HOS #92 9.6 vs GL #76 9.6

[tonytiger]

So there is a copy of each book in the Comicconnect auction. I get it that GL #76 in 9.6 is tougher.

 

Which is the more significant key?

 

HOS #92 is a first appearance issue. GL #76 is not.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

HOS 92, IMHO, and if I had to choose between the two.

 

But I can very much appreciate both books.

[bronze_rules]

HOS 92.

[kimik]

GL #76.

 

HOS is sought after for the same reason GL #76 is - it is hard to find in high grade . Yes it is the first appearance of a character, but it is just the Swamp Thing = Marvel's Man-thing in impact. GL #76, on the other hand, dealt with social issues of the time that other DC (and Marvel) books would not touch. It basically brought DC out of the 50s and into the 70s (okay, 1969).

 

As far as artwork, HOS does have Wrightson, but GL #76 features Neal Adams so slight edge to GL #76 in that department as well.

[cujobyte]

GL #76.

 

HOS is sought after for the same reason GL #76 is - it is hard to find in high grade . Yes it is the first appearance of a character, but it is just the Swamp Thing = Marvel's Man-thing in impact. GL #76, on the other hand, dealt with social issues of the time that other DC (and Marvel) books would not touch. It basically brought DC out of the 50s and into the 70s (okay, 1969).

 

As far as artwork, HOS does have Wrightson, but GL #76 features Neal Adams so slight edge to GL #76 in that department as well.

 

I agree 110% with this.

[RockMyAmadeus]

House of Secrets #92, but just by a nose. Yes, Man-Thing "pre-dated" Swampy, but only by a month, and in a magazine, no less. Unless there was espionage going on between the offices, there was no way Man-Thing could have really inspired Swampy. GL #76 was important only in hindsight. Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil's "socially conscious" GL did not do well with its comtemporary audience, lasting only two years and 13 issues (#88 being reprints, natch), and never even making it out of bi-monthly status (yes, neither did Swampy, but he wasn't going for socially conscious.)

 

I think the buzz (now) attached to GL #76 is mostly due to it being so very difficult to find in high grade. For years, it was important mostly just because it was the start of Neal Adams' longest running series.

[Bosco685]

GL #76.

 

HOS is sought after for the same reason GL #76 is - it is hard to find in high grade . Yes it is the first appearance of a character, but it is just the Swamp Thing = Marvel's Man-thing in impact. GL #76, on the other hand, dealt with social issues of the time that other DC (and Marvel) books would not touch. It basically brought DC out of the 50s and into the 70s (okay, 1969).

 

As far as artwork, HOS does have Wrightson, but GL #76 features Neal Adams so slight edge to GL #76 in that department as well.

I hear where your logic is going, and can understand as these two books especially were always dreams to own.

 

But assuming Swamp Thing was just a counter to Marvel's Man-Thing in the same year (Savage Tales 1 is listed May 1971; HOS 92 is July 1971), the strength of that character later on under Alan Moore's control laid the groundwork for the Vertigo line with Sandman, Constantine, and many other solid characters.

 

When you look at GL 76's impact, its influence was also quite critical in showing a more human-side to superhero stories. So I do get why this book is considered so sought-after.

 

But to just write off Swamp Thing as a copycat character when he developed into a more critical role later on, making HOS 92 important with his 1st appearance, would be a shame.

[oakman29]

GL #76.

 

HOS is sought after for the same reason GL #76 is - it is hard to find in high grade . Yes it is the first appearance of a character, but it is just the Swamp Thing = Marvel's Man-thing in impact. GL #76, on the other hand, dealt with social issues of the time that other DC (and Marvel) books would not touch. It basically brought DC out of the 50s and into the 70s (okay, 1969).

 

As far as artwork, HOS does have Wrightson, but GL #76 features Neal Adams so slight edge to GL #76 in that department as well.

I hear where your logic is going, and can understand as these two books especially were always dreams to own.

 

But assuming Swamp Thing was just a counter to Marvel's Man-Thing in the same year (Savage Tales 1 is listed May 1971; HOS 92 is July 1971), the strength of that character later on under Alan Moore's control laid the groundwork for the Vertigo line with Sandman, Constantine, and many other solid characters.

 

When you look at GL 76's impact, its influence was also quite critical in showing a more human-side to superhero stories. So I do get why this book is considered so sought-after.

 

But to just write off Swamp Thing as a copycat character when he developed into a more critical role later on, making HOS 92 important with his 1st appearance, would be a shame.

 

My friend you hit the nail on the head.1st app. always trump significant social issues

[kimik]

GL #76.

 

HOS is sought after for the same reason GL #76 is - it is hard to find in high grade . Yes it is the first appearance of a character, but it is just the Swamp Thing = Marvel's Man-thing in impact. GL #76, on the other hand, dealt with social issues of the time that other DC (and Marvel) books would not touch. It basically brought DC out of the 50s and into the 70s (okay, 1969).

 

As far as artwork, HOS does have Wrightson, but GL #76 features Neal Adams so slight edge to GL #76 in that department as well.

I hear where your logic is going, and can understand as these two books especially were always dreams to own.

 

But assuming Swamp Thing was just a counter to Marvel's Man-Thing in the same year (Savage Tales 1 is listed May 1971; HOS 92 is July 1971), the strength of that character later on under Alan Moore's control laid the groundwork for the Vertigo line with Sandman, Constantine, and many other solid characters.

 

When you look at GL 76's impact, its influence was also quite critical in showing a more human-side to superhero stories. So I do get why this book is considered so sought-after.

 

But to just write off Swamp Thing as a copycat character when he developed into a more critical role later on, making HOS 92 important with his 1st appearance, would be a shame.

 

I agree with your rationale, but is Swamp Thing really a strong character? I don't think so. Sure, it is a successful Vertigo title and the Moore run was okay, but Swamp Thing is still just a third tier character in the grand scheme of things. How many people still read the book (and no, I do not know if the series is still being published or not)?

 

The impact of GL #76 on the 70s was arguably the same as The Dark Knight Returns or the Watchmen bringing in the gritty tone to DC (and Marvel) comics in the 80s. Yes, the GL run was cancelled, but if I recall correctly from another thread that decision was made before DC saw the sales figures. If not for the Adams/O'Neil run, GL #90 would not have been offered up to kick start the title again after the fact and we would not be enjoying the stellar Geoff Johns run today.

[tonytiger]

I'd rather have the HOS 92.

[LordRahl]

GL #76.

 

HOS is sought after for the same reason GL #76 is - it is hard to find in high grade . Yes it is the first appearance of a character, but it is just the Swamp Thing = Marvel's Man-thing in impact. GL #76, on the other hand, dealt with social issues of the time that other DC (and Marvel) books would not touch. It basically brought DC out of the 50s and into the 70s (okay, 1969).

 

As far as artwork, HOS does have Wrightson, but GL #76 features Neal Adams so slight edge to GL #76 in that department as well.

 

[LordRahl]

So there is a copy of each book in the Comicconnect auction. I get it that GL #76 in 9.6 is tougher.

 

Which is the more significant key?

 

HOS #92 is a first appearance issue. GL #76 is not.

 

 

 

 

 

Am I the only one who finds it odd that a large percentage of your posts, if not all, has to do with books being auctioned off by CC/Metro?

[Mr.Diggler]

I would take the GL 76. Hold it, love it and take some photos of it. Then off to the auction block it goes! With the coin that book would bring I could have nice solid copies of both books and plenty left over for other stuff.

[Jeffro.]

I agree with your rationale, but is Swamp Thing really a strong character? I don't think so. Sure, it is a successful Vertigo title and the Moore run was okay, but Swamp Thing is still just a third tier character in the grand scheme of things. How many people still read the book (and no, I do not know if the series is still being published or not)?

 

I agree that 1st appearance trumps relevant social issues. I would rate Swampy higher than third tier myself. Plus, he was important enough for a movie to be made at a time when Superheo movies were the exception nit the rule.

 

 

 

If not for the Adams/O'Neil run, GL #90 would not have been offered up to kick start the title again after the fact and we would not be enjoying the stellar Geoff Johns run today.

 

 

So basically you're saying that without the Adams/O'Neil run there would never again have been a GL comics series? Ever? In perpetuity?

C'mon, you don't really believe that do you? Both DC and Marvel resurrect failed characters all the time. GL would have absolutely been brought back at some point.

 

[Jeffro.]

I would take the GL 76. Hold it, love it and take some photos of it. Then off to the auction block it goes! With the coin that book would bring I could have nice solid copies of both books and plenty left over for other stuff.

 

What he said.

[Zonker]

I agree with your rationale, but is Swamp Thing really a strong character? I don't think so. Sure, it is a successful Vertigo title and the Moore run was okay, but Swamp Thing is still just a third tier character in the grand scheme of things. How many people still read the book (and no, I do not know if the series is still being published or not)?

 

I agree that 1st appearance trumps relevant social issues. I would rate Swampy higher than third tier myself. Plus, he was important enough for a movie to be made at a time when Superheo movies were the exception nit the rule.

 

 

 

 

My only disagreement with this reasoning is the character in HOS is a different character, a 19th century Alec Olsen, rather than the contemporary Alec Holland. So it's almost a prototype for the Swamp Thing as he eventually wound up. Of course, Alan Moore later ret-conned the HOS character to be one in a long line of "plant elementals," culminating in the current version.

[Jeffro.]

I hear ya, but fandom at large considers it the 1st app of Swamp Thing. I really don't see that changing any time soon.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

The impact of GL #76 on the 70s was arguably the same as The Dark Knight Returns or the Watchmen bringing in the gritty tone to DC (and Marvel) comics in the 80s.

 

Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen were hailed as triumphs of the artform as they were released.

 

GL #76 was not.

 

In fact, I would argue that it was the shift in tone from superhero to "dark, gothic" type stories...Swamp Thing, Batman, et al...that accomplished that metamorphosis more than GL/GA (though, obviously, Denny O'Neil was heavily involved across the board, as was Neal Adams.)

 

Yes, the GL run was cancelled, but if I recall correctly from another thread that decision was made before DC saw the sales figures. If not for the Adams/O'Neil run, GL #90 would not have been offered up to kick start the title again after the fact and we would not be enjoying the stellar Geoff Johns run today.

 

I don't quite understand how that rationale works. GL #90 came over four YEARS after #89. In 1976-77, DC was relaunching all sorts of "cancelled in 1970-1973" titles...Metal Men, Teen Titans, Blackhawk, Challengers of the Unknown, Showcase...even All-Star Comics. I don't believe the Adams run had anything to do with the decision to relaunch GL.

[RockMyAmadeus]

So there is a copy of each book in the Comicconnect auction. I get it that GL #76 in 9.6 is tougher.

 

Which is the more significant key?

 

HOS #92 is a first appearance issue. GL #76 is not.

 

 

 

 

 

Am I the only one who finds it odd that a large percentage of your posts, if not all, has to do with books being auctioned off by CC/Metro?

 

Well..if that's true, at least he TRIES to hide it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I agree with your rationale, but is Swamp Thing really a strong character? I don't think so. Sure, it is a successful Vertigo title and the Moore run was okay, but Swamp Thing is still just a third tier character in the grand scheme of things. How many people still read the book (and no, I do not know if the series is still being published or not)?

 

I agree that 1st appearance trumps relevant social issues. I would rate Swampy higher than third tier myself. Plus, he was important enough for a movie to be made at a time when Superheo movies were the exception nit the rule.

 

I was't gonna mention the movie in all its Barbeau goodness...

 

 

 

If not for the Adams/O'Neil run, GL #90 would not have been offered up to kick start the title again after the fact and we would not be enjoying the stellar Geoff Johns run today.

 

 

So basically you're saying that without the Adams/O'Neil run there would never again have been a GL comics series? Ever? In perpetuity?

C'mon, you don't really believe that do you? Both DC and Marvel resurrect failed characters all the time. GL would have absolutely been brought back at some point.

 

Yeah, that's how I would put it.