PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[MrBedrock]

My on this.

 

Trey sold a PGX book without revealing it.

 

Joey bought the book and received it in the slab.

 

Joey decided to remove the book from the slab to "enjoy at some future time".

 

After the subsequent issues regarding feedback etc already outlined, nominations for the PL begin. Trey nominates Joey and Joey nominates Trey.

 

Had Joey NOT taken the book out of the slab, had he returned it for a refund on the basis it was a PGX book THAT would be a valid case. But he accepted the book and unslabbed it for his own use.

 

Both sides here have some culpability.

 

This may be best served by Arch making a decision for strike(s) if he deems so.

(thumbs u

If being stupid enough to buy a book from Trey is enough fodder to add me to the PL feel free to do so.

I personally don't think either of you should be probated. You both knew it was a PGX book.

Joey didn't know it was a PGX book until he opened the package. Trey knew it from the moment it was posted for sale.

My opinion...and I'm sure I will get flack for it...

Trey offered a book with a grade. It happened to be in a PGX holder but that was not necessarily apparent from the scans nor from his listing or description. Others determined it was PGX before the sale because the scan showed the inner well. I understand that selling PGX books is against the rules here on the boards. I have always held the opinion that a comic is a comic. The label is not the comic. In my mind, as long as the grading companies opinion is not used to sell the book then no harm. But according to rules Trey should have cracked it before listing it here. So be it, and I understand it. But I digress... Joey may or may not have seen the discussion of whether or not it was a PGX book but he bought it. He received it. He knew it was in a PGX holder when he received it. If he had an issue with the transaction then here is where he should have said something. But he did not make an issue of it. So at this point in the transaction there has been no issue with the fact that the book was sold in a PGX holder. That is very important as far as I'm concerned. Say it out loud...at this point in the transaction there is no issue with the PGX slab.

 

So joey cracks it out of the PGX holder. It is now NOT A PGX BOOK. So the problems start after it is no longer in a PGX holder. The issues with Trey selling this comic book begin when the book is no longer a PGX book. The problem is not about grade. The problem is not about payment. The problem is not about service. And most importantly, the problem is not about PGX. The whole problem is a misunderstanding about feedback.

Silliest mess I ever saw. At least that's how I see it.

[N/A]

My on this.

 

Trey sold a PGX book without revealing it.

 

Joey bought the book and received it in the slab.

 

Joey decided to remove the book from the slab to "enjoy at some future time".

 

After the subsequent issues regarding feedback etc already outlined, nominations for the PL begin. Trey nominates Joey and Joey nominates Trey.

 

Had Joey NOT taken the book out of the slab, had he returned it for a refund on the basis it was a PGX book THAT would be a valid case. But he accepted the book and unslabbed it for his own use.

 

Both sides here have some culpability.

 

This may be best served by Arch making a decision for strike(s) if he deems so.

(thumbs u

If being stupid enough to buy a book from Trey is enough fodder to add me to the PL feel free to do so.

I personally don't think either of you should be probated. You both knew it was a PGX book.

Joey didn't know it was a PGX book until he opened the package. Trey knew it from the moment it was posted for sale.

My opinion...and I'm sure I will get flack for it...

Trey offered a book with a grade. It happened to be in a PGX holder but that was not necessarily apparent from the scans nor from his listing or description. Others determined it was PGX before the sale because the scan showed the inner well. I understand that selling PGX books is against the rules here on the boards. I have always held the opinion that a comic is a comic. The label is not the comic. In my mind, as long as the grading companies opinion is not used to sell the book then no harm. But according to rules Trey should have cracked it before listing it here. So be it, and I understand it. But I digress... Joey may or may not have seen the discussion of whether or not it was a PGX book but he bought it. He received it. He knew it was in a PGX holder when he received it. If he had an issue with the transaction then here is where he should have said something. But he did not make an issue of it. So at this point in the transaction there has been no issue with the fact that the book was sold in a PGX holder. That is very important as far as I'm concerned. Say it out loud...at this point in the transaction there is no issue with the PGX slab.

 

So joey cracks it out of the PGX holder. It is now NOT A PGX BOOK. So the problems start after it is no longer in a PGX holder. The issues with Trey selling this comic book begin when the book is no longer a PGX book. The problem is not about grade. The problem is not about payment. The problem is not about service. And most importantly, the problem is not about PGX. The whole problem is a misunderstanding about feedback.

Silliest mess I ever saw. At least that's how I see it.

 

At this point there is no issue with the PGX slab? Between the buyer and seller yes. Between the seller and the boards the whole problem is being a PGX slab. Rule broken. Case closed. The only debate for me is if there are multiple offenses.

[ashsaytr]

My on this.

 

Trey sold a PGX book without revealing it.

 

Joey bought the book and received it in the slab.

 

Joey decided to remove the book from the slab to "enjoy at some future time".

 

After the subsequent issues regarding feedback etc already outlined, nominations for the PL begin. Trey nominates Joey and Joey nominates Trey.

 

Had Joey NOT taken the book out of the slab, had he returned it for a refund on the basis it was a PGX book THAT would be a valid case. But he accepted the book and unslabbed it for his own use.

 

Both sides here have some culpability.

(thumbs u

 

(thumbs u

 

This may be best served by Arch making a decision for strike(s) if he deems so.

(thumbs u

If being stupid enough to buy a book from Trey is enough fodder to add me to the PL feel free to do so.

I personally don't think either of you should be probated. You both knew it was a PGX book.

Joey didn't know it was a PGX book until he opened the package. Trey knew it from the moment it was posted for sale.

My opinion...and I'm sure I will get flack for it...

Trey offered a book with a grade. It happened to be in a PGX holder but that was not necessarily apparent from the scans nor from his listing or description. Others determined it was PGX before the sale because the scan showed the inner well. I understand that selling PGX books is against the rules here on the boards. I have always held the opinion that a comic is a comic. The label is not the comic. In my mind, as long as the grading companies opinion is not used to sell the book then no harm. But according to rules Trey should have cracked it before listing it here. So be it, and I understand it. But I digress... Joey may or may not have seen the discussion of whether or not it was a PGX book but he bought it. He received it. He knew it was in a PGX holder when he received it. If he had an issue with the transaction then here is where he should have said something. But he did not make an issue of it. So at this point in the transaction there has been no issue with the fact that the book was sold in a PGX holder. That is very important as far as I'm concerned. Say it out loud...at this point in the transaction there is no issue with the PGX slab.

 

So joey cracks it out of the PGX holder. It is now NOT A PGX BOOK. So the problems start after it is no longer in a PGX holder. The issues with Trey selling this comic book begin when the book is no longer a PGX book. The problem is not about grade. The problem is not about payment. The problem is not about service. And most importantly, the problem is not about PGX. The whole problem is a misunderstanding about feedback.

Silliest mess I ever saw. At least that's how I see it.

 

At this point there is no issue with the PGX slab? Between the buyer and seller yes. Between the seller and the boards the whole problem is being a PGX slab. Rule broken. Case closed. The only debate for me is if there are multiple offenses.

Edited November 19, 2011 by ashsaytr

[ashsaytr]

hmmm no icon... i agree~

[MrBedrock]

At this point there is no issue with the PGX slab? Between the buyer and seller yes. Between the seller and the boards the whole problem is being a PGX slab. Rule broken. Case closed. The only debate for me is if there are multiple offenses.

He did break a rule. And apparently a very important rule. So important that it supercedes any problem between buyer and seller.

But is the probation list for the protection of the buyers and sellers, or is it for the protection of the boards?

[N/A]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[divad]

Among all of his other prior sales transgressions . . .

[N/A]

What are the prior transgressions. The discussion should be HOS if he's a repeat offender.

[divad]

People like "Trey Cannon" who have been caught lying, cheating and taking advantage of fellow boardies not once, not twice but three times should be banned from the boards.

 

I saw him lie in the selling thread, I don't "think" I saw him lie, I clearly remember him answering the question if the book was a PGX book with "The book is not slabbed, don't ask any more questions if you are not interested in buying".

 

If this was a real market place instead of a virtual one, he would have been thrown out on his a long time ago never mind how "slow" or mentally inefficient he is.

 

Plus of course the facts that he posted private PMs in various threads. I've seen the mods give out strikes just for that. But then again I'm sure somebody will chime in and tell me that isn't relevant to the Probation list and we can't hold that into account. But I'm still positive that everyone who has been following this knows deep down inside that Trey Cannon is bad news, that he has a history of deception and will try to deceive again.

 

Branget,

 

Haven't you been following the whole saga?

[buttock]

I think Arch should just give Trey a custom title to the effect of:

 

"This person is mentally handicapped. Deal with him at your own risk."

 

... and leave it at that.

 

Being upset at Trey for violating rules is like getting mad at your new puppy for wizzing on the floor. He isn't capable of understanding that he's doing wrong.

[MrBedrock]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Oh but they are mutually exclusive. The sales forum is a place provided by CGC for buyers and sellers to interact and buy and sell. It has specific rules. The rest of the boards are where we all get to express opinion. It is already a matter of fact that opinions expressed in the sales forum can't cross the line of thread krapping. There is an entirely different etiquette to the sales forum. That etiquette is there to help buyers and sellers. So if there is no issue between buyer and seller the issue must be between the seller and the boards. That, to me treads the line of a popularity contest. Joey is one of the most beloved board members. He is certainly one of my favorite guys around here. Trey, on the other hand, is not so highly regarded. He has brought much of the disdain upon himself with some of his past actions. Let's face it, he's a knucklehead. But in this instance it seems to me there is a ton of piling on for something which, in hindsight, was a fully consummated and satisfactory transaction for both parties.

[Speedy-D]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Oh but they are mutually exclusive. The sales forum is a place provided by CGC for buyers and sellers to interact and buy and sell. It has specific rules. The rest of the boards are where we all get to express opinion. It is already a matter of fact that opinions expressed in the sales forum can't cross the line of thread krapping. There is an entirely different etiquette to the sales forum. That etiquette is there to help buyers and sellers. So if there is no issue between buyer and seller the issue must be between the seller and the boards. That, to me treads the line of a popularity contest. Joey is one of the most beloved board members. He is certainly one of my favorite guys around here. Trey, on the other hand, is not so highly regarded. He has brought much of the disdain upon himself with some of his past actions. Let's face it, he's a knucklehead. But in this instance it seems to me there is a ton of piling on for something which, in hindsight, was a fully consummated and satisfactory transaction for both parties.

1. joeypost was willing to let it slide. That's not exactly a satisfactory transaction.

 

2. the PL is not here just to punish folks, or even just to make sure that a specific transaction ends well. Its greatest value is as a warning to others not to deal with the "knuckleheads." Its most definitely a tool for the community.

[N/A]

People like "Trey Cannon" who have been caught lying, cheating and taking advantage of fellow boardies not once, not twice but three times should be banned from the boards.

 

I saw him lie in the selling thread, I don't "think" I saw him lie, I clearly remember him answering the question if the book was a PGX book with "The book is not slabbed, don't ask any more questions if you are not interested in buying".

 

If this was a real market place instead of a virtual one, he would have been thrown out on his a long time ago never mind how "slow" or mentally inefficient he is.

 

Plus of course the facts that he posted private PMs in various threads. I've seen the mods give out strikes just for that. But then again I'm sure somebody will chime in and tell me that isn't relevant to the Probation list and we can't hold that into account. But I'm still positive that everyone who has been following this knows deep down inside that Trey Cannon is bad news, that he has a history of deception and will try to deceive again.

 

Branget,

 

Haven't you been following the whole saga?

 

I've only seen one other example so far in this discussion and no details of other transgressions.

[N/A]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Oh but they are mutually exclusive. The sales forum is a place provided by CGC for buyers and sellers to interact and buy and sell. It has specific rules. The rest of the boards are where we all get to express opinion. It is already a matter of fact that opinions expressed in the sales forum can't cross the line of thread krapping. There is an entirely different etiquette to the sales forum. That etiquette is there to help buyers and sellers. So if there is no issue between buyer and seller the issue must be between the seller and the boards. That, to me treads the line of a popularity contest. Joey is one of the most beloved board members. He is certainly one of my favorite guys around here. Trey, on the other hand, is not so highly regarded. He has brought much of the disdain upon himself with some of his past actions. Let's face it, he's a knucklehead. But in this instance it seems to me there is a ton of piling on for something which, in hindsight, was a fully consummated and satisfactory transaction for both parties.

1. joeypost was willing to let it slide. That's not exactly a satisfactory transaction.

 

2. the PL is not here just to punish folks, or even just to make sure that a specific transaction ends well. Its greatest value is as a warning to others not to deal with the "knuckleheads." Its most definitely a tool for the community.

 

In protecting the community it protects the buyers/sellers making the two by definition not mutually exclusive. (thumbs u

 

[Bosco685]

1. joeypost was willing to let it slide. That's not exactly a satisfactory transaction.

 

2. the PL is not here just to punish folks, or even just to make sure that a specific transaction ends well. Its greatest value is as a warning to others not to deal with the "knuckleheads." Its most definitely a tool for the community.

But if a buyer allows someone to just randomly sell PGX books without even a mention to the community to warn them of this, isn't that wrong too?

 

What type of standard are we communicating if selling PGX books is just a seller problem, and not the buyers who pay and move along without a word of warning?

 

But I do agree with the probation list serving as a word of warning, as folks can still buy and sell via PM without anyone knowing but the parties involved. It is up to those people to utilize this community reference to protect themselves.

[joeypost]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Oh but they are mutually exclusive. The sales forum is a place provided by CGC for buyers and sellers to interact and buy and sell. It has specific rules. The rest of the boards are where we all get to express opinion. It is already a matter of fact that opinions expressed in the sales forum can't cross the line of thread krapping. There is an entirely different etiquette to the sales forum. That etiquette is there to help buyers and sellers. So if there is no issue between buyer and seller the issue must be between the seller and the boards. That, to me treads the line of a popularity contest. Joey is one of the most beloved board members. He is certainly one of my favorite guys around here. Trey, on the other hand, is not so highly regarded. He has brought much of the disdain upon himself with some of his past actions. Let's face it, he's a knucklehead. But in this instance it seems to me there is a ton of piling on for something which, in hindsight, was a fully consummated and satisfactory transaction for both parties.

 

Richard,

 

I consider you to be one of the hobbies good guys. Always level headed and easy to deal with. I see your line of reasoning, I truly do and if it I had a do over I would out him the second I saw the PGX slab. Despite what has happened I am not one to pile on anyone. I have been the brunt of attacks in the past due to what I do.

This incident was an accumulation of things rather than my response to his feedback request.

 

I thought it rather forward to ask for feedback on a PGX book. He denied it was in a PGX slab in the sales thread. I took him for his word. I shoudl have known something was up when he asked me if I wanted to keep it in the slab when he shipped it. I said to do so for the extra protection. All this time I was assuming it was a CGC slab, Given his selling history I figured he would not want to attract that kind of attention again. I was wrong.

 

When I received it I cracked it out, read it and tossed it in a mylite. I really forgot about the whole thing until he asked for positive feedback. Even then I was not going to out him (again 100% my fault). I asked a few forum members who I respect on their opinion. They reminded me of all the other junk he had tried to pull and I then realised this was strike three.

 

In the end I took into consideration his attitude about the whole transaction (even how he threw everyone else under the bus who had listed PGX books in the past, argued over the grade and lied in his sales thread), the fact it was a PGX case, the fact this was the third time and I had an obligation to the boards. I knew I would get grief, I expected it because I did not act right away, and truth be told none of this would have happened if he did not remind me when asking for feedback.

 

So please believe me when I say it was not just about feedback.

[Spiderturtle]

seems pretty simple to me-Trey is not a person I would want to deal with. Deception with pgx slab in the sales thread then the big meltdown. Enough reason for me to avoid this person

[Green]

What are the prior transgressions. The discussion should be HOS if he's a repeat offender.

Long story short= An lcs near trey had a lot of marvel keys for sale, Jim 83 Tos 39 etc. Trey took pics of them and 'sold' them on the forums with the hopes of taking the cash and getting a good deal on the lot. It was a very classic epic fail, i wish i could find the threads.

 

Roy 'bought' the jim 83 iirc. Im sure he knows the details better than i

[Spiderturtle]

What are the prior transgressions. The discussion should be HOS if he's a repeat offender.

Long story short= An lcs near trey had a lot of marvel keys for sale, Jim 83 Tos 39 etc. Trey took pics of them and 'sold' them on the forums with the hopes of taking the cash and getting a good deal on the lot. It was a very classic epic fail, i wish i could find the threads.

 

Roy 'bought' the jim 83 iirc. Im sure he knows the details better than i

 

that sound about right, sometime in 09 if i remember correctly

[Mr.Diggler]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.