sad that CGC's new bronze pricing will turn even 9.8's into $$ losers

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

When I first started collecting (at the turn of the century)everyone knew how to grade.Im really shocked at the percent of people who cant grade to save their lives.

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. I don't think any more people used to grade in the past any better than now. What has happened though is CGC made collectors tighten up their grading. There's not as much of a spread for NM as before for example. So essentially what was generally regarded a NM in the past by the majority of collectors is now considered a VF. And if a seller has not tighten their grading over the years to reflect, then they will be seen as not being able to grade...

 

Jim

 

Jim,

 

I've got to disagree with you here. CGC grading standards (whatever they are) are much looser and today's NM is the old VF/NM.

 

Granted there was more blatant over-grading across the board in the past, but properly graded VF's of 1989 are now VF/NMs and NMs twenty years later.

 

--Gary

 

 

 

Gary, as somebody who was seriously collecting from probably '73 onwards, and part-time dealing from 1991, I can agree with this analysis. I've found that with the low and mid-grade stuff, I'm mainly in line with current CGC standards. However, when we got up to the VF/NM and better grades, I seem to be stricter in many cases, as 'top of the shop' for me was pretty much always 'NM', with nothing better. (thumbs u

 

In response to the title of the thread, I think it will be CGC's looser standards that kill 9.8s and not the rise in grading costs.

 

I recently got a mid 80s black cover G.I. Joe in 9.8 with three color breaking spine breaks. How does that happen? The book should've been a 9.0/9.2 at best.

 

Every modern I submit seems to come back a 9.8 as well. Not like I'm complaining, (well yes, I am), but eventually the supply is going to catch up to demand and prices will be severely impacted. Then everyone who paid a premium for a 9.8 will suddenly see they are as common as dirt, worth 25% of what they paid, and they'll throw their hands up in disgust and walk away from the hobby.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Every modern I submit seems to come back a 9.8 as well. Not like I'm complaining, (well yes, I am), but eventually the supply is going to catch up to demand and prices will be severely impacted. Then everyone who paid a premium for a 9.8 will suddenly see they are as common as dirt, worth 25% of what they paid, and they'll throw their hands up in disgust and walk away from the hobby.

 

 

Certainly a potential scenario. This end of the market is almost entirely propped up by faith. If that faith wanes...

[conditionfreak]

I have to agree. I have purchased may 9.8's from boardies this past year, and I have actually consulted with different boardies (via PM scans) asking their opinions on some of those books because I could not believe that CGC gave them 9.8 grades.

 

Seems to me that the easiest grade to hand out is the 9.8. Yet, CGC is missing the mark, IMHO, way too many times.

 

But then again. Maybe it is like sports. Is it a foul or a "ball", if the umpire or ref does not call it as such?

 

If CGC says it is a 9.8, then is it a 9.8? As far as the seller is concerned, almost always. As far as the buyer is concerned. Maybe, maybe not.

 

Buy the book and not the grade is what is said often. In most cases that is good advice. Sometimes it requires returning books to unhappy sellers, and it is not their fault. If CGC says it is a 9.8, how can one argue that it is not, after a purchase?

[Moondog]

I have to agree. I have purchased may 9.8's from boardies this past year, and I have actually consulted with different boardies (via PM scans) asking their opinions on some of those books because I could not believe that CGC gave them 9.8 grades.

 

Seems to me that the easiest grade to hand out is the 9.8. Yet, CGC is missing the mark, IMHO, way too many times.

 

But then again. Maybe it is like sports. Is it a foul or a "ball", if the umpire or ref does not call it as such?

 

If CGC says it is a 9.8, then is it a 9.8? As far as the seller is concerned, almost always. As far as the buyer is concerned. Maybe, maybe not.

 

Buy the book and not the grade is what is said often. In most cases that is good advice. Sometimes it requires returning books to unhappy sellers, and it is not their fault. If CGC says it is a 9.8, how can one argue that it is not, after a purchase?

 

Last year I bought a 9.8 Daredevil 158 that was no better than 9.2. I mean not even close.

 

That one hurt.

 

 

 

[sterlingcomics]

This end of the market is almost entirely propped up by faith. If that faith wanes...

 

It's not unlike owning stock....

[sterlingcomics]

Seems to me that the easiest grade to hand out is the 9.8.

 

 

I remembered seeing the cryfest recently about CGC being harsh. I'm confused. Hey-here's a potential idea...maybe we've all finally learned how to grade....the CGC way.

[bhhooks22]

Every modern I submit seems to come back a 9.8 as well. Not like I'm complaining, (well yes, I am), but eventually the supply is going to catch up to demand and prices will be severely impacted. Then everyone who paid a premium for a 9.8 will suddenly see they are as common as dirt, worth 25% of what they paid, and they'll throw their hands up in disgust and walk away from the hobby.

 

 

Certainly a potential scenario. This end of the market is almost entirely propped up by faith. If that faith wanes...

 

Sheeiiittt !! Nothing I submit ever comes back close to a 9.8 ?

..Of course , I buy most of my books from FT .

[toro]

any book prior to 1980 falls under the economy tier? is this in effect now?

 

i dont slab books often. but ive got 2 or 3 that need to be subbed.

 

Send your book in post marked before 4/30 to receive the old price.

[conditionfreak]

Seems to me that the easiest grade to hand out is the 9.8.

 

 

I remembered seeing the cryfest recently about CGC being harsh. I'm confused. Hey-here's a potential idea...maybe we've all finally learned how to grade....the CGC way.

 

That is wrong on two fronts. First, CGC hasn't learned to grade the "CGC way" consistently yet. Secondly, all of us learning to grade will never happen. Not in your wildest dreams.

 

But then again. You may be right. Maybe well all do in fact grade the "CGC way". ie: missing the mark now and then.

 

To succeed at most things, you need to have consistency (this does not apply to winning the lottery or other forms of gambling). Not highs and lows. Yet, that is what happens with professional grading companies (and to be honest, most of us).

 

I understand that "they" are human. "They" can have people on vacations, involved in personal problems that may be what they are thinking about when at work (not concentrating on their work as well), just like all of us. "They" have good and bad days too. Just like you and I. So I am not denegrating them for being human. I am just saying that a label is not a guarantee. It is an opinion. Just like my own grade of a raw book I may offer for sale or offer to purchase.

 

Why then is CGC given an automatic pass by most, that their given grade is right and mine is wrong (especially given the fact that I use the Overstreet written grading guidelines and CGC uses, uh, hmmm, I am not sure what to type here)?

 

Would it be a better hobby with professional grading, if CGC had the right to "recall" any book slabbed by them and re-grade it, if after the first grading they realized that they made an error? I know that if a problem is brought to their attention, they will bend over backwards to make it right. But should they have the "power" to compell "corrections" that come to their attention?

 

If "they" grade and slab an Action Comics #1 as a 4.5 and a year down the road come to the realization that they had a bad day and that particular AC #1 is more likely a 2.0 (we are talking a lot of money here folks), should they have the right under some contractural statements incorporated on the original submission forms, to "recall" said AC #1 for mandatory correction? Every person and entity makes mistakes. To protect the integrity of their "product or service", should they consider contractural wording to protect their companies integrity? Especially if "they" consider it a "gross" mistake (say, one full grade off)?

 

I'm just asking. I am not lobbying.

[dekeuk]

 

should they have the right under some contractural statements incorporated on the original submission forms, to "recall" said AC #1 for mandatory correction?

 

 

 

 

yeah, I can just see it now.

 

The CGC secret police show up at your door one day to take away your AF #15 CGC 9.4 for a "mandatory correction" to a 9.2

 

 

They better show up with a swat team because most Americans have guns to protect themselves from such "mandatory corrections"

 

 

[mackenzie999]

CGC are in the business of making money. If the new pricing structure ends up hurting them financially, they will rethink their pricing policies.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Seems to me that the easiest grade to hand out is the 9.8.

 

 

I remembered seeing the cryfest recently about CGC being harsh. I'm confused. Hey-here's a potential idea...maybe we've all finally learned how to grade....the CGC way.

 

With the exception of a couple of dozen books in eight years of handling thousands and thousands, I've never concluded that CGC were/are 'harsh'.

[seanfingh]

Seems to me that the easiest grade to hand out is the 9.8.

 

 

I remembered seeing the cryfest recently about CGC being harsh. I'm confused. Hey-here's a potential idea...maybe we've all finally learned how to grade....the CGC way.

 

With the exception of a couple of dozen books in eight years of handling thousands and thousands, I've never concluded that CGC were/are 'harsh'.

 

+1 It is all about the type of defects that cause the books to be graded down. Until the CGC era, I (and many others) did not downgrade much for non-colorbreaking thumb dents. I would take a book with two thumb dents over one with a 1/32" corner crease. There are many CGC 9.4 Bronze books with perfect spines and a 1/32 crease. But not very many with perfect corners and a couple of thumb dents.

[Ghost Town]

CGC grading standards (whatever they are) are much looser and today's NM is the old VF/NM.

 

Granted there was more blatant over-grading across the board in the past, but properly graded VF's of 1989 are now VF/NMs and NMs twenty years later.

I wish that was my experience. But far too many books I bought (prior to CGC) as NMs from respected dealers were graded more strictly by CGC.

[conditionfreak]

 

should they have the right under some contractural statements incorporated on the original submission forms, to "recall" said AC #1 for mandatory correction?

 

 

 

 

yeah, I can just see it now.

 

The CGC secret police show up at your door one day to take away your AF #15 CGC 9.4 for a "mandatory correction" to a 9.2

 

 

They better show up with a swat team because most Americans have guns to protect themselves from such "mandatory corrections"

 

 

Obviously you do not keep abreast of the national news much. They are already working on taking our guns. Then they will hire slab police.

 

Get off the phone and video game once in awhile and watch the news

Are slabbed books more valuable than cash? They take our cash whenever they want.

[Moondog]

CGC grading standards (whatever they are) are much looser and today's NM is the old VF/NM.

 

Granted there was more blatant over-grading across the board in the past, but properly graded VF's of 1989 are now VF/NMs and NMs twenty years later.

I wish that was my experience. But far too many books I bought (prior to CGC) as NMs from respected dealers were graded more strictly by CGC.

 

Yes, I agree, that's why I qualified my statement by saying PROPERLY GRADED.

[whisp]

 

should they have the right under some contractural statements incorporated on the original submission forms, to "recall" said AC #1 for mandatory correction?

 

 

 

 

yeah, I can just see it now.

 

The CGC secret police show up at your door one day to take away your AF #15 CGC 9.4 for a "mandatory correction" to a 9.2

 

 

They better show up with a swat team because most Americans have guns to protect themselves from such "mandatory corrections"

 

 

Obviously you do not keep abreast of the national news much. They are already working on taking our guns. Then they will hire slab police.

 

Get off the phone and video game once in awhile and watch the news

Are slabbed books more valuable than cash? They take our cash whenever they want.

 

They can take anything when they want. I would prefer gold bullion though in the end and even then there is rumours and whatever spilling around about bullion being controlled.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I don't know the answer, so I'll throw this out there...how many brand new coins are encased? You know the ones, common as muck, but in great shape? Is this a real money-maker in the coinee market?

 

Thousands and thousands and thousands.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

I don't know the answer, so I'll throw this out there...how many brand new coins are encased? You know the ones, common as muck, but in great shape? Is this a real money-maker in the coinee market?

 

Thousands and thousands and thousands.

 

 

Really?

 

OK, in that case, CGC are probably going nowhere anytime soon. (thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I dunno... maybe I am wrong. Just seems to me that we focus on the winners, but there are an awful lot of losers where people send in common midgrade books.

 

I daresay, when we consider all the books that have been slabbed thusfar (over 1,000,000) that the ratio may be as much as 1:1, and perhaps as much as 2:1, in "books slabbed that are no longer worth what it cost to slab them" vs. books that are.

 

A quick perusal of the Spawn #1s slabbed seems to support this.

 

As more books get slabbed, prices for those "not key, not hot" slabs go down, and more books move below that magic line that separates profit vs. loss when figuring in total cost to slab.

 

Sure, the original submitter of a Dawn 1/2 in 9.0 may have made a net profit, but someone, somewhere, has taken a loss on it since then. What is such a book worth? $1? $2? Novelty? It's not even worth the cost to SHIP, let alone slab.