PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[miraclemet]

 

A change I think we could make and I believe Arch might go along with if there was a consensus for it would be converting the kudos threads to feedback threads. Unfortunately, there is some very vocal opposition to doing anything that might inconvenience sellers.

 

I think the probelm with getting this kind of change in place is that there's no regulation on a thread, and they would quickly turn into a downward spiraling festival of modifier notifications and scrubbings, and CGC mods understandably dont want to get into that business.

 

Think of all the administration surrounding ebay feedback... and they are BUILT for this kind of stuff. CGC Message boards arent.

 

I agree it would be useful, but the overhead/admin makes it near-impossible to implement.

[Bio-Rupp]

 

A change I think we could make and I believe Arch might go along with if there was a consensus for it would be converting the kudos threads to feedback threads. Unfortunately, there is some very vocal opposition to doing anything that might inconvenience sellers.

 

I think the probelm with getting this kind of change in place is that there's no regulation on a thread, and they would quickly turn into a downward spiraling festival of modifier notifications and scrubbings, and CGC mods understandably dont want to get into that business.

 

Think of all the administration surrounding ebay feedback... and they are BUILT for this kind of stuff. CGC Message boards arent.

 

I agree it would be useful, but the overhead/admin makes it near-impossible to implement.

 

+1

 

We really should consider ourselves lucky they continue to allow us to sell here at all

[TheMightyJohn]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Were you reimbursed any money out of pocket for this transaction?

 

Eventually, so what you are saying is that as long as Menace refunds someone he screwed over then it's OK and he should be allowed to keep doing it? How about in Jdubs case where Menace received the book back in July, he then ignored pm's, emails, and facebook message from Jdub and didn't respond or refund him until the after he was added to the probie thread this week?

[Bio-Rupp]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Were you reimbursed any money out of pocket for this transaction?

 

Eventually, so what you are saying is that as long as Menace refunds someone he screwed over then it's OK and he should be allowed to keep doing it? How about in Jdubs case where Menace received the book back in July, he then ignored pm's, emails, and facebook message from Jdub and didn't respond or refund him until the after he was added to the probie thread this week?

 

Nope I'm not saying that at all.

 

I am asking if you feel that he is the "worst" this board has to offer in terms of being a seller ?

[miraclemet]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

 

 

What about the people who've been on the PL more than once? I don't really like the idea of people getting off scott free just because they make amends only because they got caught.

 

As we both know, people's memories can get very short when it comes to cool books.

 

 

You just don't want to soften what the HOS is supposed to mean by the inclusion of folks who will find better and more effective corrective action taken against them in other areas.

 

What I mean is, for someone who fails to provide the correct service in the SS facilitation arena, it would seem the most effective way to prevent that from happening again is to not provide him with the permissions necessary to allow that to happen again.

 

It's more of a "Right Hammer for the Right Nail" situation.

 

This is good to remember.

 

If Menace ran off to Jamica with the Op money and never delivered, that'd be HOS worthy for sure.

 

If Menace had poorly packed a slab and it got damaged and the buyer was asking for re-slab reimbursement, that be PL worthy if Menace was refusing to address the issue with the buyer.

 

Menace being a bad Facilitator? Being a bad communicator? Being slow to deliver on the various steps in the sig op process? Sounds like the facilitator program should be re-evaluating his 'facilitator' status.

 

Problem with nominating a facilitator for taking to long on a sketch op; its tough to get definitive evidence, all of the ops take long, and they take different amounts of time so deciding "acceptable" timelines is impossible.

 

Again, all of menace's transgressions are around his facilitator-skills. So this should be a facilitator review issue.

 

 

[jaybuck43]

I agree with miraclemet on this. There will spiral a whole complaint about negative feedback. At least here in the PL we have a section to air grievances and get to the bottom of things, who is going to moderate the feedback section? We know CGC doesn't want to do that stuff, we police transactions not them.

[N/A]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Ok. So now we're up to 3 issues and the rest as I asked earlier is hearsay.

[Logan510]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Were you reimbursed any money out of pocket for this transaction?

 

Eventually, so what you are saying is that as long as Menace refunds someone he screwed over then it's OK and he should be allowed to keep doing it? How about in Jdubs case where Menace received the book back in July, he then ignored pm's, emails, and facebook message from Jdub and didn't respond or refund him until the after he was added to the probie thread this week?

 

He wouldn't be the first to do that. I honestly don't know why people here let other people get away with that stuff.

[N/A]

 

A change I think we could make and I believe Arch might go along with if there was a consensus for it would be converting the kudos threads to feedback threads. Unfortunately, there is some very vocal opposition to doing anything that might inconvenience sellers.

 

I think the probelm with getting this kind of change in place is that there's no regulation on a thread, and they would quickly turn into a downward spiraling festival of modifier notifications and scrubbings, and CGC mods understandably dont want to get into that business.

 

Think of all the administration surrounding ebay feedback... and they are BUILT for this kind of stuff. CGC Message boards arent.

 

I agree it would be useful, but the overhead/admin makes it near-impossible to implement.

 

+1

 

We really should consider ourselves lucky they continue to allow us to sell here at all

 

Or secretly hope they shut it down.

[Bosco685]

Wow!

 

This place exploded in only one day.

[MrDeafComics]

Sent out medias slab.

 

9114901123086026909379

 

 

In my defense I did keep in contact and even offered him freebies for the delay. Also offered a free slab earlier this week to not post me but didn't realize he did already.

 

 

 

My finals went well and yesterday was my last day of the semester. Thank you guys and have a good holiday.

 

Brian

 

[jsilverjanet]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

 

+1

 

 

[sacentaur]

I found it kind of ironic that one of the people who wanted to put Beerbohm in the HoS for an old off-board transaction is one of the most vocal people against any restrictions whatever on sellers -- no wait time to sell, no fb, nada. Seemed a tad inconsistent somehow ….

 

Let's not confuse the issue by mixing personalities and conduct.

 

Beerbohm shafted a victim of $3,600 7 months ago, ignored his emails, ignored his phone calls, all the while making endless excuses while still smoothly running his ebay store normally.

 

He even proceeded to sell some of the pulps that he had "sold" to the victim, making fulfillment of the transaction impossible.

 

It's not his daughter's alleged never-ending medical situation, it's not West Nile Virus, it's not bullying, it's not his supposed mental issues, it's not an address mix-up, it's not his hip problem, it's not his hernia surgery, it's not his Wiki page, it's not his failed legal maneuverings, it's not the hot weather, it's not the cold weather, it's not that ebay takes priority, it's not how many dead celebrities that he's had his picture taken with, it's not he's too busy on Facebook, it's not his convention woes, it's not that he continues to cultivate a false image as hobby legend, it's not his faulty memory, it's not how many lawyers he knows, it's not his manipulation of vintage prices in the OSPG, it's not his slandering of his accusers, and it's not his inane ramblings here on this Board.

 

It's grand theft, which a felony. That is the bottom line. No confusion, no rationalizations, and no excuses.

[comix4fun]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Ok. So now we're up to 3 issues and the rest as I asked earlier is hearsay.

 

 

If one of those issues involves up to 10 people not getting their books because of an unreasonable and inexcusable delay on his part. I am reluctant to dismiss it as a single issue. Each of those people has an issue with him, don't they?

 

Otherwise we'd have a precedent, for example, for someone who ran a sales thread and did not deliver to 20 different people that it was just one issue because it was just one thread.

[Aces]

 

A change I think we could make and I believe Arch might go along with if there was a consensus for it would be converting the kudos threads to feedback threads. Unfortunately, there is some very vocal opposition to doing anything that might inconvenience sellers.

 

I think the probelm with getting this kind of change in place is that there's no regulation on a thread, and they would quickly turn into a downward spiraling festival of modifier notifications and scrubbings, and CGC mods understandably dont want to get into that business.

 

Think of all the administration surrounding ebay feedback... and they are BUILT for this kind of stuff. CGC Message boards arent.

 

I agree it would be useful, but the overhead/admin makes it near-impossible to implement.

If they allowed negative kudos there would be an explosion in the pernts people would be getting.

[Bosco685]

Otherwise we'd have a precedent, for example, for someone who ran a sales thread and did not deliver to 20 different people that it was just one issue because it was just one thread.

 

The Cap Freak rule. "It was only one problem - with just a few board members involved".

 

I think that kept him going for a few years, didn't it?

[jaybuck43]

Except don't we need all 10 of those people to come in here and make a complaint? Maybe the other 9 have spoken to the dealer and are fine with the delay? Maybe they know more of whats going on? I think you have to count issue based on the number of people complaining about the transaction, not the number of people affected. If I sell 3 books in a sale to three different buyers and buyer 1 nominates me for PL because I haven't spoken to them and they haven't gotten their book after 6 months, that doesn't mean the other people are in the same boat. I may have PMd them and said "hey im running behind, so sorry can I send it to you in December? and Ill send you a free book".

[N/A]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Ok. So now we're up to 3 issues and the rest as I asked earlier is hearsay.

 

 

If one of those issues involves up to 10 people not getting their books because of an unreasonable and inexcusable delay on his part. I am reluctant to dismiss it as a single issue. Each of those people has an issue with him, don't they?

 

Otherwise we'd have a precedent, for example, for someone who ran a sales thread and did not deliver to 20 different people that it was just one issue because it was just one thread.

 

I disagree. There may be a number of reparations since there are a number of complaints but the root cause is one issue. If a number of comic shops do not receive their orders because a truck was in an accident then it is one issue or one problem with many ramifications.

 

Your example of one thread is many individual issues because the singularity you are referring to is the platform used and not the issue which caused the transaction(s) to go awry. In other words if the issue in the case of the sketch opp creates an all or nothing situation. Your example, is a list of possibly mutually exclusive events with something in common.

[N/A]

Except don't we need all 10 of those people to come in here and make a complaint? Maybe the other 9 have spoken to the dealer and are fine with the delay? Maybe they know more of whats going on? I think you have to count issue based on the number of people complaining about the transaction, not the number of people affected. If I sell 3 books in a sale to three different buyers and buyer 1 nominates me for PL because I haven't spoken to them and they haven't gotten their book after 6 months, that doesn't mean the other people are in the same boat. I may have PMd them and said "hey im running behind, so sorry can I send it to you in December? and Ill send you a free book".

 

I still think it depends on the cause. If there is a single reason for not completing any of a number of transactions then there is only one issue. In other words, for the next time, the seller need only fix the single issue.

[TheMightyJohn]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Ok. So now we're up to 3 issues and the rest as I asked earlier is hearsay.

 

 

If one of those issues involves up to 10 people not getting their books because of an unreasonable and inexcusable delay on his part. I am reluctant to dismiss it as a single issue. Each of those people has an issue with him, don't they?

 

Otherwise we'd have a precedent, for example, for someone who ran a sales thread and did not deliver to 20 different people that it was just one issue because it was just one thread.

 

+1