PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[mikenyc]

Sharon is right about having the book in hand prior to the sale, it would help to avoid certain situations like these.

 

The book turned out to have a flaw that was unknown to the buyer and seller alike. The seller assumed the flaw was something different. Once the book was in hand and the flaw became known the buyer should not have to complete the transaction.

 

My

 

[MetalPSI]

so what happens next. It seems both parties have people in their corner but nothing that really matters (I don't think a vote takes place for these things or do they?) both parties need to come to some resolution, correct?

 

 

I agree with that.

 

I am not taking sides in either case, I think this can be sorted out between them.

 

That stain is a factor that is just unfortunate. I think the buyer should be allowed to back out because of the stain and I think the seller should allow it because they can probably still unload this book to a willing buyer. Its a beautiful book.

 

I just don't see a loss for either party here. Maybe to the seller for having to post it for sale and wait for another buyer. That is valid, being unsure if able to unload the book.

[comix4fun]

 

I don't blame you for missing that stain. You didn't have it in hand or go through it to closely when you did have it (as you mentioned). Anyone could have missed that stain.

 

Many people consider stains in the same distasteful vein as rusty staples and foxing.

Thus not all books in the same grade are really the same.

 

As a seller if I even potentially, somewhat, intimated that there was no stain I don't know if I could hold a buyer to his end of the deal if my description turned out to be incorrect even if I was only stating an opinion. People make decisions based on the claims and opinions of sellers. If I turned out to be dead wrong I could not imagine holding my customer liable to hit a moving target of a description.

 

 

 

I agree with everything you've said. This is a home purchase situation. The sale was made, the contract was signed, but the inspector found a cracked foundation.

 

Yeah but in this case you just can't go to CGC and say, HEY, you gotta fix this stain you found.

 

In your analogy someone comes along and fixes the foundation (or does a shoddy patch job and unloads it on someone else) regardless if the buyer backs out or keeps the place.

 

Oh, and I agree with comix4fun too

 

 

I think he was just referring to the fact that an inspector finding a material flaw in the agreed upon item invalidates the agreement and allows the parties to rescind the deal without penalty to either party.

 

If that is part of the initial offer ie will buy the house pending an inspection. Sometimes a house is sold as is.

 

I think the best option is for Dan and Bob to take a breather and see it from each other's point of view.

 

 

Even "as is" houses have to match their description/disclosures or the deal is voidable.

[HarveySwick]

Sharon is right about having the book in hand prior to the sale, it would help to avoid certain situations like these.

 

The book turned out to have a flaw that was unknown to the buyer and seller alike. The seller assumed the flaw was something different. Once the book was in hand and the flaw became known the buyer should not have to complete the transaction.

 

My

+1 (thumbs u

 

So what do we do? Does Bob just go on the PL unless he buys it? There's no vote for this, right?

[erazer]

I think the issue here is that the seller was initially offered a better deal than the cash value. So while he can resell it and make his original asking price, it won't make up for the loss in what he was going to receive in trade value.

 

Had this been a cash deal from the beginning, I bet there'd have been no probation list post when the buyer wanted out.

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

Sharon is right about having the book in hand prior to the sale, it would help to avoid certain situations like these.

 

The book turned out to have a flaw that was unknown to the buyer and seller alike. The seller assumed the flaw was something different. Once the book was in hand and the flaw became known the buyer should not have to complete the transaction.

 

My

+1 (thumbs u

 

So what do we do? Does Bob just go on the PL unless he buys it? There's no vote for this, right?

 

I DO NOT THINK BOB SHOULD BE PUT ON THE PL. This is not his fault or Dan's fault. You too need to walk away before you forever hate each other.

[comix4fun]

I just want to re-post one of my early posts in this thread...

 

Bob seems like a nice guy, so I hate that it has to come to this. I don't do a lot of trading, and I was kind of enjoying it.

 

But their are consequences for our actions. If their weren't, people would back out all the time.

 

 

 

One of those actions that bear consequences would be forwarding an opinion of a "stain" as "not a stain" though, and having that opinion be wrong after the buyer commits, right?

 

 

This isn't ALL on Bob, is it?

 

 

[Logan510]

No offense to anyone but not all of the same grade are created equal. There is no guaranty that one 8.0 will sell for the same as another of the same book in 8.0, in fact we see price variations all the time.

 

Stains are among the biggest bugaboos in this hobby and I would have a hard time believing 8.0 or not that a book with a stain would garner top price for grade.

 

IMHO the stain is the deal breaker and since the buyer was not aware of it until after he was able to obtain grader notes, he should be allowed to back out of the deal without repercussion. I'd also like to add that the notion that the buyer should reimburse the seller monetarily for something is ridiculous.

[MetalPSI]

Sharon is right about having the book in hand prior to the sale, it would help to avoid certain situations like these.

 

The book turned out to have a flaw that was unknown to the buyer and seller alike. The seller assumed the flaw was something different. Once the book was in hand and the flaw became known the buyer should not have to complete the transaction.

 

My

+1 (thumbs u

 

So what do we do? Does Bob just go on the PL unless he buys it? There's no vote for this, right?

 

I DO NOT THINK BOB SHOULD BE PUT ON THE PL. This is not his fault or Dan's fault. You too need to walk away before you forever hate each other.

 

+1 It's not worth getting bent out of shape. Seller keeps a beautiful book and buyer moves on.

[mikenyc]

Every single issue that ever has legal intervention can, in theory, be solved by the two parties.

 

It's silly for people to say they will or should solve this on their own. They won't, which is why this is being aired out publicly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spider-Dan]

Sharon is right about having the book in hand prior to the sale, it would help to avoid certain situations like these.

 

The book turned out to have a flaw that was unknown to the buyer and seller alike. The seller assumed the flaw was something different. Once the book was in hand and the flaw became known the buyer should not have to complete the transaction.

 

My

+1 (thumbs u

 

So what do we do? Does Bob just go on the PL unless he buys it? There's no vote for this, right?

 

I DO NOT THINK BOB SHOULD BE PUT ON THE PL. This is not his fault or Dan's fault. You too need to walk away before you forever hate each other.

 

I don't hate anyone, nor will I. This PM was sent to the buyer after the 2nd attempt to change the deal

 

Just so we are clear none of my PM'S where sent with any venom. Hard to tell in a message

 

 

[comix4fun]

Not really anything to do with the conversation at hand (or maybe it does), but a comparison of apples and oranges.

 

Dan's copy raw...that is now a slabbed 8.0

 

 

 

Sparkle City's copy that sold on 6/23/13 for almost $14,500...

 

 

 

Sparkle City's copy sports lesser page quality as well as the possible Marvel chipping at the top of cover. Definitely a lesser copy compared to Dan's.

 

Again this is nothing against Bob, but perhaps he is really wanting a 8.5+ copy of this book for an 8.0 price. Looking at these two examples (no serial # listed on GPA of the last sale)... I really don't see what he's going to find in this price range that's any better

 

 

They're both Ow/w and Dan's copy has small chips out of or starting at the right edge....take out the darkness of the sparkle city scan and they look pretty close. I certainly don't see a 10%+ premium IMHO

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

Sharon is right about having the book in hand prior to the sale, it would help to avoid certain situations like these.

 

The book turned out to have a flaw that was unknown to the buyer and seller alike. The seller assumed the flaw was something different. Once the book was in hand and the flaw became known the buyer should not have to complete the transaction.

 

My

+1 (thumbs u

 

So what do we do? Does Bob just go on the PL unless he buys it? There's no vote for this, right?

 

I DO NOT THINK BOB SHOULD BE PUT ON THE PL. This is not his fault or Dan's fault. You too need to walk away before you forever hate each other.

 

+1 It's not worth getting bent out of shape. Seller keeps a beautiful book and buyer moves on.

 

No, this is my total honest opinion:

 

Bomber bob: You made a trade in which you knew you weren't coming out on top, but you wanted a nice book. You got buyers remorse on a book and tried to adjust the offer. For that you are at fault. Then you found out about the stain. That is neither of your fault's.

 

Spider Dan: You had a good thing coming. A sweet trade in which you came out on top. Then Bob wanted to adjust it to all cash, the same thing you would have originally accepted, but you got greedy and wanted the trade back. For this you are at fault. Then Bob found out about the stain. That is neither of your fault's.

 

 

You both made a mistake in the transaction, and there was an unfortunate problem with the stain. At this point it is best for both of you to totally walk away from this situation. It will only become a grudge you will both stew on. Shake hands and move on. A comic should never ruin a friendship.

 

 

 

[skypinkblu]

I just want to re-post one of my early posts in this thread...

 

Bob seems like a nice guy, so I hate that it has to come to this. I don't do a lot of trading, and I was kind of enjoying it.

 

But their are consequences for our actions. If their weren't, people would back out all the time.

 

Dan, I find your answers very honest,you admitted that Bob's offer was a better deal than what you asked for originally and you admitted selling before you had the book back so you could maximize your profit. I applaud you for that.

 

However you must see that your actions also have consequences. You sold a book before you had it in hand, and before you had the graders notes. You made a statement about a "stain" that turned out to be in error.

 

 

So, I think there are errors on both sides.

 

Bob's error was making an offer of a trade to begin with. This is why I don't love trades, i'd always have traders regret.

 

However, I can absolutely see where his offer of cash should have solved the problem, he was offering full asking price. You on the other hand saw a better deal and you wanted that. The fact that you later would have accepted the full price (after getting the book back) just further muddies the waters.

 

The end part, the part with the stain, well that's more on you.

 

I would really love to see you both just walk away and call it a day.

 

I don't see any other reasonable solution here.

[MetalPSI]

Every single issue that ever has legal intervention can, in theory, be solved by the two parties.

 

It's silly for people to say they will or should solve this on their own. They won't, which is why this is being aired out publicly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

Bust a deal, face the wheel.

 

[skypinkblu]

If I had just looked before typing, I could have saved myself the time and just +1'd;)

[Bio-Rupp]

No offense to anyone but not all of the same grade are created equal. There is no guaranty that one 8.0 will sell for the same as another of the same book in 8.0, in fact we see price variations all the time.

 

Stains are among the biggest bugaboos in this hobby and I would have a hard time believing 8.0 or not that a book with a stain would garner top price for grade.

 

IMHO the stain is the deal breaker and since the buyer was not aware of it until after he was able to obtain grader notes, he should be allowed to back out of the deal without repercussion. I'd also like to add that the notion that the buyer should reimburse the seller monetarily for something is ridiculous.

 

I do agree with you here Casey.

 

I do not agree with your spelling of guarantee though

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

I would like to make it clear, I do not think there is anything wrong with accepting or negotiating a trade in your favor Dan, there is something wrong with then turning down a fair offer of $16k cash.

[CAHokie]

Sharon is right about having the book in hand prior to the sale, it would help to avoid certain situations like these.

 

The book turned out to have a flaw that was unknown to the buyer and seller alike. The seller assumed the flaw was something different. Once the book was in hand and the flaw became known the buyer should not have to complete the transaction.

 

My

+1 (thumbs u

 

So what do we do? Does Bob just go on the PL unless he buys it? There's no vote for this, right?

 

I DO NOT THINK BOB SHOULD BE PUT ON THE PL. This is not his fault or Dan's fault. You too need to walk away before you forever hate each other.

 

+1 It's not worth getting bent out of shape. Seller keeps a beautiful book and buyer moves on.

 

No, this is my total honest opinion:

 

Bomber bob: You made a trade in which you knew you weren't coming out on top, but you wanted a nice book. You got buyers remorse on a book and tried to adjust the offer. For that you are at fault. Then you found out about the stain. That is neither of your fault's.

 

Spider Dan: You had a good thing coming. A sweet trade in which you came out on top. Then Bob wanted to adjust it to all cash, the same thing you would have originally accepted, but you got greedy and wanted the trade back. For this you are at fault. Then Bob found out about the stain. That is neither of your fault's.

 

 

You both made a mistake in the transaction, and there was an unfortunate problem with the stain. At this point it is best for both of you to totally walk away from this situation. It will only become a grudge you will both stew on. Shake hands and move on. A comic should never ruin a friendship.

 

 

 

This was a well written thought. What have you done with my buddy GiJoe?

[Bio-Rupp]

Not really anything to do with the conversation at hand (or maybe it does), but a comparison of apples and oranges.

 

Dan's copy raw...that is now a slabbed 8.0

 

 

 

Sparkle City's copy that sold on 6/23/13 for almost $14,500...

 

 

 

Sparkle City's copy sports lesser page quality as well as the possible Marvel chipping at the top of cover. Definitely a lesser copy compared to Dan's.

 

Again this is nothing against Bob, but perhaps he is really wanting a 8.5+ copy of this book for an 8.0 price. Looking at these two examples (no serial # listed on GPA of the last sale)... I really don't see what he's going to find in this price range that's any better

 

 

They're both Ow/w and Dan's copy has small chips out of or starting at the right edge....take out the darkness of the sparkle city scan and they look pretty close. I certainly don't see a 10%+ premium IMHO

 

My bad on the page quality... the last copy that sold at $15000 according to GPA had the lesser page quality of OW.

 

xxx ooo

 

Rupp