How Hard will the Avengers Market CRASH & when?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Avengers 16, New team?

Avengers 71, first Invaders?

 

Compared to Daredevil, Avengers are a cornucopia of keys. Sgt Fury too ya know?

 

X-men pre 93 isn't exactly key heavy.

 

Xmen 1 v Avengers 1

Xmen 12 &14 v Avengers 4

Xmen 35 v Avengers 11

Xmen 28 v Avengers 57

X-men 66 v Avengers 71

X-men 51-65 v Avengers 93-100

 

Thank you for confirming what I have always said.. X-Men were TRASH before the BA

[october]

Most the people I have seen buying these books will be tired of them within 6 months.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath. I am not sure that Timelys have EVER been cold.

I am not saying they will be "cold" but I believe the amount of serious buyers will dwindle. And I am speaking on a lower graded level. The average collector may buy them here and there. But for how long? I am not saying the books will take a dump either, just that like any other books there is a hot and cold time. There have been alot of buyers the past year I ahve watched gobble up copies that are a bit beyond their normal comic buying habits concerning price. This leads me to believe the books will be resold rather quickly.

 

I don't think it's fair to extrapolate the buying habits of people on these boards to the market in general. Timelys are the bedrock of golden age collecting and I doubt they will see much of a dip in price unless the entire age takes a tumble.

[bhhooks22]

Maybe I can put a little class and perspective on this subject Gents .

I could have Avengers #4's lining my wall like wallpaper all day long . Avengers #1 I would spit and take a leak on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you said that out-loud .....

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Most the people I have seen buying these books will be tired of them within 6 months.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath. I am not sure that Timelys have EVER been cold.

I am not saying they will be "cold" but I believe the amount of serious buyers will dwindle. And I am speaking on a lower graded level. The average collector may buy them here and there. But for how long? I am not saying the books will take a dump either, just that like any other books there is a hot and cold time. There have been alot of buyers the past year I ahve watched gobble up copies that are a bit beyond their normal comic buying habits concerning price. This leads me to believe the books will be resold rather quickly.

 

I don't think it's fair to extrapolate the buying habits of people on these boards to the market in general. Timelys are the bedrock of golden age collecting and I doubt they will see much of a dip in price unless the entire age takes a tumble.

You are right, and you are wrong. I see (by the average collector) far more GA DC's being purchased at shows in general. What happens at auction is a different animal, and is IMO a different pool all together. All factors have to be taken in of course, but in the past year there have been alot of "fresh faces" and they are slowly finding their way. With that it will be a sort "thinning" to see who goes and stays. The average collector is not dropping 1K or better on 1 book, so timelys may beshort lived for some but not all.

 

My point is also that with these people if they have bought above their means or lose interest quickly, they are dealing with books that take a little longer to appreciate in value. So you can only hope to break even on a quick sale. Sell at the wrong venue, and you lose some.

 

I dont think that the GA market will tumble. But it is something that grows at a much slower rate. So some people may dabble and get bored waiting for books, and some will stick around.

[Foolkiller]

Therefore, the Boston copy is worth $6K? BTW, I sold the Boston 9.0 in early February.

 

Maybe I give better deals than Comiclink.

 

Maybe we should look back in 30-60 days on Comiclink for that 9.0 in a 9.2 holder.

 

I hate to say this but at least with Heritage I can watch the upgrade progression, somebody out there with a lot of time on their hands should do the Comiclink recycle.

 

While it's nice to see books jumping every week we all shouldn't be tulip bulb salesman. Avengers #4 was common and dead for awhile. I had 4 highgrade copies for sale at one time. Now all of a sudden it's alive again. Enjoy the party while you can and don't be the last man holding the hot potato.

 

 

 

 

You do give good deals!

 

Just FYI, the non ped sold for $6k on comiclink. The Rocky Mountain 9.0 Avengers 4 sold for $6200+, and I've fielded several offers north of around $6k for the Boston (of which I am the owner).

 

I have to agree that I never thought it would never be this hot -- as I remember Harry telling me he had trouble giving away his 7.5 (which you just sold)... book is on fire... we'll see if it lasts, but I think it actually will sustain for quite some time.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Good thing I have my 3.5

[VintageComics]

The ramp up of SA Avengers 1 and 4 may be a spike up then down or just a leveling off. My question is what will happen to Cap GA books.

 

These are already as hot as can be among GA collectors. My thought related to movie affect is where AV 1 & 4 will probably either level off or go down, I think that GA Caps will either remain level or go even further up. Specifically the GA keys like 1, 3, classic covers, Schomberg WWII covers, and the Weird Tales issues.

So from a speculative POV and at FMV, I'd buy an unrestored GA cap before I bought any of the Avengers. Harder to find sure, but not impossible if you have a range of books you might want.

Timelys in general have been hot for awhile. They will cool down eventually just like everything else. Personally speaking I would grab some Sub-Mariners, and Torch books before MMC and Cap. Just because of the current state of them as the "shiny object". Most the people I have seen buying these books will be tired of them within 6 months.

 

 

Pat, Timely books apparently (acc to a few old timers) have always been hot just like SA Marvels.

MMC and Cap you mean.

 

I could not BELIEVE how many times Subby, Torch, and the other less noteworthy titles have been offered for sale here to either not sell or be steeply discounted.

 

And Roy. You are hands down a biased opinion. You have far too much to lose with those books.

 

When I got into the GA collecting last year I watched very closely. Timely's had REALLY started going CRAZY. Im not saying they were "cold" they are expensive and desireable by many collectors. But alot of these books seemed to have a pool of buyers that really exploded onto the scene.

 

Pat, is your reading comprehension down today?

 

I'm going to tell you straight :censored:ing up that I'm getting pretty tired of always being told I'm biased. It bugs me because it shows me that in this case you didn't even read what I wrote. You simply replied with a reflex thought.

 

My statement made references to old timers. Not my opinion.

 

Ask Ciorac his opinion. He was a BSD for decades. His words: No matter how much the guide went up, Timelys continued to sell for over guide. He's a DC guy so his opinion isn't biased.

 

I happen to love Silver Age and Bronze Age Marvels. That is my first love. I made a conscious decision to sell most of my collection off and collect low to mid grade TImely.

 

Why?

 

Less volatile.

 

If you think guaging the market against forum sales is a valid argument then you don't have a clue.

 

I put stuff for sale here. It doesn't sell I almost ALWAYS get more for it elsewhere.

 

R.

 

[G.A.tor]

The ramp up of SA Avengers 1 and 4 may be a spike up then down or just a leveling off. My question is what will happen to Cap GA books.

 

These are already as hot as can be among GA collectors. My thought related to movie affect is where AV 1 & 4 will probably either level off or go down, I think that GA Caps will either remain level or go even further up. Specifically the GA keys like 1, 3, classic covers, Schomberg WWII covers, and the Weird Tales issues.

So from a speculative POV and at FMV, I'd buy an unrestored GA cap before I bought any of the Avengers. Harder to find sure, but not impossible if you have a range of books you might want.

Timelys in general have been hot for awhile. They will cool down eventually just like everything else. Personally speaking I would grab some Sub-Mariners, and Torch books before MMC and Cap. Just because of the current state of them as the "shiny object". Most the people I have seen buying these books will be tired of them within 6 months.

 

 

Pat, Timely books apparently (acc to a few old timers) have always been hot just like SA Marvels.

MMC and Cap you mean.

 

I could not BELIEVE how many times Subby, Torch, and the other less noteworthy titles have been offered for sale here to either not sell or be steeply discounted.

 

And Roy. You are hands down a biased opinion. You have far too much to lose with those books.

 

When I got into the GA collecting last year I watched very closely. Timely's had REALLY started going CRAZY. Im not saying they were "cold" they are expensive and desireable by many collectors. But alot of these books seemed to have a pool of buyers that really exploded onto the scene.

 

Pat, is your reading comprehension down today?

 

I'm going to tell you straight :censored:ing up that I'm getting pretty tired of always being told I'm biased. It bugs me because it shows me that in this case you didn't even read what I wrote. You simply replied with a reflex thought.

 

My statement made references to old timers. Not my opinion.

 

Ask Ciorac his opinion. He was a BSD for decades. His words: No matter how much the guide went up, Timelys continued to sell for over guide. He's a DC guy so his opinion isn't biased.

 

I happen to love Silver Age and Bronze Age Marvels. That is my first love. I made a conscious decision to sell most of my collection off and collect low to mid grade TImely.

 

Why?

 

Less volatile.

 

actually, I think i just read an old market report by ponseti? from the early 90's that stated Timely's were "hard" to sell at guide

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I read what you wrote Roy. And I stated afterwards how the Timelys have been heating up according to "the old timers". They are more desireable now then a few years back. So I did indeed read what you wrote.

 

And I always believe that when people have money tied up in something they want so hard for that "thing" to succeed. Hence me stating your opinion is biased. Not trying to say anything other than that so please do chill the out. Because I really dont appreciate being spoken to like that.

 

And I also do agree the GA market is far less volatile when it comes to the long term. The SA/BA market is definately flipping territory IMO. But mostly when speaking of the label chase. Again my opinion.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

The ramp up of SA Avengers 1 and 4 may be a spike up then down or just a leveling off. My question is what will happen to Cap GA books.

 

These are already as hot as can be among GA collectors. My thought related to movie affect is where AV 1 & 4 will probably either level off or go down, I think that GA Caps will either remain level or go even further up. Specifically the GA keys like 1, 3, classic covers, Schomberg WWII covers, and the Weird Tales issues.

So from a speculative POV and at FMV, I'd buy an unrestored GA cap before I bought any of the Avengers. Harder to find sure, but not impossible if you have a range of books you might want.

Timelys in general have been hot for awhile. They will cool down eventually just like everything else. Personally speaking I would grab some Sub-Mariners, and Torch books before MMC and Cap. Just because of the current state of them as the "shiny object". Most the people I have seen buying these books will be tired of them within 6 months.

 

 

Pat, Timely books apparently (acc to a few old timers) have always been hot just like SA Marvels.

MMC and Cap you mean.

 

I could not BELIEVE how many times Subby, Torch, and the other less noteworthy titles have been offered for sale here to either not sell or be steeply discounted.

 

And Roy. You are hands down a biased opinion. You have far too much to lose with those books.

 

When I got into the GA collecting last year I watched very closely. Timely's had REALLY started going CRAZY. Im not saying they were "cold" they are expensive and desireable by many collectors. But alot of these books seemed to have a pool of buyers that really exploded onto the scene.

 

Pat, is your reading comprehension down today?

 

I'm going to tell you straight :censored:ing up that I'm getting pretty tired of always being told I'm biased. It bugs me because it shows me that in this case you didn't even read what I wrote. You simply replied with a reflex thought.

 

My statement made references to old timers. Not my opinion.

 

Ask Ciorac his opinion. He was a BSD for decades. His words: No matter how much the guide went up, Timelys continued to sell for over guide. He's a DC guy so his opinion isn't biased.

 

I happen to love Silver Age and Bronze Age Marvels. That is my first love. I made a conscious decision to sell most of my collection off and collect low to mid grade TImely.

 

Why?

 

Less volatile.

 

actually, I think i just read an old market report by ponseti? from the early 90's that stated Timely's were "hard" to sell at guide

Well, good to know I am not talking out my arse then..

 

They are HOT now, began heating up a while ago. And may settle back in.

[VintageComics]

My point is that I was basing it upon a post (or several that Bill made) and not talking from my own experience.

 

I'd like to know exactly when that article was written. Was it when the entire hobby tanked?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Bill is only one person. I talk as I stated when speaking to october on a more basic level. I attend at least 2 shows per month minmum. Where I see your "average" collector buying. The amount asked for Timelys is generally just barely out of grasp for the avg. budget.

 

Now if I was speaking of a hot "flash". I would say Black Terror and Exciting. They have in the past 1 year doubled what they were selling at or better. They are destined to slip back down after the "hype" is over. Alex Ross did a great job bringing the Nedor characters back, and sparked some great interest. But the books are being sold for a little more than they can sustain long term. I blame lack of history, and partial scarcity with certain issues.

 

And this is again not to say they will sink, but stabalize.

[VintageComics]

Bill is only one person but he would have some idea.

 

I was out of comics for most of the middle 90's but didn't the market go through a tough time?

 

If the entire hobby tanked then that is not a bubble bursting on one particular title or publisher.

 

we're talking about whether Avengers #1 and #4 will crash. Not until all the other keys crash. That's my take on it.

 

As far as Timely books? Marvel #1 was the biggest book until the Keaton Batman movie in the late 80's. The Tec #27 over took it, and then Action overtook Tec #27. Marvel #1 has lost ground since, likely because of it's lack of primary tier characters.

 

If anyone else can chime in on Timely prices feel free. From what I know as long as comics were hot Timelys have been as well.

 

R.

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

The GA books go in cycles. MMC1, Action1, and Tec27 are always going to be revolving. The big boy right now is Action 1.

 

Comics dd go through a tough time. But the statement Rick quoted was specified with Timelys, not all GA.

 

And the past 2 years MMC and Cap have been pushing up. I see other Timely books sitting on wall displays month after month.

[VintageComics]

The GA books go in cycles. MMC1, Action1, and Tec27 are always going to be revolving. The big boy right now is Action 1.

 

Comics dd go through a tough time. But the statement Rick quoted was specified with Timelys, not all GA.

 

And the past 2 years MMC and Cap have been pushing up. I see other Timely books sitting on wall displays month after month.

 

I see what you're saying.

 

I don't think Action #1 will ever be dethroned again...not unless Stan Lee becomes president of the Untied States of America.

 

I asked around for Timely books in Detroit. None to be found, and dealers all said they can't hang on to them. I didn't specify titles.

 

R.

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

The GA books go in cycles. MMC1, Action1, and Tec27 are always going to be revolving. The big boy right now is Action 1.

 

Comics dd go through a tough time. But the statement Rick quoted was specified with Timelys, not all GA.

 

And the past 2 years MMC and Cap have been pushing up. I see other Timely books sitting on wall displays month after month.

 

I see what you're saying.

 

I don't think Action #1 will ever be dethroned again...not unless Stan Lee becomes president of the Untied States of America.

 

I asked around for Timely books in Detroit. None to be found, and dealers all said they can't hang on to them. I didn't specify titles.

 

R.

 

But thats kind of the point. They are in that HOT period. I dont expect it to drop suddenly. These books dont spike because of movies, or media hype. They just become the shiny object. I suspect they will keep selling until (as I stated earlier) people get tired of them, or they become too expensive. Then you have no choice but to lower prices.

 

When it comes to the GA right now, I know where I stand as far as collecting goes. And possibility of return is always nice, but there are times to buy and times to sell. Timely it is time to sell, Nedor is the same. If you wanted my opinion of what is next, thats easy. Early Action Comics. That pool is filling at a steady rate. And once the pool is full, the war begins.

[kc120us]

Avengers 16, New team?

Avengers 71, first Invaders?

 

Compared to Daredevil, Avengers are a cornucopia of keys. Sgt Fury too ya know?

 

X-men pre 93 isn't exactly key heavy.

 

Xmen 1 v Avengers 1

Xmen 12 &14 v Avengers 4

Xmen 35 v Avengers 11

Xmen 28 v Avengers 57

X-men 66 v Avengers 71

X-men 51-65 v Avengers 93-100

 

Thank you for confirming what I have always said.. X-Men were TRASH before the BA

 

You tryin to start a fight or sumthin!!

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Avengers 16, New team?

Avengers 71, first Invaders?

 

Compared to Daredevil, Avengers are a cornucopia of keys. Sgt Fury too ya know?

 

X-men pre 93 isn't exactly key heavy.

 

Xmen 1 v Avengers 1

Xmen 12 &14 v Avengers 4

Xmen 35 v Avengers 11

Xmen 28 v Avengers 57

X-men 66 v Avengers 71

X-men 51-65 v Avengers 93-100

 

Thank you for confirming what I have always said.. X-Men were TRASH before the BA

 

You tryin to start a fight or sumthin!!

I knew you would read that and say something. Thats why I wrote it.

 

How have you been Casey

[blazingbob]

While I may not be known as a Golden Age dealer I do have some insight into the market.

 

I've found that the VG/VG+ Timely Market has always been hot. Books in the $300-$500 price range do very well. Higher Grade timely's generally take a bit longer to sell and as I've told a couple of collector's who pursue them it's not a good idea to be known as the High grade Timely guy looking for books. You will suddenly become every dealers best friend. It's better to be flying under the radar than above it.

 

Mark Frantz was the "Timely guy" at one time. When he sold his timely's I believe the mantle was passed to Dan Bennett who passed away a few years ago. When Richard got his collection to sell Richard Evans was everybody's buddy. He used to have posse's hanging out at his booth. Now that their gone he's left with Billy Parker .

 

To use Silver Age as a comparison I feel that Captain America's are like Spidey's, Marvel Mystery sell like FF's. Schomburg covers rule. Secondary titles to me are Human Torch, USA Cap covers, All Select, All Winners and Sub-Mariner. While Marvel #1 is a great book I tend to feel the guide accurately reflects it's value where the guide does not accurately reflect the real value of a Action #1.

 

DC Gold has much better page quality than Timely's do. Offwhite or better Timely's are much harder to find than their DC equivalents.

[kc120us]

Avengers 16, New team?

Avengers 71, first Invaders?

 

Compared to Daredevil, Avengers are a cornucopia of keys. Sgt Fury too ya know?

 

X-men pre 93 isn't exactly key heavy.

 

Xmen 1 v Avengers 1

Xmen 12 &14 v Avengers 4

Xmen 35 v Avengers 11

Xmen 28 v Avengers 57

X-men 66 v Avengers 71

X-men 51-65 v Avengers 93-100

 

Thank you for confirming what I have always said.. X-Men were TRASH before the BA

 

You tryin to start a fight or sumthin!!

I knew you would read that and say something. Thats why I wrote it.

 

How have you been Casey

 

Ok. saving more than I'm spending. The wife and I are headed to Paris for a week of much needed vacation tomorrow. How are you and the family? Getting any sleep yet?