoenix Force probably saved Jean who in turn saved Wolverine.

 

I am more interested in how this whole Jean/Phoenix Force thing pans out.

 

Have NONE of you read the book that just came out this week?!?!?