PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[joeypost]

This.

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

Additionally anyone selling a book of this value should pony up and include the CGC notes. It would eliminate any confusion. Even if they are shared via PM to any prospective buyers.

 

 

[Bosco685]

Good rules of thumb:

And remember, if someone asks you a question you don't want to give an answer to, use this line.

 

"I'll break you in half, like a boy"

 

[Speedy-D]

Good rules of thumb:

And remember, if someone asks you a question you don't want to give an answer to, use this line.

 

"I'll break you in half, like a boy"

 

[Bio-Rupp]

Good rules of thumb:

And remember, if someone asks you a question you don't want to give an answer to, use this line.

 

"I'll break you in half, like a boy"

 

 

Someone is watching the news this morning

[Bosco685]

[Spider-Dan]

This.

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

Additionally anyone selling a book of this value should pony up and include the CGC notes. It would eliminate any confusion. Even if they are shared via PM to any prospective buyers.

 

 

When spending $400+ to have a book graded, CGC should include the graders notes and not gouge another $15 out someone spending that kind of cash

 

In the few years I've been a member, Ive NEVER seen graders notes included in a sales thread. Ive seen a lot of personal opinions... prefect registration, tough book in high grade, bright colors... etc. All which could be debated

[HarveySwick]

Good rules of thumb:

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

2. If you don't know the answer to a question about the condition of a comic, don't guess. From what I've been told, legally speaking, saying "I think" does not absolve you from having set an expectation about the condition of the comic in the buyer's mind.

 

3. If you agree to a deal, don't try to change it. If you agreed to a trade plus cash, it's not cool to switch it up, especially if doing so means less for the other party.

 

4. If you're a "picky collector" who will back out of a deal for a graded comic because of something like graders' notes to which you do not yet have access, don't put up an unconditional . Stipulate that it's dependent on graders' notes, or a final inspection of the comic, or whatever. (This would be mitigated to a decent extent if the seller were following the first point.)

 

5. If, after a few attempts to alter a deal for whatever reason, you cancel it for yet another reason, you're going to look a little fishy. As many have said, Bob was probably not being fishy. He probably really did have too much time to ponder his deal and thereby made himself regret it, but nonetheless, that set him up to look like less than a straight shooter when, in the end, he backed out on account of the graders' notes.

Great points to take away from this whole mess.

 

I think we should change the selling guidelines to include them!

 

[Speedy-D]

Good rules of thumb:

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

2. If you don't know the answer to a question about the condition of a comic, don't guess. From what I've been told, legally speaking, saying "I think" does not absolve you from having set an expectation about the condition of the comic in the buyer's mind.

 

3. If you agree to a deal, don't try to change it. If you agreed to a trade plus cash, it's not cool to switch it up, especially if doing so means less for the other party.

 

4. If you're a "picky collector" who will back out of a deal for a graded comic because of something like graders' notes to which you do not yet have access, don't put up an unconditional . Stipulate that it's dependent on graders' notes, or a final inspection of the comic, or whatever. (This would be mitigated to a decent extent if the seller were following the first point.)

 

5. If, after a few attempts to alter a deal for whatever reason, you cancel it for yet another reason, you're going to look a little fishy. As many have said, Bob was probably not being fishy. He probably really did have too much time to ponder his deal and thereby made himself regret it, but nonetheless, that set him up to look like less than a straight shooter when, in the end, he backed out on account of the graders' notes.

Great points to take away from this whole mess.

 

I think we should change the selling guidelines to include them!

 

Having obviously not learned my lesson about the pitfalls of trying to be helpful (poor me!!), I'd be down for #1 to be a rule. When I first got here, people talked about it a lot and I thought it was a rule. But then I could never actually find where it was written down.

[Iceman399]

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

Good luck with this one. Especially when it comes guys making steam on the hot modern comics or the next movie rumor. As Dan mentioned he tried to time the sale to maximize what he was getting for his book (just like the modern guys). They want to be first to market to maximize the peak, as the deal went on and GPA dropped and had he waited he lost out on potential money. This happens all the time with Con goers as well as someone selling the "next book".

 

Batman adventures 12 skyrocketed late last year with copies trending up to $1000, now you can easily pick the same copy up for $700, those guys that sold on route to them did better as their were few copies on the market and the demand was highest.

 

Beachbum and others often sell convention exclusives and offer 9.8 fast track etc the day they get to the con.

 

Personally I don't pre sell as I don't have the same access as others but just like any business connections and the ability to do so often yield $$$.

 

**edit** This can also be applied to such things as SS opps or commission pieces, hey the sig is slightly tilted I don't want it, the green is too dark on the character. Now we would expect these guys to stand in line get books signed and hope they don't get stuck holding books because of silly reasons they are allowed to back out of?

Edited January 29, 2014 by iceman399

[Balham's Finest]

Good rules of thumb:

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

2. If you don't know the answer to a question about the condition of a comic, don't guess. From what I've been told, legally speaking, saying "I think" does not absolve you from having set an expectation about the condition of the comic in the buyer's mind.

 

3. If you agree to a deal, don't try to change it. If you agreed to a trade plus cash, it's not cool to switch it up, especially if doing so means less for the other party.

 

4. If you're a "picky collector" who will back out of a deal for a graded comic because of something like graders' notes to which you do not yet have access, don't put up an unconditional . Stipulate that it's dependent on graders' notes, or a final inspection of the comic, or whatever. (This would be mitigated to a decent extent if the seller were following the first point.)

 

5. If, after a few attempts to alter a deal for whatever reason, you cancel it for yet another reason, you're going to look a little fishy. As many have said, Bob was probably not being fishy. He probably really did have too much time to ponder his deal and thereby made himself regret it, but nonetheless, that set him up to look like less than a straight shooter when, in the end, he backed out on account of the graders' notes.

Great points to take away from this whole mess.

 

I think we should change the selling guidelines to include them!

 

Having obviously not learned my lesson about the pitfalls of trying to be helpful (poor me!!), I'd be down for #1 to be a rule. When I first got here, people talked about it a lot and I thought it was a rule. But then I could never actually find where it was written down.

 

If someone lists a book that they have in hand, but refuses to answer questions about it, we wouldn't prevent them from selling it (although of course most people would probably be suspicious and not buy). On that basis I don't see why you'd stop someone who would answer questions but can't because they don't have the book in hand from doing so.

 

If this story tells us anything, it's that buyer and seller should be very clear on what the terms of the deal are, especially so in cases where the book is en route to CGC or whatever.

 

I think making #1 a rule would be going too far.

[Ryan.]

Good rules of thumb:

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

2. If you don't know the answer to a question about the condition of a comic, don't guess. From what I've been told, legally speaking, saying "I think" does not absolve you from having set an expectation about the condition of the comic in the buyer's mind.

 

3. If you agree to a deal, don't try to change it. If you agreed to a trade plus cash, it's not cool to switch it up, especially if doing so means less for the other party.

 

4. If you're a "picky collector" who will back out of a deal for a graded comic because of something like graders' notes to which you do not yet have access, don't put up an unconditional . Stipulate that it's dependent on graders' notes, or a final inspection of the comic, or whatever. (This would be mitigated to a decent extent if the seller were following the first point.)

 

5. If, after a few attempts to alter a deal for whatever reason, you cancel it for yet another reason, you're going to look a little fishy. As many have said, Bob was probably not being fishy. He probably really did have too much time to ponder his deal and thereby made himself regret it, but nonetheless, that set him up to look like less than a straight shooter when, in the end, he backed out on account of the graders' notes.

Great points to take away from this whole mess.

 

I think we should change the selling guidelines to include them!

 

Having obviously not learned my lesson about the pitfalls of trying to be helpful (poor me!!), I'd be down for #1 to be a rule. When I first got here, people talked about it a lot and I thought it was a rule. But then I could never actually find where it was written down.

 

That's a rule I will support.

[N/A]

Good rules of thumb:

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

2. If you don't know the answer to a question about the condition of a comic, don't guess. From what I've been told, legally speaking, saying "I think" does not absolve you from having set an expectation about the condition of the comic in the buyer's mind.

 

3. If you agree to a deal, don't try to change it. If you agreed to a trade plus cash, it's not cool to switch it up, especially if doing so means less for the other party.

 

4. If you're a "picky collector" who will back out of a deal for a graded comic because of something like graders' notes to which you do not yet have access, don't put up an unconditional . Stipulate that it's dependent on graders' notes, or a final inspection of the comic, or whatever. (This would be mitigated to a decent extent if the seller were following the first point.)

 

5. If, after a few attempts to alter a deal for whatever reason, you cancel it for yet another reason, you're going to look a little fishy. As many have said, Bob was probably not being fishy. He probably really did have too much time to ponder his deal and thereby made himself regret it, but nonetheless, that set him up to look like less than a straight shooter when, in the end, he backed out on account of the graders' notes.

Great points to take away from this whole mess.

 

I think we should change the selling guidelines to include them!

 

Having obviously not learned my lesson about the pitfalls of trying to be helpful (poor me!!), I'd be down for #1 to be a rule. When I first got here, people talked about it a lot and I thought it was a rule. But then I could never actually find where it was written down.

 

That's a rule I will support.

 

Even for CGC books? No thanks.

[HarveySwick]

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

Good luck with this one. Especially when it comes guys making steam on the hot modern comics or the next movie rumor. As Dan mentioned he tried to time the sale to maximize what he was getting for his book (just like the modern guys). They want to be first to market to maximize the peak, as the deal went on and GPA dropped and had he waited he lost out on potential money. This happens all the time with Con goers as well as someone selling the "next book".

 

Batman adventures 12 skyrocketed late last year with copies trending up to $1000, now you can easily pick the same copy up for $700, those guys that sold on route to them did better as their were few copies on the market and the demand was highest.

 

Beachbum and others often sell convention exclusives and offer 9.8 fast track etc the day they get to the con.

 

Personally I don't pre sell as I don't have the same access as others but just like any business connections and the ability to do so often yield $$$.

 

**edit** This can also be applied to such things as SS opps or commission pieces, hey the sig is slightly tilted I don't want it, the green is too dark on the character. Now we would expect these guys to stand in line get books signed and hope they don't get stuck holding books because of silly reasons they are allowed to back out of?

This is why I wouldn't agree with adding it to the rules.

 

While I do agree that all 8.0's are not created equally and it's easy to tell some are much nicer than others with wraps, PQ, presentability. But, I think it's pretty safe to assume a modern 9.8 is a modern 9.8. They're always white pages and miswraps seem a thing of the past.

 

It really comes down to Bob's unconditional . If he was a picky collector he should have taken it pending scans. In that case I would normally side with the seller.

 

But I can't look past "I don't think it's a stain".

 

I think something like this isn't the norm necessitating an addition to the rules.

[Iceman399]

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

Good luck with this one. Especially when it comes guys making steam on the hot modern comics or the next movie rumor. As Dan mentioned he tried to time the sale to maximize what he was getting for his book (just like the modern guys). They want to be first to market to maximize the peak, as the deal went on and GPA dropped and had he waited he lost out on potential money. This happens all the time with Con goers as well as someone selling the "next book".

 

Batman adventures 12 skyrocketed late last year with copies trending up to $1000, now you can easily pick the same copy up for $700, those guys that sold on route to them did better as their were few copies on the market and the demand was highest.

 

Beachbum and others often sell convention exclusives and offer 9.8 fast track etc the day they get to the con.

 

Personally I don't pre sell as I don't have the same access as others but just like any business connections and the ability to do so often yield $$$.

 

**edit** This can also be applied to such things as SS opps or commission pieces, hey the sig is slightly tilted I don't want it, the green is too dark on the character. Now we would expect these guys to stand in line get books signed and hope they don't get stuck holding books because of silly reasons they are allowed to back out of?

This is why I wouldn't agree with adding it to the rules.

 

While I do agree that all 8.0's are not created equally and it's easy to tell some are much nicer than others with wraps, PQ, presentability. But, I think it's pretty safe to assume a modern 9.8 is a modern 9.8. They're always white pages and miswraps seem a thing of the past.

 

It really comes down to Bob's unconditional . If he was a picky collector he should have taken it pending scans. In that case I would normally side with the seller.

 

But I can't look past "I don't think it's a stain".

 

I think something like this isn't the norm necessitating an addition to the rules.

 

Doesn't have to be a modern, I have been looking for 2 copper books and the miswraps or white spines have been the reason I won't pull the trigger on them. Think of ASM 129, believe you were looking for a well wrapped book. If tomorrow they announced that there was going to be a new ASM vs Punisher movie do you think ppl would be selling books before they had them in hand? Absolutely there would be a mad rush on them and as soon as they had grades from cgc up go a few pre sub pics and the cgc grade.

 

 

[seanfingh]

This.

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

Additionally anyone selling a book of this value should pony up and include the CGC notes. It would eliminate any confusion. Even if they are shared via PM to any prospective buyers.

 

 

When spending $400+ to have a book graded, CGC should include the graders notes and not gouge another $15 out someone spending that kind of cash

 

In the few years I've been a member, Ive NEVER seen graders notes included in a sales thread. Ive seen a lot of personal opinions... prefect registration, tough book in high grade, bright colors... etc. All which could be debated

 

One thing that can't be debated - that is a stain and not a "trick of the light," sunspot activity, a weather balloon or swamp gas reflected off of Venus.

[Sqeggs]

So ... I would say:

 

1. I don't think the buyer should be put on the PL. I follow the PL thread only intermittently, but I don't know of another case where a seller has been allowed to put a buyer on the PL when there has been this much doubt and ambiguity.

 

2. If we put someone like the buyer on the PL because of a case like this doesn't it undermine the credibility of the PL? Isn't the PL meant to be a "steer clear of" list for buyers and sellers? Would anyone feel they needed to steer clear of this buyer because of this episode?

 

3. Essentially, this is a case of a buyer wanting to return a book that was materially misrepresented by the seller. (I realize that the book wasn't sent and the money wasn't paid, but basically this amounts to a case of an attempted return.). The misrepresentation by the seller was inadvertent, but an 8.0 without a stain (which is what the seller claimed he was selling) is a significantly different book than an 8.0 with a stain that (according to CGC) goes through the whole book.

 

I don't think there is much doubt that if this were an eBay/PayPal transaction, the seller would be obliged to take the book back and refund the buyer's money. I realize we are not operating under those rules, but do we really want buyers to have no protections and insist that all sales are on an "as is" basis?

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

Stupid question: Wouldn't SpiderDan have been able to see the stain before he submitted the book to CGC?

[Iceman399]

Stupid question: Wouldn't SpiderDan have been able to see the stain before he submitted the book to CGC?

 

Stupid answer go back and read all of the posts then come back and ask a non stupid question

[HarveySwick]

 

1. Don't sell comics before you have them in hand and can inspect them to answer any questions.

 

Good luck with this one. Especially when it comes guys making steam on the hot modern comics or the next movie rumor. As Dan mentioned he tried to time the sale to maximize what he was getting for his book (just like the modern guys). They want to be first to market to maximize the peak, as the deal went on and GPA dropped and had he waited he lost out on potential money. This happens all the time with Con goers as well as someone selling the "next book".

 

Batman adventures 12 skyrocketed late last year with copies trending up to $1000, now you can easily pick the same copy up for $700, those guys that sold on route to them did better as their were few copies on the market and the demand was highest.

 

Beachbum and others often sell convention exclusives and offer 9.8 fast track etc the day they get to the con.

 

Personally I don't pre sell as I don't have the same access as others but just like any business connections and the ability to do so often yield $$$.

 

**edit** This can also be applied to such things as SS opps or commission pieces, hey the sig is slightly tilted I don't want it, the green is too dark on the character. Now we would expect these guys to stand in line get books signed and hope they don't get stuck holding books because of silly reasons they are allowed to back out of?

This is why I wouldn't agree with adding it to the rules.

 

While I do agree that all 8.0's are not created equally and it's easy to tell some are much nicer than others with wraps, PQ, presentability. But, I think it's pretty safe to assume a modern 9.8 is a modern 9.8. They're always white pages and miswraps seem a thing of the past.

 

It really comes down to Bob's unconditional . If he was a picky collector he should have taken it pending scans. In that case I would normally side with the seller.

 

But I can't look past "I don't think it's a stain".

 

I think something like this isn't the norm necessitating an addition to the rules.

 

Doesn't have to be a modern, I have been looking for 2 copper books and the miswraps or white spines have been the reason I won't pull the trigger on them. Think of ASM 129, believe you were looking for a well wrapped book. If tomorrow they announced that there was going to be a new ASM vs Punisher movie do you think ppl would be selling books before they had them in hand? Absolutely there would be a mad rush on them and as soon as they had grades from cgc up go a few pre sub pics and the cgc grade.

 

I agreed with you.

 

I was saying that the rule would apply to everything (incl. CA) but Moderns. I think Moderns are the only place that all 9.8's are the same!

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

Stupid question: Wouldn't SpiderDan have been able to see the stain before he submitted the book to CGC?

 

Stupid answer go back and read all of the posts then come back and ask a non stupid question

 

I've already read through this whole thing-that obviously didn't stick. Anyone up to giving a simple answer?