PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[GACollectibles]

4) Removal From The PL

a) If the accuser requests the accused be removed form the PL, they will be removed.

 

b) If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, they will be removed from the PL.

 

There are several PL members who committed transgressions against multiple board members - how would it work if they tried to get themselves removed from the PL? I'm assuming that all the accusers would have to consent for it to happen?

 

Quite often we have had an accuser submit someone for PL consideration and it comes to light there are multiple infractions. Perhaps adjusting the language to read

 

4) Removal From The PL

a) If the accuser(s) request(s) the accused be removed form the PL, they will be removed.

 

b) If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser(s), they will be removed from the PL.

 

but might also include agreement of removal from all publicly posted accusers in a multiple situation, not just one.

[GACollectibles]

...and kudos for helping clarify the PL processes.

[PovertyRow]

4) Removal From The PL

a) If the accuser requests the accused be removed form the PL, they will be removed.

 

b) If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, they will be removed from the PL.

 

There are several PL members who committed transgressions against multiple board members - how would it work if they tried to get themselves removed from the PL? I'm assuming that all the accusers would have to consent for it to happen?

 

That's a good point. My own take is if there are multiple transgressions across several forumites, then yes, all of the involved would have to agree tha the terms have been met.

 

That is actually the spirit of 4b, but I added it as 4c just to be safe.

 

Just saw GA's post on this as well and I think it is now covered in 4c. (thumbs u

 

oh yeah - 4c reads:

 

c) If multiple accusers are involved, and full restitution is satisfactorily made to all accusers, the accused will be removed from the PL.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2011 by Povertyrow

[PovertyRow]

It dawned on me I have a 50 post view on each page but I think the default is 10? So the Rules may be a few pages back. Here is the latest iteration with suggested changes added.

 

 

HOS and Probation List Rules

 

1) The 30-Day Rule

a) If a transaction between board members is not completed within 30 days, the offended party may submit the offender's name for inclusion to the HOS/Probation List (hereafter called the PL)

 

b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

c) The 30-day rule is suspended if the accused refuses to complete the transaction or if the transaction cannot be completed due to, for example, the item being sold to someone else.

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

2) Notification on the Probation Discussion Thread

a) After the 30 Day Rule is fulfilled, the accuser will send a PM to the accused informing them the issue is being submitted to the Probation Discussion Thread for their inclusion in the PL. This should be a new PM and not part of an existing PM chain.

 

b) After the PM is sent the accuser may submit the accused for inclusion in the PL via the Probation Discussion Thread.

 

c) The accuser should outline as completely as possible the circumstances surrounding the transaction in dispute. Where possible include hyperlinks to board transactions and contact attempts along with dates.

 

d) If reasonable additional expenses are incurred the accuser may include them as part of the resolution. The validity of "reasonable additional expenses" may be subject to discussion.

 

e) If completing the transaction is no longer possible, the accuser may outline a proposed path to resolution.

 

3) Being Placed On The PL

a) After a 72-hour waiting period, if the accused does not respond they will be placed on the PL.

 

b) If the accused responds in the Probation Discussion Thread and it is determined the conditions of the transaction was not met, they will be added to the PL.

 

c) If the accused is not available during that 72-hour period and is placed on the PL, they are free to later respond in the Probation Discussion Thread and present their side.

 

d) If the accused has not responded in the Probation Discussion Thread but continues to post on the boards, a reply can be made informing them they are being considered for placement on the PL.

 

4) Removal From The PL

a) If the accuser requests the accused be removed form the PL, the accused will be removed.

 

b) If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

 

c) If multiple accusers are involved, and full restitution is satisfactorily made to all accusers, the accused will be removed from the PL.

 

5) Probation List versus Hall Of Shame

a) The Probation List is for transactions that have not been fulfilled as promised.

 

b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender.

 

c) The Hall Of Shame candidate is subject to all of the above rules.

 

d) Inclusion in the Hall Of Shame must be decided by a poll.

 

e) Removal from the Hall Of Shame must be decided by a poll.

[Bomber-Bob]

POV, I like the revised rules. You put a lot of work into it and you deserve to be thanked.

 

Not wanting to change the rules I do have a question:

- Is there a Board guideline for a Board transaction regarding the timeline of payment and shipping ?

I recognize at 30 days you can recommend the PL but say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? Conversly, if you have paid and waited two weeks for the book to be shipped can you legitimately ask for your money back.

Edited July 7, 2011 by bomber-bob

[PovertyRow]

POV, I like the revised rules. You put a lot of work into it and you deserve to be thanked.

 

Not wanting to change the rules I do have a question:

- Is there a Board guideline for a Board transaction regarding the timeline of payment and shipping ?

I recognize at 30 days you can recommend the PL but say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? Conversly, if you have paid and waited two weeks for the book to be shipped can you legitimately ask for your money back.

 

There ARE guidelines in the link below and items 6, 8 and 9 address shipping, pricing, timelines etc.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460472#Post1460472

 

Also, as reagrds "say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? " I think if the original terms are not met and the seller is still waiting for payment, they have the option of just cancelling the transaction. Going to the PL is purely voluntary.

 

Same with a buyer still waiting on a book. If the stipulated time has passed with no shipment they can ask the transaction to be cancelled.

 

The PL is to address violations of the Guidelines. So these circumstances should fall under and be included in the Guidelines I linked above. (oh, Gawd!)

Edited July 7, 2011 by Povertyrow

[thirdgreenham]

I just wanted to update on the issue with Eric and myself. The E-check is still pending, but I ask that he be removed. I have good faith that all will be well, and that there never really was reason for the flaming that happened here. I apologize to all parties who bothered to read it all, and to Eric. I can understand how things can be frustrating, and we can all let our tempers get the best of us.

 

Hopefully it is a lesson to all who read through how KEY communication is between all parties.

 

 

Pat-

 

Good. That was an easy one. (thumbs u

[DWL]

Povertyrow, the updated rules look good, thank you very much for your efforts and this.

 

And thanks to everyone, and I do mean everyone, for their constructive comments and suggestions. As Bosco685 said, hopefully we don't have to use these often

[Bomber-Bob]

POV, I like the revised rules. You put a lot of work into it and you deserve to be thanked.

 

Not wanting to change the rules I do have a question:

- Is there a Board guideline for a Board transaction regarding the timeline of payment and shipping ?

I recognize at 30 days you can recommend the PL but say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? Conversly, if you have paid and waited two weeks for the book to be shipped can you legitimately ask for your money back.

 

There ARE guidelines in the link below and items 6, 8 and 9 address shipping, pricing, timelines etc.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460472#Post1460472

 

Also, as reagrds "say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? " I think if the original terms are not met and the seller is still waiting for payment, they have the option of just cancelling the transaction. Going to the PL is purely voluntary.

 

Same with a buyer still waiting on a book. If the stipulated time has passed with no shipment they can ask the transaction to be cancelled.

 

The PL is to address violations of the Guidelines. So these circumstances should fall under and be included in the Guidelines I linked above. (oh, Gawd!)

 

Pov, thanks for the response and I looked at the link but I just don't see anything specific as to timelines for payment and shipping. Please advise.

 

6.It must list specific books with purchase prices. It is acceptable to bulk price, and/or to note that package discounts may be available, but you must list a starting price that you WILL sell for.

8.List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods.

9.List acceptable forms of payment (NOTE: Personal PayPal payment is NOT allowed as a listed option in your post as it is not appropriate for item purchases.)

 

[seanfingh]

 

Kudos to everyone putting in the time for discussion and to the ultimate board scrivener, POV.

[PovertyRow]

POV, I like the revised rules. You put a lot of work into it and you deserve to be thanked.

 

Not wanting to change the rules I do have a question:

- Is there a Board guideline for a Board transaction regarding the timeline of payment and shipping ?

I recognize at 30 days you can recommend the PL but say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? Conversly, if you have paid and waited two weeks for the book to be shipped can you legitimately ask for your money back.

 

There ARE guidelines in the link below and items 6, 8 and 9 address shipping, pricing, timelines etc.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460472#Post1460472

 

Also, as reagrds "say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? " I think if the original terms are not met and the seller is still waiting for payment, they have the option of just cancelling the transaction. Going to the PL is purely voluntary.

 

Same with a buyer still waiting on a book. If the stipulated time has passed with no shipment they can ask the transaction to be cancelled.

 

The PL is to address violations of the Guidelines. So these circumstances should fall under and be included in the Guidelines I linked above. (oh, Gawd!)

 

Pov, thanks for the response and I looked at the link but I just don't see anything specific as to timelines for payment and shipping. Please advise.

 

6.It must list specific books with purchase prices. It is acceptable to bulk price, and/or to note that package discounts may be available, but you must list a starting price that you WILL sell for.

8.List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods.

9.List acceptable forms of payment (NOTE: Personal PayPal payment is NOT allowed as a listed option in your post as it is not appropriate for item purchases.)

 

They are referenced there but yes, it is unclear about what can be done if the terms set forth in the ad are not met.

 

It DOES state that "The following guidelines are now in effect. Over some period of time these may be modified or expanded."

 

So maybe expanding on that is a good idea. If so it should be taken up apart from the PL Rules. Any volunteers?

[mschmidt]

POV, I like the revised rules. You put a lot of work into it and you deserve to be thanked.

 

Not wanting to change the rules I do have a question:

- Is there a Board guideline for a Board transaction regarding the timeline of payment and shipping ?

I recognize at 30 days you can recommend the PL but say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? Conversly, if you have paid and waited two weeks for the book to be shipped can you legitimately ask for your money back.

 

There ARE guidelines in the link below and items 6, 8 and 9 address shipping, pricing, timelines etc.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460472#Post1460472

 

Also, as reagrds "say you have waited two weeks for payment and simply want to cancel the transaction. Is this a legit act ? " I think if the original terms are not met and the seller is still waiting for payment, they have the option of just cancelling the transaction. Going to the PL is purely voluntary.

 

Same with a buyer still waiting on a book. If the stipulated time has passed with no shipment they can ask the transaction to be cancelled.

 

The PL is to address violations of the Guidelines. So these circumstances should fall under and be included in the Guidelines I linked above. (oh, Gawd!)

 

Pov, thanks for the response and I looked at the link but I just don't see anything specific as to timelines for payment and shipping. Please advise.

 

6.It must list specific books with purchase prices. It is acceptable to bulk price, and/or to note that package discounts may be available, but you must list a starting price that you WILL sell for.

8.List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods.

9.List acceptable forms of payment (NOTE: Personal PayPal payment is NOT allowed as a listed option in your post as it is not appropriate for item purchases.)

 

They are referenced there but yes, it is unclear about what can be done if the terms set forth in the ad are not met.

 

It DOES state that "The following guidelines are now in effect. Over some period of time these may be modified or expanded."

 

So maybe expanding on that is a good idea. If so it should be taken up apart from the PL Rules. Any volunteers?

 

I think Bob's question is actually fairly simple ...

 

1) If a buyer doesn't pay within 2 weeks and the seller wants to cancel the transaction, it would require the consent of the buyer to do so - otherwise the buyer can, after 30 days have passed, submit the seller for inclusion on the PL.

 

This doesn't mean that waiting 29 days to pay for your item (without informing the seller that you're doing so) isn't a bit of a *spoon* move - it certainly is - but it's not a PL-worthy offense.

 

There are, of course, common sense exceptions to this - if the seller clearly states in his FS thread that he needs payment within a certain number of days, and the buyer doesn't come through, I'd say that the seller is well within his rights to just cancel the transaction. Much like if the FS thread specifies "paypal only" and the buyer insists on paying by personal check.

 

2) If 2 weeks have passed and the seller hasn't shipped your item, you have no grounds for a refund - you need to wait 30 days before you can bring up this in the Probation Discussion thread.

 

[greggy]

I never have deadbeats cuz people know that my consequences are worse than the board's consequences.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

[PovertyRow]

if the seller clearly states in his FS thread that he needs payment within a certain number of days, and the buyer doesn't come through, I'd say that the seller is well within his rights to just cancel the transaction. Much like if the FS thread specifies "paypal only" and the buyer insists on paying by personal check.

 

2) If 2 weeks have passed and the seller hasn't shipped your item, you have no grounds for a refund - you need to wait 30 days before you can bring up this in the Probation Discussion thread.

 

I think you hit the key with the seller clearly stating they need payment in x amount of days. That way if the buyer agrees to buy they are also agreeing to those terms. I would add that if the seller clearly states a time frame for receiving payment, they must clearly state a time frame for them shipping after receipt of payment. That is the only way to even things between buyer and seller rights.

 

If the stated time has passed and no paymentis made, the seller has the right to cancel the transaction. If no shipment is made within the stated time, the buyer has the right to cancel the transaction and request a full refund.

 

If no specific timeframes are stated then the 30 day should be allowed. Thoughts?

 

 

[JazzMan]

I never have deadbeats cuz people know that my consequences are worse than the board's consequences.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

 

Constipation?

[mschmidt]

if the seller clearly states in his FS thread that he needs payment within a certain number of days, and the buyer doesn't come through, I'd say that the seller is well within his rights to just cancel the transaction. Much like if the FS thread specifies "paypal only" and the buyer insists on paying by personal check.

 

2) If 2 weeks have passed and the seller hasn't shipped your item, you have no grounds for a refund - you need to wait 30 days before you can bring up this in the Probation Discussion thread.

 

I think you hit the key with the seller clearly stating they need payment in x amount of days. That way if the buyer agrees to buy they are also agreeing to those terms. I would add that if the seller clearly states a time frame for receiving payment, they must clearly state a time frame for them shipping after receipt of payment. That is the only way to even things between buyer and seller rights.

 

If the stated time has passed and no paymentis made, the seller has the right to cancel the transaction. If no shipment is made within the stated time, the buyer has the right to cancel the transaction and request a full refund.

 

If no specific timeframes are stated then the 30 day should be allowed. Thoughts?

 

 

Yeah, that sounds fair.

[Green]

c) The 30-day rule is suspended if the accused refuses to complete the transaction or if the transaction cannot be completed due to, for example, the item being sold to someone else.

 

[comix4fun]

I never have deadbeats cuz people know that my consequences are worse than the board's consequences.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

 

 

You spelled "Flatulence" wrong.

 

 

Twice.

[Bomber-Bob]

if the seller clearly states in his FS thread that he needs payment within a certain number of days, and the buyer doesn't come through, I'd say that the seller is well within his rights to just cancel the transaction. Much like if the FS thread specifies "paypal only" and the buyer insists on paying by personal check.

 

2) If 2 weeks have passed and the seller hasn't shipped your item, you have no grounds for a refund - you need to wait 30 days before you can bring up this in the Probation Discussion thread.

 

I think you hit the key with the seller clearly stating they need payment in x amount of days. That way if the buyer agrees to buy they are also agreeing to those terms. I would add that if the seller clearly states a time frame for receiving payment, they must clearly state a time frame for them shipping after receipt of payment. That is the only way to even things between buyer and seller rights.

 

If the stated time has passed and no paymentis made, the seller has the right to cancel the transaction. If no shipment is made within the stated time, the buyer has the right to cancel the transaction and request a full refund.

 

If no specific timeframes are stated then the 30 day should be allowed. Thoughts?

 

 

Thanks for discussing this. The above sounds good on a sale where the seller states his requirements. However, what about the shipping ? I have never seen

a seller state his shipping timeframe. From my experience most sellers on the Boards are timely but I have encountered some not-so-timely sellers. Can we(the Boards) require the seller to post his shipping guidelines so that I, as a buyer, can decide if I want to buy from this seller ?

 

[BustedFlush]

I never have deadbeats cuz people know that my consequences are worse than the board's consequences.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

 

 

You spelled "Flatulence" wrong.

 

 

Twice.

 

He who spelt it, dealt it.