Does it look like a 9.4 to you ??

[VintageComics]

Most people are not savvy enough to differentiate between 9.4's. They're just happy to own a copy in the grade they can afford.

 

All they care about is the label.

 

And you don't think that that's a very, very sad state of affairs?

 

Well it is, and it isn't.

 

You'd think that any man would be able to be a little handy around the house or the car and be able to 'take care of things' a little...but that's not the case.

 

And that's not a shame anymore, though it may have been at one time.

 

At one point it was expected of a man. Today not in all circles.

 

In fact, I would go so far as to say that for some people it's impossible to fix something. Their brains just don't work that way.

 

My brother and I are only one year apart, apparently we look and act alike and yet he is about as technically inclined as my 14 year old daughter. That's not to take anything away from him...as far as relationships go he is probably the best friend anyone has ever had. We used to joke that any guy that was friends with him found a woman pretty quick. He just had this warm effect on people.

 

Me? I'm all about technical and detail and fixing things. I stink at relationships. I mean I try hard, but I have to try hard. I'm here arguing with you aren't I?

 

 

Today I would rather pay someone to do my work for me than I do it myself (and I am technically inclined...I'm a diagnostic technician).

 

It's a different world. Many people are happy to just trust a professional, pay whatever it costs and just make a purchase than put in the work and do it themselves.

 

Different strokes.

 

R.

 

[NewWorldOrder]

30 years ago this would have been a mint book. Now it's a CGC 9.4 and a disputed NM grade by others.

 

Roy, this is the whole point. 30 years ago it wouldn't have been a Mint, 20 years ago it wouldn't have been a NM. By my own criteria, I'd be hard-pressed giving it a NM-.

 

A corner crease is one of those defects that always had a ceiling...and that ceiling wasn't at NM.

 

I don't give a rat's arse about number of flaws with this...it's the nature of the flaw that has given rise to this outcry.

 

Well I wasn't an avid grader in the 70's but I do hear stories all the time about an 'old school NM' being a new school VF.

 

Again, there have always been different "schools" of though just as you have different schools of though for everything.

 

R.

 

 

Nik,

 

I also have to agree with Roy.

 

What the did I just say.

 

It was the Wild Wild West before CGC and alot of people I remember from my teen years back in the 1990's grading all VF+ as if they were NM. Not saying you did but I am just saying.

 

Heck most HG collectors did the same thing because they felt 9.0 for example looked NM to them and they really thought that.

 

Some collectors still cant see the difference between 9.2 to 9.4 to 9.6 to 9.8 or even want to. Me on the other hand see a big difference in those and am lucky to be able to tell the difference.

 

The ever evolving school is grading is getting tighter and I am hoping will continue to progess to make all of us even better graders.

 

 

CGC grading is not perfect, but its pretty close most of the time.

 

 

 

 

[loboagain]

Why doesn't someone just call CGC and get the grader notes? That should tell us how/why the book got a 9.4. I have called CGC numerous times asking for the notes on a particular book and have gotten good explanations on why the book grades at that grade. No two 9.4 books are the same, they have different defects that make it a 9.4. The notes would also tell if all three graders gave it the same grade or not.

[NewWorldOrder]

Just make sure your grading standards matches the label plus the actual book and you will be a happy comic collector.

 

 

I have passed on many CGC books that made the label but not my book grade.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

I agree.

 

But as I said earlier, allegedly the whole point of CGC was to allow the purchasing of comics sight-unseen.

 

Doesn't like they got there, really, does it?

 

Yea, but I think if an collector bought a whole run of Frank Miller DD in CGC 9.6 sight/unseen you would have atleast a 90% approval rate of the grades.

 

 

I mean I have seen a-hole dealers selling VF as 9.6's, but I have never seen a CGC 9.6 that looks like a VF.

 

CGC= "A nice safe/consistent Hedge for accurant Comic Book Grading."

[VintageComics]

Why doesn't someone just call CGC and get the grader notes? That should tell us how/why the book got a 9.4. I have called CGC numerous times asking for the notes on a particular book and have gotten good explanations on why the book grades at that grade. No two 9.4 books are the same, they have different defects that make it a 9.4. The notes would also tell if all three graders gave it the same grade or not.

 

Fran, if you read my earlier posts, all three graders were at 9.4 and they noted all the defects on the book that we can see in the scans.

 

Solid CGC 9.4

 

(thumbs u

[lizards2]

Never buy a slab without a scan. Forest Gump would say, "buying a CGC slab (unseen) is like a box of chocolates..., you never know what you're going to get."

 

I've seen a few 9.4s with this type and/or worse damage. Someone had posted even worse examples lately of some kind of pedigree or collection books that appeared way overgraded.

 

Buy the book and not the slab. I would never pay a 9.4 price for book that certainly appears to be 9.0.

You would just crack it out anyway

 

No - if I had that book, I'd be unloading it on some unsuspecting fool as fast as I could.

[VintageComics]

OK, one last thing as I have to get some sleep:

 

If dealer X was a slight overgrader you would make a mental note and be more careful dealing with him next time. You would adjust his grade range to fit yours, right?

 

Same goes with CGC. After buying a few 9.4 or 9.6 books you will very quickly learn what you do or do not like about them (creases, miswrap, spine stress...how much more is there?) as there will be very few defects to argue over. You notice we almost never argue over a VF or a Fine range book....or a VG...almost exclusively over NM range books. The reason is that those books allow a WIDE range of defects..arguing it would be almost impossible. On a NM book though, scrutiny increases and so each minute defect becomes more glaring...and each glaring defect becomes a lesson in hair dicing.

 

The solution? Simply adjust your criteria for CGC the way you would for a particular dealer. Call a CGC 9.6 relative to a Nick / FT 9.4.

 

Everyone has a learning curve. CGC has with one numerical grade and a label just shortened the amount of time it took me to learn what I do or don't like. I don't have to deal with undisclosed resto, glaring hidden flaws, snake oil salesmen, etc. All I have to do is deal with a few flaws minor and discern whether they bother me or not.

 

I have just taken a crash course in grading with my handful of 9.4/9.6/9.8 purchases.

 

Sure no course is perfect and no course is concise enough to make me perfect, but I just took the most condensed course I could. What I do with that experience is up to me. Maybe the next purchases will be compared to my first one. Maybe not.

 

I agree that I would not grade this book a 9.2 myself, but if I'm someone dropping big $$ on a book and choose not to ask questions or look at scans (or learn to grade) then I must be happy the way I see the rose colored world. I don't want someone ruining my rose colored world.

 

You guys already did that for me years ago when I joined. Now I'm never satisfied.

 

 

Anyhow, that's it for me.

 

R.

 

 

[Senormac]

Hi pickycollector. Hows the Canadian weather these days?

 

I see what you see. 9.4 seems a bit generous in my thinking

 

Good to hear from you, Senormac, it's been a while. Canadian weather is good, thanks.

 

Yes 9.4 is very generous indeed.

 

Any more old Turok that you want to sell ?

 

No and actually I've been rebuilding my Turok run....so I might have bid against you this last year or so. I picked up my 596 in 7.0 - 7.5 from a guy in Toronto of all places. I won the bid on my birthday, 1-10 of last year for $110 ........ Somebody up there likes me .....and I don't mean Canada

 

[lizards2]

Hi pickycollector. Hows the Canadian weather these days?

 

I see what you see. 9.4 seems a bit generous in my thinking

 

Good to hear from you, Senormac, it's been a while. Canadian weather is good, thanks.

 

Yes 9.4 is very generous indeed.

 

Any more old Turok that you want to sell ?

 

No and actually I've been rebuilding my Turok run....so I might have bid against you this last year or so. I picked up my 596 in 7.0 - 7.5 from a guy in Toronto of all places. I won the bid on my birthday, 1-10 of last year for $110 ........ Somebody up there likes me .....and I don't mean Canada

 

 

suhweet

[Boozad]

Just make sure your grading standards matches the label plus the actual book and you will be a happy comic collector.

 

 

I have passed on many CGC books that made the label but not my book grade.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

I agree.

 

But as I said earlier, allegedly the whole point of CGC was to allow the purchasing of comics sight-unseen.

 

Doesn't like they got there, really, does it?

 

Definitely not, especially after I saw that Spidey a few months ago in a 9.8 slab with the corner folded completely backwards. If I'd bought that book as a 9.8 with that defect I'd have gone mad.

 

Does the book in question look like a 9.4? Sure doesn't. Would I buy it as a 9.4? No. But as long as the option is there it doesn't matter. If you can see the book and don't agree with the grade it's down to the individual to make up their own mind whether to pull the trigger.

 

So no, buying a slab unseen is still a big no-no for me.

[bhhooks22]

OK, one last thing as I have to get some sleep:

 

If dealer X was a slight overgrader you would make a mental note and be more careful dealing with him next time. You would adjust his grade range to fit yours, right?

 

Same goes with CGC. After buying a few 9.4 or 9.6 books you will very quickly learn what you do or do not like about them (creases, miswrap, spine stress...how much more is there?) as there will be very few defects to argue over. You notice we almost never argue over a VF or a Fine range book....or a VG...almost exclusively over NM range books. The reason is that those books allow a WIDE range of defects..arguing it would be almost impossible. On a NM book though, scrutiny increases and so each minute defect becomes more glaring...and each glaring defect becomes a lesson in hair dicing.

 

The solution? Simply adjust your criteria for CGC the way you would for a particular dealer. Call a CGC 9.6 relative to a Nick / FT 9.4.

 

Everyone has a learning curve. CGC has with one numerical grade and a label just shortened the amount of time it took me to learn what I do or don't like. I don't have to deal with undisclosed resto, glaring hidden flaws, snake oil salesmen, etc. All I have to do is deal with a few flaws minor and discern whether they bother me or not.

 

I have just taken a crash course in grading with my handful of 9.4/9.6/9.8 purchases.

 

Sure no course is perfect and no course is concise enough to make me perfect, but I just took the most condensed course I could. What I do with that experience is up to me. Maybe the next purchases will be compared to my first one. Maybe not.

 

I agree that I would not grade this book a 9.2 myself, but if I'm someone dropping big $$ on a book and choose not to ask questions or look at scans (or learn to grade) then I must be happy the way I see the rose colored world. I don't want someone ruining my rose colored world.

 

You guys already did that for me years ago when I joined. Now I'm never satisfied.

 

 

Anyhow, that's it for me.

 

R.

 

 

Gosh , I think I luv him !

Very nice Roy. (thumbs u

..just stay away from your conspiracy threads.

[Bomber-Bob]

I have to agree with Roy, if the grader's notes match the visible defects and all three graders gave it a 9.4, I'm sorry but it's a 9.4 .

Some 9.0's look like 9.4's and some 9.4's look like 9.0's, it's a fact.

I'm not sure what can be accomplished from this discussion. Do we want the seller to send it back and hope for a 9.0 ? It is what it is, don't buy it if you don't like it.

[rjpb]

I have to agree with Roy, if the grader's notes match the visible defects and all three graders gave it a 9.4, I'm sorry but it's a CGC 9.4 .

Some CGC 9.0's look like 9.4's and some CGC 9.4's look like 9.0's, it's a fact.

I'm not sure what can be accomplished from this discussion. Do we want the seller to send it back and hope for a CGC 9.0 ? It is what it is, don't buy it if you don't like it.

 

Fixed.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Let me offer an opinion here from someone who actually held this book in hand.

 

With the exception of that upper right corner crease, this book is unbelieveably beautiful, and that's coming from someone whose pet peeve is corner creases (of any size). That indent on the top of the back cover did not exist when I owned it, not to my recollection anyway.

 

It was an old label 9.2 that was purchased, eventually pressed, and resubmitted to get a 9.4. It was sold with full disclosure of the Pressing, to a fellow Boardie I believe. If you want to call it a 9.0, good luck to you. As much as I hate corner creases, I couldn't call it any worse then a NM/NM-, or old school NM 93. It was a "tweener" between a 9.4 and a strict 9.2, that CGC obviously thought was a 9.4. Even a year after the fact, and with no more financial involvement with the book, I can't disagree with their assessment, because the book is just that nice.

 

In the final assessment, I've seen far worse 9.4s, both in CGC holders, and frankly, offered here raw on the boards. 'Nuff said.

 

[DrWatson]

Some 9.0's look like 9.4's and some 9.4's look like 9.0's, it's a fact.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Some 9.0's look like 9.4's and some 9.4's look like 9.0's, it's a fact.

 

 

[Bosco685]

Like someone stated on here recently when I mentioned I had been buying books and noticed a grading change "CGC has ABSOLUTELY not changed their grading standards!"

 

Interesting. How would any of us know that do not work for CGC since no standards are published?

 

But you do have to be careful as it is the overall book being graded, and not just the front and back cover. Some of these books may have sparkling-white insides that just allow that book to stand out.

 

Just trying to be fair what may be happening.

[Sal]

Just make sure your grading standards matches the label plus the actual book and you will be a happy comic collector.

 

 

I have passed on many CGC books that made the label but not my book grade.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

I agree.

 

But as I said earlier, allegedly the whole point of CGC was to allow the purchasing of comics sight-unseen.

 

Doesn't like they got there, really, does it?

 

that's more of a function of the impossibility of the stated goal than any thing CGC's doing wrong, as i see it. attempting to meet a standard that allows for sight-unseen purchasing of any "graded" collectible is a fool's errand

[TheShadowKnows]

That big number in the left hand corner certainly looks like a 9.4 to me!

 

Which simply means that in someone's opinion, it's a '9.4'...whatever the hell that might be.

 

And CGC will knock 2 full grades off a book for a next to invisible stain but they still call this a 9.4? I've always said that they should probably weight defects based on the impact it has on the books overall appearance.

 

This is so true. CGC will hammer a book for the smallest stain or spot, especially on a back white cover. Ive got a beautiful FF. # 48 with same exact little corner crease. I probably wont ever send it in cause im afraid it will come back 8.5 at best.

 

DRX

I saw a beautiful 48 with no crease and a small stain on the back cover.Came

back a 9.0

Indeed it was!

 

That was mine. (thumbs u

With the "buy the book, not the grade" idea, would I be able to get a 9.4 price?

Probably not. That only works one way... down.

[CKB]

Let me offer an opinion here from someone who actually held this book in hand.

 

With the exception of that upper right corner crease, this book is unbelieveably beautiful, and that's coming from someone whose pet peeve is corner creases (of any size). That indent on the top of the back cover did not exist when I owned it, not to my recollection anyway.

 

It was an old label 9.2 that was purchased, eventually pressed, and resubmitted to get a 9.4. It was sold with full disclosure of the Pressing, to a fellow Boardie I believe. If you want to call it a 9.0, good luck to you. As much as I hate corner creases, I couldn't call it any worse then a NM/NM-, or old school NM 93. It was a "tweener" between a 9.4 and a strict 9.2, that CGC obviously thought was a 9.4. Even a year after the fact, and with no more financial involvement with the book, I can't disagree with their assessment, because the book is just that nice.

 

In the final assessment, I've seen far worse 9.4s, both in CGC holders, and frankly, offered here raw on the boards. 'Nuff said.