PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[sacentaur]

I always find it amusing when people bring up the anonymous "well respected" boardies.

 

Roy is grasping at straws because he showed exceedingly poor judgment in recently aligning himself with Chip, and all the collateral problems that occurred as a result (e.g., an expensive book I bought from Roy wasn't mailed by Chip because he claimed that he 'didn't have the money to pay postage', so Roy had to send him the funds - then Chip proceeded to mail the book to someone else in a different city and it was temporarily lost), so maybe he feels that he's being judged guilty by association?

 

 

Wouldn't mind hearing more about this particular story

 

Roy could detail better than me of course, but in a nutshell he related that he tried to help Chip out and it back-fired on him (surprise, surprise).

 

By trusting his business (a US shipper) to Chip, Roy set himself up for failure. As I said, exceedingly poor judgment on his part.

 

I did eventually get the book (after much unwanted drama).

[thehumantorch]

.

 

Chip is getting nominated into the HIOS for not shipping or communicating in a timely manner. NOBODY is arguing that Chip shouldn't have his knuckles rapped for bad behavior.

 

All me, red84 (and a few other boardies who have PMd me who probably don't want to wade into this discussion) are asking is that mental health not be swept under the rug and be treated respectfully.

 

I'm OK with that. I've been sticking up for the unpopular position my whole life. I can take it. My manhood isn't vested in who I agree with.

 

 

Roy, I can really appreciate how difficult it is to stand up for the guy getting beat up, it isn't easy and shows a great deal of empathy and compassion on your part.

 

I do want to point out that you mentioned that you hadn't read the links or all of the links provided in the original HOS nomination. Is it possible your defense of Chip is based on your need to defend the little guy, and an automatic response when you see a crowd gathering in anger? The portion of your post I highlighted above is a strong example of your forgiving viewpoint and your efforts to protect the weak. This isn't knuckle rap, it's a public shaming and our strongest measure to expel someone from the tribe, and it isn't bad behavior, it's long term systemic theft and lies.

 

Regardless, this is a vote. It's important to have a conversation, weight the issues, respect all sides, vote, and then hang the perp.

[VintageComics]

I always find it amusing when people bring up the anonymous "well respected" boardies.

 

That's an veiled way of saying I'm lying. Why would I do that?

 

I'm not. Red84 was one of them. There are several others. One that I believe is waiting to receive something from Chip if I understood correctly.

 

I'm not bringing it up to show that there are numbers on my side or to validate me. I'm bringing it up to show that not everyone agrees with the majority.

 

And I don't blame people for not wanting to jump into the fray. It's no fun being painted a certain way by the mob only to have it thrown into your face at a future discussion.

 

Some people just don't want the trouble of having to argue with a group on the internet.

 

 

[Paddy_McShillihan]

What is a respected boardie? Who decides that?

Is the definition:

Someone who sells HG expensive books?

Someone who attends board functions?

Someone who plays a pickup game of Basket ball?

Someone with lots of post?

Someone with a custom title?

Someone who sets up at a con?

 

What's the criteria? How do I reach for the stars? How do you get to be a respected boardie and become a member of such a vaunted and prestigious club where your opinion carries so much weight more then that of the unwashed masses (that I'm currently a member of) where the community at large should ignore simple empirical data relating to failed transactions.

 

Sigh...I thought never having a strike, participating in a positive manner with the folks of the boards, being apart of the board fundraising activities from dearly departed Nik to Speedforce (in my own small way) and completing deals and honouring my commitments would have made me respected, boy am I a rube.

 

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Peace

 

[VintageComics]

There were no straw men.

 

I simply replied to your post as best as I could.

 

No problem if you don't understand Roy, we'll just add it to the growing list.

 

Oh, there's a list is there?

 

What is this? McCarthyism all over again?

 

 

 

 

[MetalPSI]

 

If I spin around and say RMA three times, will a moderator appear in my mirror?

[wombat]

I don't think anyone should be trying to dictate how others voice their feelings on the matter. To say the only thing anyone should bring up are the basic facts is only one way to do this. It holds no more weight than anyone else's way of discussing the topic.

[CAHokie]

 

If I spin around and say RMA three times, will a moderator appear in my mirror?

 

There is most likely already one there!

[topofthetotem]

Oh oh MaCarthyism has been cited can Nazisum be far behind?

[ashsaytr]

.

 

This isn't knuckle rap, it's a public shaming and our strongest measure to expel someone from the tribe, and it isn't bad behavior, it's long term systemic theft and lies.

 

Regardless, this is a vote. It's important to have a conversation, weight the issues, respect all sides, vote, and then hang the perp.

 

[Logan510]

I always find it amusing when people bring up the anonymous "well respected" boardies.

 

That's an veiled way of saying I'm lying. Why would I do that?

 

I'm not. Red84 was one of them. There are several others. One that I believe is waiting to receive something from Chip if I understood correctly.

 

I'm not bringing it up to show that there are numbers on my side or to validate me. I'm bringing it up to show that not everyone agrees with the majority.

 

And I don't blame people for not wanting to jump into the fray. It's no fun being painted a certain way by the mob only to have it thrown into your face at a future discussion.

 

Some people just don't want the trouble of having to argue with a group on the internet.

 

 

I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying it's lame. I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but I will take you for what you say and not the opinions of mostly anonymous "well respected" boardies.

 

As topofthetotem said:

"What is a respected boardie? Who decides that?

Is the definition:

Someone who sells HG expensive books?

Someone who attends board functions?

Someone who plays a pickup game of Basket ball?

Someone with lots of post?

Someone with a custom title?

Someone who sets up at a con?"

[Logan510]

 

If I spin around and say RMA three times, will a moderator appear in my mirror?

 

There is most likely already one there!

 

 

[VintageComics]

I always find it amusing when people bring up the anonymous "well respected" boardies.

 

Roy is grasping at straws because he showed exceedingly poor judgment in recently aligning himself with Chip, and all the collateral problems that occurred as a result (e.g., an expensive book I bought from Roy wasn't mailed by Chip because he claimed that he 'didn't have the money to pay postage', so Roy had to send him the funds - then Chip proceeded to mail the book to someone else in a different city and it was temporarily lost), so maybe he feels that he's being judged guilty by association?

 

 

Why does everything always turn personal when someone disagrees? Why are my straws being interjected in a situation about Chip?

 

What straws am I grasping it?

 

I offered to help him this past summer because I wanted to help and also offered to back up any problems that may arise from dealing with Chip. Out of the literally 100's (and possibly 1000's) of books Chip sold for me, statistically, a few screw ups are not out of the realm of reasonable in a high volume business.

 

Your use of the word 'exceedingly' is subjective and just another attempt at trying to make your post look more right than mine. And it's weak, really.

 

I have repeatedly said Chip needs to be dealt with according to the rules of the chat forum and am not objecting to his being put into HOS or PL.

 

I do happen to believe he's suffering from some form of Mental Illness based on what I know about mental illness and my personal experiences with Chip that have happened over several years.

 

Please tell me what straws I am grasping it so that I can self better myself and improve as a human.

[VintageComics]

It's lame if I'm using it to bolster my argument.

 

It's not lame if it's meaning to show a little perspective that not everyone agrees.

 

As topofthetotem said:

"What is a respected boardie? Who decides that?

Is the definition:

Someone who sells HG expensive books?

Someone who attends board functions?

Someone who plays a pickup game of Basket ball?

Someone with lots of post?

Someone with a custom title?

Someone who sets up at a con?"

 

Yeah, I'm going to consider someone respected because they have a big wallet or play basketball with me.

 

I consider a respected boardie someone who spends quality time on the chat forum by adding value over a longish term, someone that I trust to do business with, someone that seems fairly reasonable in their replies, etc, etc.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I always find it amusing when people bring up the anonymous "well respected" boardies.

 

Roy is grasping at straws because he showed exceedingly poor judgment in recently aligning himself with Chip, and all the collateral problems that occurred as a result (e.g., an expensive book I bought from Roy wasn't mailed by Chip because he claimed that he 'didn't have the money to pay postage', so Roy had to send him the funds - then Chip proceeded to mail the book to someone else in a different city and it was temporarily lost), so maybe he feels that he's being judged guilty by association?

 

 

Uncalled for.

 

I agree but didn't want to be the 1st to say it.

 

 

[Logan510]

It's lame if I'm using it to bolster my argument.

 

It's not lame if it's meaning to show a little perspective that not everyone agrees.

 

As topofthetotem said:

"What is a respected boardie? Who decides that?

Is the definition:

Someone who sells HG expensive books?

Someone who attends board functions?

Someone who plays a pickup game of Basket ball?

Someone with lots of post?

Someone with a custom title?

Someone who sets up at a con?"

 

Yeah, I'm going to consider someone respected because they have a big wallet or play basketball with me.

 

I consider a respected boardie someone who spends quality time on the chat forum by adding value over a longish term, someone that I trust to do business with, someone that seems fairly reasonable in their replies, etc, etc.

 

 

A lot of well respected boardies have told me privately that they don't agree with you on this as well.

 

 

See how that works?

[sacentaur]

It's not lame if it's meaning to show a little perspective that not everyone agrees.

 

Roy, have you considered that others have received PM's about you?

 

And they don't want to post because they don't want to get into an internet argument with a few misguided individuals?

 

What does it prove?

 

Nothing.

 

That's the point Casey made.

 

I know, I know - you don't understand (again). Or if you do, you don't care (again).

[VintageComics]

I always find it amusing when people bring up the anonymous "well respected" boardies.

 

Roy is grasping at straws because he showed exceedingly poor judgment in recently aligning himself with Chip, and all the collateral problems that occurred as a result (e.g., an expensive book I bought from Roy wasn't mailed by Chip because he claimed that he 'didn't have the money to pay postage', so Roy had to send him the funds - then Chip proceeded to mail the book to someone else in a different city and it was temporarily lost), so maybe he feels that he's being judged guilty by association?

 

 

Wouldn't mind hearing more about this particular story

 

Why, because it makes good grist for the rumor mill?

 

Or are you concerned about Chip's well being.

 

Chip ran some auctions for me this past summer to sell my personal books.

 

One of my Whiz books was sold and then we accepted a return because the buyer did not agree with the grade. It was cool because I promised to cover anybody's issues. I disagreed with the buyer, but whatever.

 

So I put the book up for sale here on the chat forum. and Steve (sacentaur) bought it.

 

When I asked Chip to ship it he said he would. I stressed that it was important to get it shipped in a timely fashion as Steve likes his books quick. I emailed Chip Steve's shipping address.

 

A week (or something along those lines - I can't remember the exact time frame) goes by and Steve hasn't received his book.

 

I reached out to Chip, who told me (I think, again memory disagrees) that eBay came through to get their fees or something along those lines and emptied his account and couldn't afford to ship the book.

 

So I sent a small amount of money to cover the shipment.

 

I was a little ticked at Chip over the lack of communication but considering he's shipped 100's of books for me with no issues he was allowed a little grace IMO and I ate crow from Steve for the screw up. This was also in the midst of all of this going down with his finances, eviction, etc.

 

When it came time to finally ship the book Chip did a quick gmail search to find the shipping address (I assume he just gmail searched the Whiz title and issue number the way I would) and he mistakenly pulled the email from the return buyer and mistakenly shipped the book to the same person again.

 

I lost my mess a little at Chip but anyhow, we managed to get the USPS to intercept the package and reroute it.

 

 

[Red84]

It's lame if I'm using it to bolster my argument.

 

It's not lame if it's meaning to show a little perspective that not everyone agrees.

 

As topofthetotem said:

"What is a respected boardie? Who decides that?

Is the definition:

Someone who sells HG expensive books?

Someone who attends board functions?

Someone who plays a pickup game of Basket ball?

Someone with lots of post?

Someone with a custom title?

Someone who sets up at a con?"

 

Yeah, I'm going to consider someone respected because they have a big wallet or play basketball with me.

 

I consider a respected boardie someone who spends quality time on the chat forum by adding value over a longish term, someone that I trust to do business with, someone that seems fairly reasonable in their replies, etc, etc.

 

 

A lot of well respected boardies have told me privately that they don't agree with you on this as well.

 

 

See how that works?

 

What exactly don't you agree with? Roy are I are saying that Chip is worthy of PL or HOS. We're merely saying that the process should be treated a little more delicately than usual. Why is that so awful?

[VintageComics]

Roy could detail better than me of course, but in a nutshell he related that he tried to help Chip out and it back-fired on him (surprise, surprise).

 

By trusting his business (a US shipper) to Chip, Roy set himself up for failure. As I said, exceedingly poor judgment on his part.

 

Those little 'surprise, surprise' quips really are pointless.

 

I had a near flawless experiences with Chip up until that point so I had no reason to assume the next run would be any different.

 

The word 'exceedingly' is a little over the top considering most other shipments arrived in a timely manner.

 

I did eventually get the book (after much unwanted drama).

 

Steve, the only real drama was you getting ticked off because the book took so long to get there.

 

You did eventually get the book, I offered a partial refund for the trouble IIRC and I was extremely apologetic and kept you informed every step of the way.

 

Let's not make it sound like we were putting out fires all over the continent.