PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Sqeggs]

I don't want to have any hard feelings with anyone and I regret if anyone has any hard feelings with me.

 

It wasn't my intention.

 

I have a busload of kids waiting on me and I've spent enough time on here.

 

I hope everyone has a good New Year.

 

 

I've read through (most!) of this and I can appreciate that your friendship with Chip and the toll mental illness has taken on your family cause you to sympathize with him.

 

I get the impression, though, that you are against putting Chip in the HOS. It's just an impression because -- unless I missed it -- you don't seem to have stated your position clearly.

 

To me, at this point, given that Chip appears to have a record of misbehavior in buying and selling that dates back more than 20 years, I think putting him in the HOS is a step needed to warn boardies who might be considering doing deals with him.

 

My sympathies lie with the people who have been taken advantage of.

[awakeintheashes]

Just want to be sure my scorecard is correct

 

Pro Chip

Vintage

Red84

 

 

 

Anti Chip

Everyone else

 

 

 

If you don't get your books you've been Chipped

 

 

This will give a whole new meaning to the term "No Chipping" in sales threads.

[VintageComics]

I don't want to have any hard feelings with anyone and I regret if anyone has any hard feelings with me.

 

It wasn't my intention.

 

I have a busload of kids waiting on me and I've spent enough time on here.

 

I hope everyone has a good New Year.

 

 

I've read through (most!) of this and I can appreciate that your friendship with Chip and the toll mental illness has taken on your family cause you to sympathize with him.

 

I get the impression, though, that you are against putting Chip in the HOS. It's just an impression because -- unless I missed it -- you don't seem to have stated your position clearly.

 

To me, at this point, given that Chip appears to have a record of misbehavior in buying and selling that dates back more than 20 years, I think putting him in the HOS is a step needed to warn boardies who might be considering doing deals with him.

 

My sympathies lie with the people who have been taken advantage of.

 

I thought I've been pretty detailed and I don't want to keep reopening it. It is complicated for me.

 

My sympathies lie towards both.

 

And I'd be happy to make those who have lost money whole but I know that won't help Chip in the long run.

 

I've probably interacted with Chip more than most (although there are a few other board members that I know that consigned many books through Chip and I'll reach out to them to see how they feel as well) and I'm under the impression that Chip is not so much a thief has he is poor at self management.

 

I believe based on my own experiences and my interactions with Chip that his struggle with mental illness is real and not manufactured to gain sympathy.

 

I also believe that for the best of the community he should go into the HOS so that people are aware of his tendency to not ship or communicate when he's overwhelmed.

 

Because of my relatively close relationship with Chip I'm unsure if I can be objective about this but I don't oppose anyone who believes he should be in the HOS.

 

If I had to vote (let's say I was the deciding vote) I'd vote to have him in the HOS to preserve the integrity of the community but what keeps me from going all in on that from the start is how much I know about Chip,, our history together and how I feel about treating people who I believe are mentally ill.

 

If it was an acute situation like where there is immediate fear of loss or damages as when I had to choose between my own brother or not, I cut him out of my life without a second thought and sent a warning to all immediate family and friends. But that was a volatile and acute situation with a lot of tension and possibility of immediate loss and injury.

 

In a chronic situation like this the word is getting out through all the appropriate channels without my vote so I prefer to leave it to the majority. If I'm wrong nobody gets hurt and I just have egg on my face, which is the way I'd prefer it.

 

I know it's not the answer most want to hear but I support you all in your decision.

 

It's the best I can do.

 

If anyone wants me to reach out to Chip personally or has any questions or concerns, I can offer that as I do have his personal contact info. Feel free to message me.

 

 

 

[HarveySwick]

 

A Lifetime Original.

 

A Song for Chip.

[JAM_NYC]

 

 

[Logan510]

 

A Lifetime Original.

 

A Song for Chip.

 

Does it make me a bad person that I find that amusing?

[revat]

I think all of us would want to take actions to protect the community and prevent people from lying and/or stealing as it relates to the sales of comics, or at minimum to compel people to complete transactions they agreed upon. And I don't think anyone on any side of the argument would disagree with that.

 

From my reading (admittedly halfheartedly read on my cracked iphone screen whilst watching househunters), it seems like some parties believe that some level of mental health issues may be a factor in the behavior, while other parties either dismiss the relevance (the facts are the facts either way) or don't believe it to be true.

 

For myself, I completely believe mental/psychological issues are a factor here, although I've never met the person or had a transaction with him, nor am I a trained psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist (or anything really [although in past life I was an Engineer-in-training]). Which isn't also to say that possibly or probably fraud, theft, manipulation, or lying hasn't occurred, as those can happen whether mental health is impaired or not.

 

What I think is that we can and should put this person in the HOS, but it is more than sufficient to prove that case with the facts at hand, and that some of the more direct personal invectives (while potentially warranted) don't really add to the case but MAY serve to add to a downward mental spiral for Chip. So maybe we can ease up on those, just in case there are actual mental issues in play. I know he hasn't earned it, and certainly no one owes it to him, but while I would want help warn and protect a community, I know I wouldn't want to potentially help push someone deeper into a dark place. And I think we can accomplish the protection goal without the extra 'pushing down'.

 

I get that not everyone sees it that way, but I hope it can be understood why some people might see it that way.

 

And before it can be asked, I'm aware of the charity thread and the other very serious alleged mental health scare as well as the other questionable business dealings.

 

As I said, I'm not a professional, but I see a person who needs (professional) help, who will no longer benefit from being on the boards here.

[Logan510]

I think all of us would want to take actions to protect the community and prevent people from lying and/or stealing as it relates to the sales of comics, or at minimum to compel people to complete transactions they agreed upon. And I don't think anyone on any side of the argument would disagree with that.

 

From my reading (admittedly halfheartedly read on my cracked iphone screen whilst watching househunters), it seems like some parties believe that some level of mental health issues may be a factor in the behavior, while other parties either dismiss the relevance (the facts are the facts either way) or don't believe it to be true.

 

For myself, I completely believe mental/psychological issues are a factor here, although I've never met the person or had a transaction with him, nor am I a trained psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist (or anything really [although in past life I was an Engineer-in-training]). Which isn't also to say that possibly or probably fraud, theft, manipulation, or lying hasn't occurred, as those can happen whether mental health is impaired or not.

 

What I think is that we can and should put this person in the HOS, but it is more than sufficient to prove that case with the facts at hand, and that some of the more direct personal invectives (while potentially warranted) don't really add to the case but MAY serve to add to a downward mental spiral for Chip. So maybe we can ease up on those, just in case there are actual mental issues in play. I know he hasn't earned it, and certainly no one owes it to him, but while I would want help warn and protect a community, I know I wouldn't want to potentially help push someone deeper into a dark place. And I think we can accomplish the protection goal without the extra 'pushing down'.

 

I get that not everyone sees it that way, but I hope it can be understood why some people might see it that way.

 

And before it can be asked, I'm aware of the charity thread and the other very serious alleged mental health scare as well as the other questionable business dealings.

 

As I said, I'm not a professional, but I see a person who needs (professional) help, who will no longer benefit from being on the boards here.

 

Who is doing this "pushing"? It's a very loud minority that keeps bringing it up and won't let it go.

 

Why? I have absolutely no idea.

[jimjum12]

I think all of us would want to take actions to protect the community and prevent people from lying and/or stealing as it relates to the sales of comics, or at minimum to compel people to complete transactions they agreed upon. And I don't think anyone on any side of the argument would disagree with that.

 

From my reading (admittedly halfheartedly read on my cracked iphone screen whilst watching househunters), it seems like some parties believe that some level of mental health issues may be a factor in the behavior, while other parties either dismiss the relevance (the facts are the facts either way) or don't believe it to be true.

 

For myself, I completely believe mental/psychological issues are a factor here, although I've never met the person or had a transaction with him, nor am I a trained psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist (or anything really [although in past life I was an Engineer-in-training]). Which isn't also to say that possibly or probably fraud, theft, manipulation, or lying hasn't occurred, as those can happen whether mental health is impaired or not.

 

What I think is that we can and should put this person in the HOS, but it is more than sufficient to prove that case with the facts at hand, and that some of the more direct personal invectives (while potentially warranted) don't really add to the case but MAY serve to add to a downward mental spiral for Chip. So maybe we can ease up on those, just in case there are actual mental issues in play. I know he hasn't earned it, and certainly no one owes it to him, but while I would want help warn and protect a community, I know I wouldn't want to potentially help push someone deeper into a dark place. And I think we can accomplish the protection goal without the extra 'pushing down'.

 

I get that not everyone sees it that way, but I hope it can be understood why some people might see it that way.

 

And before it can be asked, I'm aware of the charity thread and the other very serious alleged mental health scare as well as the other questionable business dealings.

 

As I said, I'm not a professional, but I see a person who needs (professional) help, who will no longer benefit from being on the boards here.

 

Who is doing this "pushing"? It's a very loud minority that keeps bringing it up and won't let it go.

 

Why? I have absolutely no idea.

 

HOS doesn't keep someone from participating on the Boards...... it just makes it difficult for them to conduct transactions with most members. Should he need someone to talk to, many of us would still be here. With mentally ill folks, unfortunately an intervention is sometimes required. That is what this is..... and while this is sad, it is not OK for them to victimize others and hide behind a sympathy blanket...... I've watched the EMS techs haul my Mother off in a straight jacket..... and sometimes there is no other option. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(A friend of jesus)

[topofthetotem]

I think all of us would want to take actions to protect the community and prevent people from lying and/or stealing as it relates to the sales of comics, or at minimum to compel people to complete transactions they agreed upon. And I don't think anyone on any side of the argument would disagree with that.

 

From my reading (admittedly halfheartedly read on my cracked iphone screen whilst watching househunters), it seems like some parties believe that some level of mental health issues may be a factor in the behavior, while other parties either dismiss the relevance (the facts are the facts either way) or don't believe it to be true.

 

For myself, I completely believe mental/psychological issues are a factor here, although I've never met the person or had a transaction with him, nor am I a trained psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist (or anything really [although in past life I was an Engineer-in-training]). Which isn't also to say that possibly or probably fraud, theft, manipulation, or lying hasn't occurred, as those can happen whether mental health is impaired or not.

 

What I think is that we can and should put this person in the HOS, but it is more than sufficient to prove that case with the facts at hand, and that some of the more direct personal invectives (while potentially warranted) don't really add to the case but MAY serve to add to a downward mental spiral for Chip. So maybe we can ease up on those, just in case there are actual mental issues in play. I know he hasn't earned it, and certainly no one owes it to him, but while I would want help warn and protect a community, I know I wouldn't want to potentially help push someone deeper into a dark place. And I think we can accomplish the protection goal without the extra 'pushing down'.

 

I get that not everyone sees it that way, but I hope it can be understood why some people might see it that way.

 

And before it can be asked, I'm aware of the charity thread and the other very serious alleged mental health scare as well as the other questionable business dealings.

 

As I said, I'm not a professional, but I see a person who needs (professional) help, who will no longer benefit from being on the boards here.

 

Who is doing this "pushing"? It's a very loud minority that keeps bringing it up and won't let it go.

 

Why? I have absolutely no idea.

 

HOS doesn't keep someone from participating on the Boards...... it just makes it difficult for them to conduct transactions with most members. Should he need someone to talk to, many of us would still be here. With mentally ill folks, unfortunately an intervention is sometimes required. That is what this is..... and while this is sad, it is not OK for them to victimize others and hide behind a sympathy blanket...... I've watched the EMS techs haul my Mother off in a straight jacket..... and sometimes there is no other option. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(A friend of jesus)

Very sorry to hear that Jimbo.

 

[ashsaytr]

this is what this whole Chip story reminds me of...

 

[jaybuck43]

this is what this whole Chip story reminds me of...

 

 

The saddest part of those stories is that because of that person_without_empathy someone who actually is homeless and actually needs help won't get it because people will think that they are scamming. I pass by a guy by my office everyday who is quite similar (set up with his dog to scam tourists, but only from 10-6, goes home after that)

[Awax]

Can someone PM me when the vote on Roy begins?

 

You are before him.

[CAHokie]

That would be an easy vote.

[porcupine48]

I hope to one day become a respected board member.

 

yes,me too.

 

[porcupine48]

I'm harassing you and trying to intimidate you?!

[JAM_NYC]

I hope to one day become a respected board member.

 

yes,me too.

First we get the Mace Windu action figure with moose knuckles. Then we get the khakis. Then we get the chicks.

[porcupine48]

I hope to one day become a respected board member.

 

yes,me too.

First we get the Mace Windu action figure with moose knuckles. Then we get the khakis. Then we get the chicks.

Then can we take Manhattan and Berlin?

 

[JAM_NYC]

I hope to one day become a respected board member.

 

yes,me too.

First we get the Mace Windu action figure with moose knuckles. Then we get the khakis. Then we get the chicks.

Then can we take Manhattan and Berlin?

If it be your will.

[Buzzetta]

this is what this whole Chip story reminds me of...

 

 

The saddest part of those stories is that because of that person_without_empathy someone who actually is homeless and actually needs help won't get it because people will think that they are scamming. I pass by a guy by my office everyday who is quite similar (set up with his dog to scam tourists, but only from 10-6, goes home after that)

 

He is putting in his eight hours a day... There is something to be said for that.