PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's interesting to read the thread without being involved. People really can't see themselves.

 

Those who criticize community, do nothing to foster it but feel obligated to repeatedly point out ways in which it is not. Do something instead of making snarky comments.

 

But, don't you see...? You're doing the same thing that you're complaining about others doing: not seeing what there is to see.

 

First, you say the people who criticize community do nothing to foster it...why would they? Why should they? If these people don't feel this is a community, nor can or should be one, why would they be interested in doing anything to foster that which they think should not, or cannot, be?

 

Second, according to whose criteria are they "doing nothing to foster community"? Yours? Mine? Arch's?

 

Third, are those people bringing up their apparent disdain for "community" in a vacuum? Or, are they responding to people who have made the positive claim, and the respondents feel it necessary to "correct the record"? Or does it matter? Who is right? Who is wrong?

 

Fourth, according to whose criteria are comments "snarky" ..? Of course, there are obviously snarky comments, which are meant to be, and are obvious to all.

 

But what if someone is making an earnest point, but someone else doesn't agree with it, and looks at it as snarky?

 

You've made sincere comments that have been called snarky by others. So have I. So has most everyone.

 

Upon whom is it incumbent to make sure people understand not just the words, but the motives behind them? The writer? The reader? A little of column A, a little of column B?

 

 

That's the beauty of broad perspective: what is "fostering community" to some can be (and is) completely missed by others. I think posting endless hard rock videos is an annoying waste of my time (just as an example), and certainly does nothing...*for me*...to foster community. For me, it's quite the opposite.

 

But there are other members who think that's the greatest part of this board, and absolutely "fosters the community"...for them.

 

Am I wrong? Are they right?

 

No, I'm not wrong. And neither are they. They get what makes them happy, and I simply avoid those posts. It's a combination of patience on my part, and restraint on others' part to not turn every thread into an endless MTV ad.

 

Self-awareness is a very, very rare commodity. And projecting one's own methods and motives on others is very, very easy and extremely common. When you say "people can't see themselves", how do you know? Is it so simple, and obvious, to know what is going on in someone's head? Are motives so clear, all the time? Maybe they CAN see themselves, but the way they see themselves is not the way YOU see them?

 

In that respect, wouldn't it be more correct to say "People can't see themselves the way I think they should see themselves"...?

 

 

People see what they want to see. It takes a deliberate act of will to see through one's biases and perspective, an act of will that not many are even capable of performing, much less willing.

 

The same group of members post in sequence, which is literally quantifiable by simply reviewing the prior posts, but don't see the behavior as trolling, rather it is validating general sentiment.

Understandably members have friends they want to defend or side with or attach themselves to, which is perfectly reasonable, it's the inability to acknowledge that fact that's mind boggling. Furthermore they are quick to point out the trolling of others which is off the hypocrisy charts.

 

Also, Adonis has repeatedly failed to ship in a timely manner which is insensitive and irresponsible. He has acknowledged this fact. He has said he will try harder, he has also said this in the past. We get it, we are aware. If someone wants him on the PL nominate him. If someone wants him on the HOS nominate him. If not, it simply seems like grudges and butthurt.

 

But why is it *your* perspective on the matter which is the correct one? Is it really "butthurt and grudges" that are driving the commentary ?(For the record, I've said nothing about it here.)

 

Or, is the commentary driven instead by a measured and objective analysis of the situation?

 

Again, who's to say? You? Me? Arch? Branget?

 

Like my girl Elsa says "Let it go".

 

There is much wisdom in those words.

 

However, there is also wisdom in not letting go that which should be addressed and dealt with.

 

And who determines which is which?

 

It always comes down to perspective and attitude.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The above post is said without snark of any kind, and is a sincere response to the issues raised.

[N/A]

He will never see. Head is in the clouds.

 

Obviously he did not read my link concerning Adonis. Now we know when he wants some cash he just needs to send you a PM since you will just let it go.

[mikenyc]

He will never see. Head is in the clouds.

 

Obviously he did not read my link concerning Adonis. Now we know when he wants some cash he just needs to send you a PM since you will just let it go.

 

You continue to lead the charge to what end?

 

Adonis is in the wrong. He admitted he was wrong. Many other members have come and posted that he has been in the wrong with them. It is universally believed, at least by everyone actively participating in the thread, that he is wrong. He has repeatedly used the same excuses for his bad behavior, which he again acknowledges and is further supported by numerous posted links. Myself and many others will not deal with him in the future. I think what he does and has done in the past is wrong. Now what?

 

Instead of circling with jabs why not go in for the uppercut and nominate him for the HOS. If enough people agree with you then he will be placed on the list and then you can let it go. If not enough people agree with you, he will not be placed on the list and then you can let it go.

 

If not, put a daisy in your smoking gun and move on.

[mikenyc]

The above post is said without snark of any kind, and is a sincere response to the issues raised.

 

 

I understand that everyone lives in their own reality. I understand that everyone thinks that they are correct in their beliefs or opinions. I understand that everything other than mathematical based fact is subjective.

 

I don't pretend that I'm above it. I openly acknowledge that I express my viewpoints as fact and honestly believe that I am right 99% of the time. I'm not a hypocrite.

 

Maybe I can't get over people who sit on their computer to mess on everything. Maybe I'm silly to believe that when Mike's house burned down, or Nik's son was born premature or Beau and Lebowski lost their lives and the boards rallied around them and their families that it's sincere.

 

Maybe I'm sick of hearing from the same members who are always missing in those threads, or the grading contests or the holiday exchanges or anything that supports the "community" aspect of the boards. Maybe they should find something more productive to do with their time in their actual community. Help an old lady across a street, hang missing cat signs or start a fisting club.

 

I'll head you off at the pass before you talk about giving behind the scenes, not needing to participate to be part of the community, etc, etc.

 

This is not a battle I can win since it's based on opinions so I won't try and go back and forth. Maybe I just wanted my opinion to be heard as well.

 

Lastly, the pack posting isn't my opinion it's a fact. Simply spend 10 minutes reading back in the thread and the same 4 or 5 members stack up the quotes against whatever person disagrees. I could truly care less as I have spent a fair amount of time duking it out with them but to call another member a troll for one post is pathetic. You know exactly who I'm talking about.

 

 

 

 

[N/A]

He will never see. Head is in the clouds.

 

Obviously he did not read my link concerning Adonis. Now we know when he wants some cash he just needs to send you a PM since you will just let it go.

 

You continue to lead the charge to what end?

 

Adonis is in the wrong. He admitted he was wrong. Many other members have come and posted that he has been in the wrong with them. It is universally believed, at least by everyone actively participating in the thread, that he is wrong. He has repeatedly used the same excuses for his bad behavior, which he again acknowledges and is further supported by numerous posted links. Myself and many others will not deal with him in the future. I think what he does and has done in the past is wrong. Now what?

 

Instead of circling with jabs why not go in for the uppercut and nominate him for the HOS. If enough people agree with you then he will be placed on the list and then you can let it go. If not enough people agree with you, he will not be placed on the list and then you can let it go.

 

If not, put a daisy in your smoking gun and move on.

 

So you really don't see how you didn't follow your own advice? The issue was done. I told him he would be in the HOS on the next infraction. I am quite confident the votes are already there to put him in the HOS.

 

So, instead of letting it go, you bring it back up just to say it should be let go.

 

Ok then. Your post is full of this but this one in particular made me laugh. The discussion was done but you felt obligated to post your two cents telling people to not post their two cents. Thanks Dad.

[lizards2]

Is it really "butthurt and grudges" that are driving the commentary ?

 

This caught my eye. Could it be that butthurt and grudges actually drive the community?

[N/A]

The above post is said without snark of any kind, and is a sincere response to the issues raised.

 

 

I understand that everyone lives in their own reality. I understand that everyone thinks that they are correct in their beliefs or opinions. I understand that everything other than mathematical based fact is subjective.

 

I don't pretend that I'm above it. I openly acknowledge that I express my viewpoints as fact and honestly believe that I am right 99% of the time. I'm not a hypocrite.

 

Maybe I can't get over people who sit on their computer to mess on everything. Maybe I'm silly to believe that when Mike's house burned down, or Nik's son was born premature or Beau and Lebowski lost their lives and the boards rallied around them and their families that it's sincere.

 

Maybe I'm sick of hearing from the same members who are always missing in those threads, or the grading contests or the holiday exchanges or anything that supports the "community" aspect of the boards. Maybe they should find something more productive to do with their time in their actual community. Help an old lady across a street, hang missing cat signs or start a fisting club.

 

I'll head you off at the pass before you talk about giving behind the scenes, not needing to participate to be part of the community, etc, etc.

 

This is not a battle I can win since it's based on opinions so I won't try and go back and forth. Maybe I just wanted my opinion to be heard as well.

 

Lastly, the pack posting isn't my opinion it's a fact. Simply spend 10 minutes reading back in the thread and the same 4 or 5 members stack up the quotes against whatever person disagrees. I could truly care less as I have spent a fair amount of time duking it out with them but to call another member a troll for one post is pathetic. You know exactly who I'm talking about.

 

 

 

 

I don't know who you're talking about but I do know you contradict yourself a couple times here. Maybe it's time for a break.

[N/A]

Is it really "butthurt and grudges" that are driving the commentary ?

 

This caught my eye. Could it be that butthurt and grudges actually drive the community?

 

To some extent I would say yes. The "friends from a common enemy" mentality thrives here.

[HarveySwick]

The above post is said without snark of any kind, and is a sincere response to the issues raised.

 

I understand that everyone lives in their own reality. I understand that everyone thinks that they are correct in their beliefs or opinions. I understand that everything other than mathematical based fact is subjective.

 

I don't pretend that I'm above it. I openly acknowledge that I express my viewpoints as fact and honestly believe that I am right 99% of the time. I'm not a hypocrite.

 

Maybe I can't get over people who sit on their computer to mess on everything. Maybe I'm silly to believe that when Mike's house burned down, or Nik's son was born premature or Beau and Lebowski lost their lives and the boards rallied around them and their families that it's sincere.

 

Maybe I'm sick of hearing from the same members who are always missing in those threads, or the grading contests or the holiday exchanges or anything that supports the "community" aspect of the boards. Maybe they should find something more productive to do with their time in their actual community. Help an old lady across a street, hang missing cat signs or start a fisting club.

 

I'll head you off at the pass before you talk about giving behind the scenes, not needing to participate to be part of the community, etc, etc.

 

This is not a battle I can win since it's based on opinions so I won't try and go back and forth. Maybe I just wanted my opinion to be heard as well.

 

Lastly, the pack posting isn't my opinion it's a fact. Simply spend 10 minutes reading back in the thread and the same 4 or 5 members stack up the quotes against whatever person disagrees. I could truly care less as I have spent a fair amount of time duking it out with them but to call another member a troll for one post is pathetic. You know exactly who I'm talking about.

 

[accessndx]

Baby Jeesus this is one convoluted read.

[N/A]

The above post is said without snark of any kind, and is a sincere response to the issues raised.

 

I understand that everyone lives in their own reality. I understand that everyone thinks that they are correct in their beliefs or opinions. I understand that everything other than mathematical based fact is subjective.

 

I don't pretend that I'm above it. I openly acknowledge that I express my viewpoints as fact and honestly believe that I am right 99% of the time. I'm not a hypocrite.

 

Maybe I can't get over people who sit on their computer to mess on everything. Maybe I'm silly to believe that when Mike's house burned down, or Nik's son was born premature or Beau and Lebowski lost their lives and the boards rallied around them and their families that it's sincere.

 

Maybe I'm sick of hearing from the same members who are always missing in those threads, or the grading contests or the holiday exchanges or anything that supports the "community" aspect of the boards. Maybe they should find something more productive to do with their time in their actual community. Help an old lady across a street, hang missing cat signs or start a fisting club.

 

I'll head you off at the pass before you talk about giving behind the scenes, not needing to participate to be part of the community, etc, etc.

 

This is not a battle I can win since it's based on opinions so I won't try and go back and forth. Maybe I just wanted my opinion to be heard as well.

 

Lastly, the pack posting isn't my opinion it's a fact. Simply spend 10 minutes reading back in the thread and the same 4 or 5 members stack up the quotes against whatever person disagrees. I could truly care less as I have spent a fair amount of time duking it out with them but to call another member a troll for one post is pathetic. You know exactly who I'm talking about.

 

 

You always make me curious.

[N/A]

Baby Jeesus this is one convoluted read.

 

Post count.

[lizards2]

Bullying? Works hard to make things right? Maybe you should read my link.

Remember...

 

Saying things that are critical of other people is "bullying." Saying true things that people don't like is "bullying." Challenging someone's poor behavior is "bullying."

 

Thus watering down the meaning of the word "bullying", and making a mockery of people who are *actually* being bullied.

 

There aren't enough facepalms in the world to give to people who abuse the word "bullying."

 

Thanks for this, RMA. I sent it to my work for future use. I have to deal with performance and conduct issues there. People frequently think their coworkers or bosses are "bullying" them, when in actuality, they are just trying to get them to do their jobs. The jobs they are paid to perform.

[Columbia Comics]

The above post is said without snark of any kind, and is a sincere response to the issues raised.

 

I understand that everyone lives in their own reality. I understand that everyone thinks that they are correct in their beliefs or opinions. I understand that everything other than mathematical based fact is subjective.

 

I don't pretend that I'm above it. I openly acknowledge that I express my viewpoints as fact and honestly believe that I am right 99% of the time. I'm not a hypocrite.

 

Maybe I can't get over people who sit on their computer to mess on everything. Maybe I'm silly to believe that when Mike's house burned down, or Nik's son was born premature or Beau and Lebowski lost their lives and the boards rallied around them and their families that it's sincere.

 

Maybe I'm sick of hearing from the same members who are always missing in those threads, or the grading contests or the holiday exchanges or anything that supports the "community" aspect of the boards. Maybe they should find something more productive to do with their time in their actual community. Help an old lady across a street, hang missing cat signs or start a fisting club.

 

I'll head you off at the pass before you talk about giving behind the scenes, not needing to participate to be part of the community, etc, etc.

 

This is not a battle I can win since it's based on opinions so I won't try and go back and forth. Maybe I just wanted my opinion to be heard as well.

 

Lastly, the pack posting isn't my opinion it's a fact. Simply spend 10 minutes reading back in the thread and the same 4 or 5 members stack up the quotes against whatever person disagrees. I could truly care less as I have spent a fair amount of time duking it out with them but to call another member a troll for one post is pathetic. You know exactly who I'm talking about.

 

 

You always make me curious.

 

[N/A]

Throw me a

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

This thread is always interesting.

 

If no new fuel comes forward, it feeds off its own fat.

[Hado]

or start a fisting club.

 

How did no one notice this?

[accessndx]

or start a fisting club.

 

How did no one notice this?

 

First rule of fisting club: nobody talks about fisting club.

 

[lizards2]

or start a fisting club.

 

How did no one notice this?

Only Canadians are impressed with NYC'ers? :shrug: